Can a state break away from the Union and declare independence?

[SSSnail]

In which scenario can a state such as California or Texas break away from the Union? These states are large enough and are economically independent, and could potentially become nations. Hypothetically, under what circumstances will this happen?

Since we could gain new territories and add to the Union, can the reverse be true?

 

[Amused]

It was tried once. Lots of people died.

 

[illusion88]

Absolutly. But why would you want to?

 

[zeruty]

Basically... this is one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment. If a statewide militia were able to fend off the US military, that is one way for it to happen.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

under what circumstances will this happen?

when pigs fly.

 

[leftyman]

Originally posted by: Amused
It was tried once. Lots of people died.

 

[FoBoT]

civil war?

heard of it?

 

[K1052]

Highly unlikely it will ever happen again.

The Civil War and the intervening 150 years have pretty much wiped out (with a few local exceptions) how people used to identify as citizens of their respective states.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Hypothetically, under what circumstances will this happen?

When the Mexican population in CA reaches 83.5%

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Hypothetically, under what circumstances will this happen?

When the Mexican population in CA reaches 83.5%

So around March 2008?

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: zeruty
Basically... this is one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment. If a statewide militia were able to fend off the US military, that is one way for it to happen.

That doesn't make any sense. The 2nd Amendment is part of the United States Constitution, it's purpose is the defense of the Union, not insurrection against itself.

 

[dainthomas]

North Dakota lost their chance when they were the world's third largest nuclear power.

 

[Fayd]

the constitution doesnt have any provisions for states to leave, but doesnt exclusively forbid them from leaving either.

basically, it comes down to whether or not a state can raise an army that would keep the US military from overrunning it. (not likely...)

 

[amddude]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: zeruty
Basically... this is one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment. If a statewide militia were able to fend off the US military, that is one way for it to happen.

That doesn't make any sense. The 2nd Amendment is part of the United States Constitution, it's purpose is the defense of the Union, not insurrection against itself.

That is correct. It's also worth noting though, MANY states have the second amendment written into their state constitutions as well (although not necessarily AS an amendment).

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: dainthomas
North Dakota lost their chance when they were the world's third largest nuclear power.

Lol, secession through nuclear warfare sounds like a terrible idea

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Amused
It was tried once. Lots of people died.

 

[JayMassive]

Texas and Hawaii were already their own nations, but found it better to be part of the group.

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: zeruty
Basically... this is one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment. If a statewide militia were able to fend off the US military, that is one way for it to happen.

That doesn't make any sense. The 2nd Amendment is part of the United States Constitution, it's purpose is the defense of the Union, not insurrection against itself.

actually, that's one of the justifications behind the second amendment. it's supposed to be a check against the government's power, that if the government got too powerful and corrupt, the people are supposed to rise up and replace it.

i dont have the exact quote on me, but there is one i know of at least from Thomas Jefferson that (paraphrased) says exactly that.

 

[Maleficus]

Texas can!

 

[Geocentricity]

Originally posted by: JayMassive
Texas and Hawaii were already their own nations, but found it better to be part of the group.

Didn't Hawaii have no choice?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Amused
It was tried once. Lots of people died.

Hah, yeah.

And I wouldn't say California and Texas are economically independent. Every state benefits from being a part of the whole.

 

[crystal]

When there are major disasters, whether natural or man make, where the federal government fails to stablize the situation at all levels, you might see an area (not necessary follow the current states borders) declares themselves as an indepent nation.

 

[buzzsaw13]

Originally posted by: Geocentricity

Originally posted by: JayMassive
Texas and Hawaii were already their own nations, but found it better to be part of the group.

Didn't Hawaii have no choice?

I believe Hawaii was annexed by the US, against their own will.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Hypothetically, under what circumstances will this happen?

The same circumstances as what caused the first Civil War: Having their economic and social goals shut out at the federal level to the point where it becomes more advantageous to go at it alone than stick with the union.

In real-world terms, the single leading concern I'd see for the U.S. in which the above could occur would be the abolition of the electoral college system. You go to the majority vote system when voting for a President, and the dominance of a few states over the rest will quickly have the situation degenerate.

 

[Linflas]

Last time we in Virginia tried it we lost about 1/3 of our territory.