Calling on BMW 8 series owners / ex-owners

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
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I am a BIG 8 series fan, and I am thinking about grabbing one of those awesome machines in the very near future (probably an 840ci in less than 1 year or so). I know a machine like that has a downside to it which is it's maintenance.

So if you own one or used to own one , what is your input on that?

Thanks
DarkThinker
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
1
81
Out of warranty BMW's are very costly to maintain, especially a vehicle like the old 8. I share your love for the car, but this is not a wise move unless you have a spare car, a ton of idle money and a mechanic that knows their way around the car.
 

Allanv

Senior member
May 29, 2001
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BMW's are like any other car to maintain unless you take them to the stealers, do you have such places that deal in car parts.

99% of BMW parts are rebranded off the shelf stuff. Do what i do if you cant see it then auto part it.

if its on the outside and visable then you have to get genuine
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
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I appreciate the feedback, I guess you guys have just echoed my fears here :(

It's just that I have always dreamed of getting my hands on an 8-series, when I was a kid I stumbled across an early 90's BMW catalog that had an 850CSI in it, and I couldn't since then take it off my mind.

I don't know people who know there way around car issues, all I know is a bunch of cunning mechanics here and there, but no one I can trust with such piece of work.

I'll need to put more thought into my idea (bad idea).

Meanwhile, take a look at this graphics rendering of an 850CSI that I found on the net, this is how I have always imagined mine to be like, oh decesions decesions ...


DarkThinker
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
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I always thought the 8-series were underrated aesthetically - they are certainly handsomer than the current 6-series IMO. By all accounts they're nothing special to drive, though.
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
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Originally posted by: DonVito
I always thought the 8-series were underrated aesthetically - they are certainly handsomer than the current 6-series IMO. By all accounts they're nothing special to drive, though.


Well to explain my admiration of the 8 series (850CSI especially), the 8 series is BMW in a nutshell, it embodies every aspect of the company itself plus it's so full of late 80's early 90's spirit it was one hell of a car era!
 

Black88GTA

Diamond Member
Sep 9, 2003
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I have one. 1994 840Ci, with about 90k on it now - I picked it up in August.

Maintenance hasn't been too bad on mine yet, although parts (when needed) are quite expensive compared to other cars. The figure I heard regarding the 8 series is to figure on about $1 - 2k a year in maintenance. So far, I've had to replace the fuel pump ($460 for the part alone) and valve cover gaskets.

Driving it year round in areas that get below freezing sometimes sucks. Reason being, the windows drop about 1/4 inch each time you open the doors, and go back up again when you close them, sealing the doors shut. However, this sucks if your windows happen to be frozen shut - you can't get in until you unstick them with a credit card.

As you might expect, it's a gas guzzler. I drive mine in the S4 mode around town, and get usually 12 - 14 MPG. It's better if you drive it in ED (economy) mode, but the car drives like crap on that setting, IMO.

This car gets tons of attention at gas stations, parking lots, etc...people approach me and ask questions or make comments about it all the time.

The 8-series forum on Roadfly is hands-down the best E31 forum on the net. Do some reading on there, everyone is very helpful and the board has saved me a LOT of $$$ on parts so far. There is one dealer that pretty much everyone on the board goes to for parts that is friendly with the 8-series community and offers a substantial discount for board members...and, there is usually someone parting a car out that can get you a used part cheap.

PM me if you have any specific questions, and I'll try my best to answer.
 

V00DOO

Diamond Member
Dec 2, 2000
3,817
2
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Don't buy a BMW 8 series unless you have deep pockets. I own a E39 5 series and they cost a lot to maintain. I can't even phantom what a 8 series would cost to maintain. If you do decide to go with the 8 series, I highly recommend you go and read all that you can at various BMW forums before buying so you know what you getting yourself into.
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
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Originally posted by: Black88GTA
I have one. 1994 840Ci, with about 90k on it now - I picked it up in August.

Maintenance hasn't been too bad on mine yet, although parts (when needed) are quite expensive compared to other cars. The figure I heard regarding the 8 series is to figure on about $1 - 2k a year in maintenance. So far, I've had to replace the fuel pump ($460 for the part alone) and valve cover gaskets.

Driving it year round in areas that get below freezing sometimes sucks. Reason being, the windows drop about 1/4 inch each time you open the doors, and go back up again when you close them, sealing the doors shut. However, this sucks if your windows happen to be frozen shut - you can't get in until you unstick them with a credit card.

As you might expect, it's a gas guzzler. I drive mine in the S4 mode around town, and get usually 12 - 14 MPG. It's better if you drive it in ED (economy) mode, but the car drives like crap on that setting, IMO.

This car gets tons of attention at gas stations, parking lots, etc...people approach me and ask questions or make comments about it all the time.

The 8-series forum on Roadfly is hands-down the best E31 forum on the net. Do some reading on there, everyone is very helpful and the board has saved me a LOT of $$$ on parts so far. There is one dealer that pretty much everyone on the board goes to for parts that is friendly with the 8-series community and offers a substantial discount for board members...and, there is usually someone parting a car out that can get you a used part cheap.

PM me if you have any specific questions, and I'll try my best to answer.

Very nice, thanks for the info mate, that was very helpful. I have to say, I expected the 840Ci to have a bit better gas mileage, How much do you get in Economy mode? Is it a manual or AT?

Do you have any regrets about this car so far?

Thanks
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
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Originally posted by: V00DOO
Don't buy a BMW 8 series unless you have deep pockets. I own a E39 5 series and they cost a lot to maintain. I can't even phantom what a 8 series would cost to maintain. If you do decide to go with the 8 series, I highly recommend you go and read all that you can at various BMW forums before buying so you know what you getting yourself into.

That's neat, what year?
 

Black88GTA

Diamond Member
Sep 9, 2003
3,430
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Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Originally posted by: Black88GTA
I have one. 1994 840Ci, with about 90k on it now - I picked it up in August.

Maintenance hasn't been too bad on mine yet, although parts (when needed) are quite expensive compared to other cars. The figure I heard regarding the 8 series is to figure on about $1 - 2k a year in maintenance. So far, I've had to replace the fuel pump ($460 for the part alone) and valve cover gaskets.

Driving it year round in areas that get below freezing sometimes sucks. Reason being, the windows drop about 1/4 inch each time you open the doors, and go back up again when you close them, sealing the doors shut. However, this sucks if your windows happen to be frozen shut - you can't get in until you unstick them with a credit card.

As you might expect, it's a gas guzzler. I drive mine in the S4 mode around town, and get usually 12 - 14 MPG. It's better if you drive it in ED (economy) mode, but the car drives like crap on that setting, IMO.

This car gets tons of attention at gas stations, parking lots, etc...people approach me and ask questions or make comments about it all the time.

The 8-series forum on Roadfly is hands-down the best E31 forum on the net. Do some reading on there, everyone is very helpful and the board has saved me a LOT of $$$ on parts so far. There is one dealer that pretty much everyone on the board goes to for parts that is friendly with the 8-series community and offers a substantial discount for board members...and, there is usually someone parting a car out that can get you a used part cheap.

PM me if you have any specific questions, and I'll try my best to answer.

Very nice, thanks for the info mate, that was very helpful. I have to say, I expected the 840Ci to have a bit better gas mileage, How much do you get in Economy mode? Is it a manual or AT?

Do you have any regrets about this car so far?

Thanks

Well, to be honest, I have a bit of a lead foot. :) And those numbers are for in-town driving. On the expressway in economy mode, I get a pretty consistent 20 - 22 MPG.

My car is an automatic - there were very very few 840s produced with a manual. IOW, you will not find one anywhere - and if you somehow do manage to find one, it will be $$$$$. If you want a manual, pretty much your only option is to get the V-12 850, and even those are not that common with a 6 speed. I think people have gotten an auto 840 and swapped the trans with a manual from a 5 series, but this would be an expensive project.

I have no regrets at all about it so far...but I got one that was well cared for and maintained. Aside from that, I researched beforehand and knew what I was getting into - which you should do as well, if you are serious about this. Do your homework on specific cars you are looking at. If you get a neglected one, it can be a horrible money pit.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
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Originally posted by: V00DOO
I can't even phantom...
I can't fathom how so many people can think that the saying is "can't phantom". "Can't phantom" makes no sense...

To the OP, if you're handy and have the space, time, and inclination to get your hands dirty there's no reason to avoid the car. There are some trouble areas (I seem to recall once hearing that the automatics aren't good for much more than 150,000 miles, but I can't validate that), but any car is going to have its own problem areas and if you can handle the ups and downs, I say go for it. But do budget about $2K/year for repairs just in case.

ZV
 

Ronin

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Mar 3, 2001
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Didn't the 8 series have horrible electric problems, and that's one of the reasons they stopped selling them? I personally found the 8 Series to be a very sharp car (it's on my list of cars to own that I haven't yet), but my dim recollection of those problems weighs heavily.
 

Black88GTA

Diamond Member
Sep 9, 2003
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Originally posted by: Ronin
Didn't the 8 series have horrible electric problems, and that's one of the reasons they stopped selling them? I personally found the 8 Series to be a very sharp car (it's on my list of cars to own that I haven't yet), but my dim recollection of those problems weighs heavily.

They stopped selling them because they weren't making money for BMW. The 8 series was produced virtually unchanged from 1990 - 1998, and was past due for a freshening-up when it was killed. The price tag kept many people away ($85k+ in 1990s dollars) and many of those that did have the money spent it on other cars in that price range that simply outperformed it.

I haven't heard anything about bad electronics (nor have I experienced any problems) and I have been reading boards about this car for a while. Although, there is a problem with the MID (trip computers) constantly having pixels go out.

I guess it could seem that way though...one thing about this car is that it has a very complex electrical system. There are SO many little electronic gadgets and features on the car that have the potential to go bad...the car has such an extensive electrical system that it requires two batteries to operate. Some of the J-spec cars even came with two alternators.

But, if the batteries get even a little low / worn out, the car will display all sorts of bizarre electrical gremlins that most people wouldn't think could be caused by bad batteries...
 

AStar617

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2002
4,983
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'92 525i owner here.

Be extremely careful when shopping for any '94-'95 8-cylinder BMW (530i/540i/740i/840ci). The problem comes from BMW's use of their "Nikasil" (Nickel-Aluminum-Silicon) engine block alloy. The high sulfur content in US gasoline reacted to the nickel in the block causing combustion chamber leakdown. At best this would cause a notably rough idle, and at worst stalling and failure to start altogether. BMW issued their largest recall ever to solve the problem--something like 6 years/80k miles(!)--and allowed free leakdown testing at BMW dealerships. If your BMW failed the test, you got a new engine block free of charge. The new blocks used "Alusil" (Aluminum / Silicon) to solve the problem.

I went shopping for a 540i in early '01, right on the brink of the recall cutoff. Thankfully, I did my homework beforehand. After asking several private sellers and used car dealers if a leakdown test had been performed, and getting blank stares in return, I decided my investment was wiser spent on a six-cylinder so as not to be stuck with a $7,000 block swap that wouldn't be covered by any warranty.

In the case of your 840ci, just get a '96 or later and you should be all set. If you do find a deal on a pre-'96, insist on documented proof of an Alusil block swap, or walk. Even Nikasil blocks that passed muster did so over 5 years ago--there's no guarantee that the problem won't arise at any point, and fall squarely in your lap.

I also second all suggestions to head to Roadfly's forums (formerly Bimmer.org). Pretty much the end-all of user-to-user BMW info online.

Hope that helps...
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
I have had an M3.
Currently GF drives a new 3-series and I have an E53 X5.

Verdict? BMW have problems. Repairs = $$$
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,603
13,981
146
I've owned Bimmers for over 30 years, and I can personally attest to the fact that BMW = Break My Wallet... ;)
I love the cars, and when I could do my own work, they were affordable. ( have an excellent parts supplier), however, now that I have to farm almost everything out to a shop...well, my current E23 7er is gonna be my last one.
OP, the 8's have been notorious for years for electrical issues. Some minor, some not so minor. For those who know enough to do their own repairs, maybe not so horrible, but if you aren't well versed in repariing them...with electrical shop rates pushing over $100/hour...they can get expensive...FAST...even the 7's have had their share of electrical gremlins...HVAC sword, LKM and mustard relay solder joints, etc...just be aware of the possibility of problems...NOT all have been cursed with gremlins, but enough to earn a reputation...
But...hella sleek cars...
Oh, be aware, that 850...V-12 motor...basically 2 inline 6's bolted to a common crankshaft...potential for major headaches if it wasn't maintained properly by the previous owner(s) and can still be a PITA even if it was...
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
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I can't thank you guys enough for the info other wise I would have taking a plunge for a fixer, I had no idea about %75 of the issues raised here! Now since we have some hardcore BMW owners in here, I have some questions I would like to have answered if no one minds:

1- Since I know BMW 8 series might be a bit far fetched in terms of the issues mentioned above, my backup plan is my 2nd favorite BMW, the E39, I don't think I want to go with an M5 as it's a bit too much for what I want, but I am definitely looking at a 2003 540i 6 speed manual black on black, you know the monster ;), how about that one, I see a lot of them 2nd hand and a good deal of them below 30K / 50k certified + warranty, what are the thoughts about those ones?

2- I have always been curious about this, but did anyone ever drop a previous generation M5 engine into an 8-series? Is it possible? Would create one hell of a car if it is!

Thanks
DarkThinker
 

AStar617

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2002
4,983
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0
The E39 540i is arguably the most perfect realization of the sport luxury sedan, by many accounts. If I didn't end up buying my current home rather unexpectedly, I'd own one a Steptronic right now instead of my current E34. :beer:

One thing to point out: it's not specifically the 8, all of these cars will require higher than average upkeep costs. Between consumables like my Redline synthetic oil, premium fuel, appropriate tires, plus brake rotors that seem to wear nearly as fast as the pads--and nevermind when something actually breaks--it's always the total cost of ownership that gets you in the end. But almost every car save a handful in the bland Camry/Accord range will sound like a horror story if asked to point out every known problem with them. Just know what you're getting yourself into. It's a very rewarding experience, but you gotta pay to play ;)

Some other general BMW gotchas, not specific to any model:

- The interior leather dye (and in some cases, the leather itself) tends to wear quite easily. IIRC, BMW makes touch up kits for guaranteed color matching, but actual cracks/rips/holes in the surfaces can be more troublesome.

- You might be confused to realize that many modern automatic BMWs (and possibly older ones?) don't have a transmission fluid dipstick under the hood. This is because BMW's "lifetime transmissions" are sealed; both the fill and drain plugs are under the vehicle and require it to be on a lift to access. BMW dealers will not replace your transmission fluid, regardless of your service history. This does not mean that they have some magical ATF fluid that will make your gearbox last forever, or that they guarantee anything like that. Take your car to a reputable tranny shop and get the fluid changed outside the dealer every 60k, the way you would on any other vehicle.

- BMW used to be good about prewiring their cars for options. Adding a 6-disc Pioneer changer, factory alarm, or car cellular phone (heh) to any E34 like mine is as easy as connecting a harness and maybe a few screwdriver turns. However, if you want navigation, buy your car with it. None of the newer nav-capable cars are prewired for it unless it's ordered as an option. I have the BMW-official procedure followed by dealers for when customers want to retrofit a car with nav. It's not pretty, something like 8-10 hours for 2 people to do. The good news is, upgrading your existing BMW nav unit from one level to another (Mk I thru Mk IV) is as easy as stated above--disconnect the old brain and head unit/bezel, and connect the new ones.

- Retrofitting factory LED tail lights and HID headlights on these can also be problematic due to improper application of seals... these are some more items that are better purchased with the vehicle.

- Keep up to date with recommended service intervals. Inspection I and II aren't cheap, but hurt much less if you are handy and have a decent set of metric tools.

Regarding the S62-powered E31, it should be a piece of cake considering this engine was successfully shoehorned into an E30 M3 :) Another fun fact: while a true M8 never made it past the test mule prototype stage, guess where a future evolution of its S70 engine ended up? :D A detuned version is found in the 850CSi--in fact, the original paperwork (and VIN decoding) identify every 850CSi as an "M8".

But I digress. :)
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
2,822
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Originally posted by: AStar617
The E39 540i is arguably the most perfect realization of the sport luxury sedan, by many accounts. If I didn't end up buying my current home rather unexpectedly, I'd own one a Steptronic right now instead of my current E34. :beer:

One thing to point out: it's not specifically the 8, all of these cars will require higher than average upkeep costs. Between consumables like my Redline synthetic oil, premium fuel, appropriate tires, plus brake rotors that seem to wear nearly as fast as the pads--and nevermind when something actually breaks--it's always the total cost of ownership that gets you in the end. But almost every car save a handful in the bland Camry/Accord range will sound like a horror story if asked to point out every known problem with them. Just know what you're getting yourself into. It's a very rewarding experience, but you gotta pay to play ;)

Some other general BMW gotchas, not specific to any model:

- The interior leather dye (and in some cases, the leather itself) tends to wear quite easily. IIRC, BMW makes touch up kits for guaranteed color matching, but actual cracks/rips/holes in the surfaces can be more troublesome.

- You might be confused to realize that many modern automatic BMWs (and possibly older ones?) don't have a transmission fluid dipstick under the hood. This is because BMW's "lifetime transmissions" are sealed; both the fill and drain plugs are under the vehicle and require it to be on a lift to access. BMW dealers will not replace your transmission fluid, regardless of your service history. This does not mean that they have some magical ATF fluid that will make your gearbox last forever, or that they guarantee anything like that. Take your car to a reputable tranny shop and get the fluid changed outside the dealer every 60k, the way you would on any other vehicle.

- BMW used to be good about prewiring their cars for options. Adding a 6-disc Pioneer changer, factory alarm, or car cellular phone (heh) to any E34 like mine is as easy as connecting a harness and maybe a few screwdriver turns. However, if you want navigation, buy your car with it. None of the newer nav-capable cars are prewired for it unless it's ordered as an option. I have the BMW-official procedure followed by dealers for when customers want to retrofit a car with nav. It's not pretty, something like 8-10 hours for 2 people to do. The good news is, upgrading your existing BMW nav unit from one level to another (Mk I thru Mk IV) is as easy as stated above--disconnect the old brain and head unit/bezel, and connect the new ones.

- Retrofitting factory LED tail lights and HID headlights on these can also be problematic due to improper application of seals... these are some more items that are better purchased with the vehicle.

- Keep up to date with recommended service intervals. Inspection I and II aren't cheap, but hurt much less if you are handy and have a decent set of metric tools.

Regarding the S62-powered E31, it should be a piece of cake considering this engine was successfully shoehorned into an E30 M3 :) Another fun fact: while a true M8 never made it past the test mule prototype stage, guess where a future evolution of its S70 engine ended up? :D A detuned version is found in the 850CSi--in fact, the original paperwork (and VIN decoding) identify every 850CSi as an "M8".

But I digress. :)


Ya I guess there is no escaping the costs that come with getting one of those babies, the E39 540i is looking like a better for a first time BMW owner, I guess as I get more experienced in these issues I might get an 8-series in the far future (when my pockets get deep enough for me to not worry too much about maintenance ;) )

That's very useful info about the maintenance of BMWs you have there, I'll keep that in mind for next year.

And as for the info about the S70 engine I did realize that years ago from this site. I guess this site was one of the reasons I dug that 8 series dream again from the backyard :)

DarkThinker