Calling all Windows Home Server gurus . . .

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm cautiously moving to change my "thinking" about home-file servers and OS choices, which drives backup and integrity options (like RAID -- which I can now see as unnecessary).

I was never so naive as to assume that WHS could function like an auxiliary workstation OS, and I see some people have implemented it with XP or VISTA running VMWare or some other virtual-machine solution.

HOW -- EVER!! Despite the "console" accessibility installed on other computers with the "Connection" disc, I've had the machine intended for WHS installation set up to use a KVM switch.

SOOOO . . . . . What . . . Does THIS mean . . . in a Microsoft WHS technical brief? --:

Important
There is no reason for files to end up in the Recycle Bin of your home server, unless you are inappropriately using your home server with a monitor, mouse and keyboard attached. All administrative access to your home server should be done from a home computer using the Windows Home Server Console.

What does " . . . inappropriately . . " mean here?

Does it mean "using the OS like you'd use any workstation OS?" Or would using a keyboard, mouse and monitor connection be "appropriate" to do things you would equally -- or almost equally -- do through a console installation on another machine?

 

[RebateMonger]

Files that are located in the shared folders should only be added, moved and deleted from a network connection. You can reach this, even on the Server itself, by using Internet Explorer and typing \\ServerName.

Since network shares don't use the "Recycle Bin", that's why you'll never see any files there (unless you are working directly in WHS Explorer, which is seldom necessary).

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Files that are located in the shared folders should only be moved and deleted from a network connection. You can reach this, even on the Server itself, by using Internet Explorer and typing \\ServerName.

Since network shares don't use the "Recycle Bin", that's why you'll never see any files there (unless you are working directly in WHS Explorer, which is seldom necessary).

So you're saying -- what I thought I'd gleaned from quickly scanning through the web-sources I'd found -- that I'm not "limited" to working with WHS through its workstation-based "Console?" That seems pretty clear, if only implicit, from some of those readings.

I would've installed this system months ago -- if I'd been as impetuous as when I was 20years younger. But it's a good thing I didn't -- the originally-targeted hardware (P4 on a RAMBUS-based motherboard) -- went "south" last week (memory errors, some sort of damage to the motherboard so system will only "restart" when you had chosen "shutdown", etc.)

I'm still trying to sort out whether to scuttle the HighPoint controller (using the disks as JBOD or single drives), and install a second 500GB drive and pull the array of 160GB disks from the system entirely.

Also -- I want to be able to mount and dismount a hot-swap IDE drive for backing up the "Primary data partition" under WHS. I can see that this drive cannot be allocated to the drives in the "secondary data partition(s)" -- or needs to be removed from those drive allocations before it is dismounted.

I would think that this shouldn't be a problem. Let me know if you think it is, or there are any considerations I should accommodate.

 

[ZetaEpyon]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
So you're saying -- what I thought I'd gleaned from quickly scanning through the web-sources I'd found -- that I'm not "limited" to working with WHS through its workstation-based "Console?" That seems pretty clear, if only implicit, from some of those readings.

Correct, it doesn't prevent you from hooking up a keyboard and mouse, or even from logging in via Remote Desktop, and using the system directly. However, that isn't the intended usage (hence inappropriate) and MS won't support it if you mess something up.

Also -- I want to be able to mount and dismount a hot-swap IDE drive for backing up the "Primary data partition" under WHS. I can see that this drive cannot be allocated to the drives in the "secondary data partition(s)" -- or needs to be removed from those drive allocations before it is dismounted.

What do you mean by primary data partition, the WHS storage pool? Or the OS partition?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: ZetaEpyon

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
So you're saying -- what I thought I'd gleaned from quickly scanning through the web-sources I'd found -- that I'm not "limited" to working with WHS through its workstation-based "Console?" That seems pretty clear, if only implicit, from some of those readings.

Correct, it doesn't prevent you from hooking up a keyboard and mouse, or even from logging in via Remote Desktop, and using the system directly. However, that isn't the intended usage (hence inappropriate) and MS won't support it if you mess something up.

Also -- I want to be able to mount and dismount a hot-swap IDE drive for backing up the "Primary data partition" under WHS. I can see that this drive cannot be allocated to the drives in the "secondary data partition(s)" -- or needs to be removed from those drive allocations before it is dismounted.

What do you mean by primary data partition, the WHS storage pool? Or the OS partition?

The MS Technical Brief on "WHS Drive Extender" distinguishes between the 20GB OS partition and a "primary data partition" that stores the "tombstones" for the shared folders and files. Supposedly, the files and their "shadow copies" are stored on the "secondary data partition" -- consisting of the additional hard disks added or included in the system besides the boot drive.

So the boot drive would, by default, have two partitions: the OS partition, and the "primary data partition." The technical brief recommends using the largest drive possible for this boot drive, to allow for ambitious expansion of that file data.

 

[RebateMonger]

The major thing to watch is not to do disk management from Windows unless you are certain you know what you are doing. At least not if you have more than one hard drive installed.

Since you can add USB and other hot-swap drives as non-Data-pool drives (actually, you can add them as Data-pool drives, too, but WHS won't like it if you remove those without notice), you should be able to do so with hot-swap IDE, too. I've never tried it.

 

[ZetaEpyon]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
The MS Technical Brief on "WHS Drive Extender" distinguishes between the 20GB OS partition and a "primary data partition" that stores the "tombstones" for the shared folders and files. Supposedly, the files and their "shadow copies" are stored on the "secondary data partition" -- consisting of the additional hard disks added or included in the system besides the boot drive.

So the boot drive would, by default, have two partitions: the OS partition, and the "primary data partition." The technical brief recommends using the largest drive possible for this boot drive, to allow for ambitious expansion of that file data.

Ok, I know what you're talking about now. I have a WHS, just wasn't sure exactly what you were referring to.

To be honest, I'm not sure what use backing up just that partition would be. Since Power Pack 1, WHS does not copy data to that partition before moving it to the storage pool, so it's essentially just used for the tombstones unless your storage pool gets completely filled up.

Backing up the tombstones sounds good, but I'm not sure how useful it would be in practice. My understanding is that if something happens (drive failure, whatever) that you need to reinstall the OS, the reinstall process will also re-generate the tombstones based on the data in the pool.

I know that some people run a RAID-1 for the OS drive (system & primary data partition), but that, too, is something that's technically not supported by MS.

If you haven't yet, this might be something that you'd want to ask over at the WeGotServed forums, I'm sure they'd be able to provide a much more technical answer than I can provide.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: ZetaEpyon

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
The MS Technical Brief on "WHS Drive Extender" distinguishes between the 20GB OS partition and a "primary data partition" that stores the "tombstones" for the shared folders and files. Supposedly, the files and their "shadow copies" are stored on the "secondary data partition" -- consisting of the additional hard disks added or included in the system besides the boot drive.

So the boot drive would, by default, have two partitions: the OS partition, and the "primary data partition." The technical brief recommends using the largest drive possible for this boot drive, to allow for ambitious expansion of that file data.

Ok, I know what you're talking about now. I have a WHS, just wasn't sure exactly what you were referring to.

To be honest, I'm not sure what use backing up just that partition would be. Since Power Pack 1, WHS does not copy data to that partition before moving it to the storage pool, so it's essentially just used for the tombstones unless your storage pool gets completely filled up.

Backing up the tombstones sounds good, but I'm not sure how useful it would be in practice. My understanding is that if something happens (drive failure, whatever) that you need to reinstall the OS, the reinstall process will also re-generate the tombstones based on the data in the pool.

I know that some people run a RAID-1 for the OS drive (system & primary data partition), but that, too, is something that's technically not supported by MS.

If you haven't yet, this might be something that you'd want to ask over at the WeGotServed forums, I'm sure they'd be able to provide a much more technical answer than I can provide.

I'm sorry! I got mixed up myself! YES! the "primary data partition" only stores the "tombstones." I want to back-up the shared files themselves, which would be stored on the "secondary data partition." I won't need to back up the additional "shadow-copies" of the files. Actually, I was thinking that I wouldn't allow duplication of certain shared folders, maybe to make that distinction as to whether they're "persistent" or "volatile" files. But I like the idea of backing up the actual files to a hot-swap drive.

Of course, in addition to RAID5, the hot-swap backup drive is an artifact of my thinking when I was using Win2000-Pro as a "file-server." I've got files that go back to 1983! (which, of course, I could just put the old data on CD/DVD and keep "off-line" until they're needed (if ever!) )

The hot-swap system is from Star-Tech -- purchased at Provantage.com: [whoops! I can't get it there anymore! It's at NewEgg, and I can't even find the "extra caddy" product there if I want another one!]:

Star-Tech hot-swap IDE system

 

[ZetaEpyon]

Ok, that makes more sense then. 🙂

If you just want to protect against drive failure, then the folder duplication that WHS itself provides might be sufficient. However, if you want a true backup to protect against things like accidental deletion, file corruption, that sort of stuff, then what you're talking about should work. As was mentioned before, you can just not have WHS manage that drive, and it won't be added to the overall storage pool.

 

[RebateMonger]

WHS Power Pack 1 (?) has a built-in backup program for shared data folders. It allows you to select which shared data folders to back up and will do so to a hard drive that's been added as a non-Storage-pool drive. When such a drive has been added, a "Windows Home Server" machine will be added to the list of Backup clients. Selecting this machine will give you the option of backing it up and the option of selecting which data folders you want backed up.

The Primary Data Partition (in other words, the second partition on the WHS boot disk) stores all the tombstones, but also stores shared data and backups. WHS will definitely try to keep extra space available on that drive, but will also use it for general storage.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Thanks, guys. As I said, I've spent a lifetime "just plunging in" and sorting it out afterward. With time on my hands, I'm trying to do things in a more deliberate way.