Camcorder?

[AliasX]

I am looking for a camcorder because I will be doing some traveling and want to get some footage. I plan on compiling the footage in FinalCut, which I have much experience with. My goal is for the video to be a serious one, not some shaky hand, home video.

Not only can I not afford my ideal camera, but it is also pretty cumbersome, and traveling with it might be difficult, so that is why I lowered my sights to camcorders. I want the quality to be pretty damn good, I will be compiling it into a video and I want that video to shine when people play it on their TV's. Of course, all of this good quality is within budget. $300 is around what I want to be spending, more than that and there better be some significant improvements.

I am pretty cool with just about any brand, but where my knowledge is lacking is in formats. The high-end cameras that I am used to using are Mini-DV. The quality is broadcast quality, even though the MiniDV's don't fit too much time. The camcorders that record directly to DVD seem like something more appealing to those shakey hand lets record my babies life people, rather than the "I'm making a documentary-type video" people. As far as the other formats, I know nothing.

I am pretty set to look for a $300 MiniDV Camcorder with decent reviews, but I really want to know the advantages and disadvantages of MiniDV and other recording formats as that might critically change my descision.

Thanks for reading, hopefully I will get some answers

 

[FireChicken]

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.php

 

[gsellis]

You will have to use FireChicken's link and decide for yourself. I have to let you know that your expectations, aspirations, and budget are not in sync.

1) - SD MiniDV is the minimum for film, documentary, or direct to Disc if you want "the quality to be pretty damn good."

2) - $300 is low end. The cheapest mini-DVs are at $250. The absolutely lowest I would go is a Panasonic GS300. But there are tradeoffs.

3) - A counterpoint of 1 and 2 are that in film making, it is presentation and crafting, so even VHS would work. BUT, it must be compelling. Quality materials do not always make quality results, but the make getting there much easier.

4) - "Film" look and feel is about a whole list of criteria. You have depth of field, audio, lighting, color, and frame rate. Color is probably not as important if handled correctly with the cases being "Saving Private Ryan", "The Matrix", etc., where the color has been tweaked in post (I can use Magic Bullet to simulate many of these.)

The camera you have must give you a good depth of field, which is poor on most consumer cameras because the smaller the chip, the harder it is to get DOF. Frame rate (which I dislike the whole 24p "film look" thing) gives the feeling of film if at 24p. This can be done in post, but is always better if done in shooting. Not a requirement (there have been features shot in 30i - March of the Penguins is one I know of using Sony VX2100s.)

Lighting is a potential issue. Low-end cameras usually have very poor light sensitivity. As available light goes down, noise is introduced as the gain is turned up. Either you need to make sure you shoot well lit (possibly with a light kit) or get a camera to compensate. That is why I shoot with a VX2100 as it is king in low light.

Sound is your killer. Video without good audio will kill you. Most comsumer cams have very cheap audio that will even pickup the tape mechanism humm. Many mfgrs are actually removing Mic In/Headphone out on consumer cameras (pros could buy consumer HDV cameras if they had it as they are good enough for some stuff). That means you may need to consider getting something like a iRiver 795/895 and a good shotgun mic or lav mic (Rhodes Videomic gets thumbs up for general use).

5) - If you are shooting handheld, Optical Image Stabilization is a must. If it is moving and you do not want shaky at all, you may even need to go to a handheld stabilizer like a Steadicam Merlin or Glidecam 2000. If it is shots longer than 3 minutes, you need to go to a vest (cheapest in on that is the Indicam). Unfortunately, OIS does not showup until the $500 range from the cameras I know (the GS300).

What I would do... Look at the review for the Panasonic GS400. See if you can find a GS400 on Ebay, etc. That might be your best camera for doing an indie project. I think it has mic in. I know it is OIS, has 3 CCDs for great color, has good resolution and pretty good light handling. If you plan on handling promotion too, read this thread at DVInfo. Buy the Mark Steven Bosko book mentioned in the thread (I did and am reading it). There are some great tips there too through the DVInfo forums.

 

[xfile]

My vote is for either the Panny GS300 or 500. (I have the 500)

 

[AliasX]

Thanks for the great info guys

 

[AliasX]

The PV-GS400 appears to be more expensive than the PV-GS500 everywhere I have looked, and is even OOS at some stores. On ebay it is just about the same as in store. Because the PV-GS500 is cheaper than the PV-GS400, are there any notable differences? And what is the drop when you go to the extremely cheap PV-GS300?

Right now I am considering either the PV-GS500, PV-GS400, or PV-GS300. I am trying to compare price vs. performance...

Taking newegg and amazon as our examples,
PV-GS500:
Amazon: $740
Newegg: $730

PV-GS400
Amazon: Notify when available
Newegg: Unavailable
Ebay: $800 (auctions still have days left)

PV-GS300
Amazon: $440
Newegg: $499

So as you can see there are major price differences. The PV-GS400 seems like it will be out of my budget. The More recent PV-GS500 I have heard lacks some of the 400's features, but the price is better, and I might be able to crack down that price on ebay. The PV-GS300 is the cheapest of all, so my instincts tell me it must be stripped.

Aside from wanted to know the pros and cons of these three cameras, what is the deal with the 12x optical zoom? Looking at even the worst camcorders told me that 12x isn't too far up the scale, can someone enlighten me?

 

[FireChicken]

The GS 400 is an older model and is pretty hard to find as you can see. Seems like you are set on the pannys which is a great choice I have the GS 150 which as EIS. Definately go for the ones with OIS as EIS will degrade the image quality when enabled. Read the reviews on the the site I posted above. There is a ton of info on the comcorders.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/d/Reviews&...r&level_c=Panasonic&level_d=MiniDV.htm

or you can go here too

http://www.pana3ccduser.com/

all about panasonic camcorders. There are many people there asking the same questions as you. If you do a search you might come up with with a thread GS 300 vs GS 500 or somthing like that.