Calling all Mazdaspeed3 & Mazdaspeed6 owners

[fbrdphreak]

Well I did some test driving today. After some research, it looks like the 08 WRX motor is putting out about the same power as the Legacy GT and the gear ratios are near identical. I got it on the road and just was not impressed. Fell on its face >5K RPM, practically didn't pull until 3K...I just wasn't impressed. The power delivery was very linear, but never felt like it put you in the seat at all. I also drove an Outback XT automatic and it felt a little stronger, but that could have been the difference in gears.

Anyway - in my disappointment, I went over to the Mazda dealership. They had a used 06 Mazdaspeed6 and of course Mazdaspeed3's. I test drove both and WOW. The motor felt much stronger, which makes sense given it makes more power, but you could actually feel the turbo kick in and pull strongly. I think the 6-speed made a big difference too - the 5-speeds just aren't great for enthusiastic driving IMO.

It's the end of the month and the sales mgr is motivated to make deals.

I loved the agility and handling of the MS3, but the greater room & AWD of the MS6 is promising. The MS3 should get better gas mileage, but FWD leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Still, I put it through some good paces and didn't find myself hampered by FWD on the street. Now in bad weather I probly would be - food for thought.

So I know we've got some Mazdaspeed owners on here. Step up and chime in.

Any short or long term issues with either of these cars that I should be aware of? Long-term reliability is a concern for me and Mazda hasn't quite proven itself (in my eyes) yet.

Discuss!

 

[zerocool84]

MS3 without a doubt. Faster, handles better, cheaper, but FWD. If you can deal with not being able to floor it at every stoplight from take-off it should be a no brainer.

 

[Savij]

I think you should be shopping the Speed6 against the WRX, not the GT. I liked thed 6 a little better when I drove them, but it was very comparable to the WRX. The subaru dealers were also a lot more motivated to work on the price when I was looking.

 

[SithSolo1]

If you want speed/power why need get a last gen STi or Evo?

 

[RGUN]

You're willing to shop a used Mazdaspeed why not step up to an 06/07 STI, they are way quicker than the fat mazdaspeeds. Before I bought my STI I drove a mazdaspeed6 and it just felt brutally slow compared to the STI. Or shop the new 08 STI, although it might be out of the price range you were looking at. I am surprised you werent happy with the 08 WRX though, but it can be woken up significantly with a Stage 1 tune, which is only a reflash and costs $695.

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
the 5-speeds just aren't great for enthusiastic driving IMO

6 speeds are great in small underpowered cars to take advantage of every bit of torque the engine puts out, gears are simply torque multipliers. Does it really matter if the mazda3 has 6 gears? It has a flat beefy torque curve, something that a miata/s2k/rsx/celica doesnt have, those are the cars that need a 6 speed. Once you start doing some racing you will dislike the extra gear.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
the 5-speeds just aren't great for enthusiastic driving IMO

6 speeds are great in small underpowered cars to take advantage of every bit of torque the engine puts out, gears are simply torque multipliers. Does it really matter if the mazda3 has 6 gears? It has a flat beefy torque curve, something that a miata/s2k/rsx/celica doesnt have, those are the cars that need a 6 speed. Once you start doing some racing you will dislike the extra gear.

This is true, but just driving the WRX it did not impress me. Reviews agree, the drivetrain gets you there relatively quickly, but with no excitement or enthusiasm. One thing that might contribute to this is the 5-speed vs 6-speed, but honestly when boost hits in a Mazdaspeed your grin just gets bigger. When boost hits in the 08 WRX, you wonder when boost is going to hit...
And as much as I'd like to think otherwise, I don't see myself racing anytime soon and if I do, I'll get a stripper and build it into a track car before I try to track my daily driver honestly.

To all the other questions on the STi: if you see my other thread "Am I missing any here" I'm trying to consolidate two cars (one practical, one impractical) into one that has the best of all worlds. One of the cost savings I'm hoping to get from this is in insurance. Anything with the word Impreza in it has sky high insurance. Also, the STi doesn't get much better if any gas mileage than the GTO. The Mazdaspeed3 should get much improved mileage over the GTO, the MS6 less-so but still better.
Also overall quality of vehicle is important to me. I want a nicer interior (which I do like the Subaru's) and a more comfortable ride than my GTO's aftermarket suspension. While I find the ride of an Evo IX GSR to be tolerable, I hear the STI's are teeth-rattling.

I did want to test drive the new STi, even though it is out of my price range, but apparently they have to do a credit check first because it's their only one, haha.

Originally posted by: zerocool84
MS3 without a doubt. Faster, handles better, cheaper, but FWD. If you can deal with not being able to floor it at every stoplight from take-off it should be a no brainer.

Yeah I was surprised how well the FWD handled the curves. I beat on it through some sweeping turns and didn't hear a squeak from the tires. I'll do a more comprehensive test drive Monday to make sure I won't regret the FWD.

 

[RGUN]

The ride on the STI is definitely stiff, but the seats are some of the best I have ever sat in. So comfortable, the harshness of the road does not transfer to you fully. I cant quite understand where you are coming from with the MS6, I tested it and it felt incredibly slow, I didnt feel any surge of power as it built boost, and it just felt like a pig. Both the MS6 and MS3 are damn sexy looking cars though, and in the end Im sure you'll be happy with which ever car you decide to purchase.

 

[shabby]

I rode in an sti today at an autocross event, great power and brakes but lotsa understeer. Im not surprised you didnt like the wrx, its a bit under powered.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

IMO I'd avoid the MS6 like the plague.

Rear diff is prone to failure
In hot waether the car falls flat on its face and will go into limp mode due to a poor intercooler
Clutch is prone to failure and engagement point sucks

You are dealing with car that was made in very limited quantities for 2yrs (2006 & 2007), the factory support is abysmal and parts availability is low.


I think the WRX can be modded to improve all the problems you had but of course that creates $ & Warranty issues.


Give the 4dr GTI a spin if you like hatches.

 

[theeedude]

Get the MS3. More practical, plus looks better, IMO.
Yeah, it's FWD, but handling and steering is very good, so you should be fine, and it is more fuel efficient than AWD.

 

[Chunkee]

i am looking at a ms3 myself or a civic si. NO VW and the STI is like 10 grand more. Bang for buck and all the great reviews point to the car u drove. What color you want? The new 2008.5 white ones look pretty sick.

jC

 

[Demo24]

well first of all the 08 wrx and the lgt are not identical. The lgt should have the "put you in the seat" feel, whereas the 08 wrx got that tuned out as it was made softer. I dunno if the 08 legacys got that treatment or not.

Might want to look for an 07 legacy spec. b, nice 6 speed and a few other amenities.

 

[Reckoner]

I've owned both a WRX and LGT, and they really are different cars. Don't forget, the LGT uses a detuned STI engine as opposed to the WRX. These cars really shine after you nab a Cobb AccessPort. Subaru's are easy to mod considering they have one of the best mod communities out there.

 

[Arkaign]

Whomever said last-gen Evo or STi is on the mark. Both of them annihilate the MS3, and have a lot higher ceiling for performance (go look at highly modded EVO/STi compared to highly modded MS3's). Should be able to find one mint, low miles (15k or so) for the same price as a new MS3.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Evo/STi = higher insurance costs than I'm paying now, not much better gas mileage than I'm getting now with the GTO, and I don't care about ceiling of performance. I will likely leave a Mazdaspeed pretty stock - a Legacy GT I'd have to mod without a doubt.

If I wanted unlimited performance ceiling, I'd drop twin turbo's on the Goat and pull 600 RWHP on the stock block, call it a day. When I got bored, build a forged motor and put out 800+ on my daily driver.

 

[melijak]

Dude,
The LGT has the power but you have to unleash it. simple exchaust and stage 2 map bring you over 300hp. Couple of sway bars and you are set.
When I used to race (autox) with my stage 2 wrx, I was able to walk all over the stock M3's but always lost agains st2 LegacyGt's.

 

[ZetaEpyon]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I loved the agility and handling of the MS3, but the greater room & AWD of the MS6 is promising. The MS3 should get better gas mileage, but FWD leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Still, I put it through some good paces and didn't find myself hampered by FWD on the street. Now in bad weather I probly would be - food for thought.

Honestly, the MS3 is fine in bad weather, as long as it's not too cold. A number of MS3 owners ,including myself, have reported pretty rough operation when the temperatures get really cold (20F and lower in my case). Mazda just put out a tech service bulletin for the fuel pump, though, and based on the description, I suspect it will probably resolve the issue in most cases.

As far as handling and stability, I had no problems with the MS3 this winter. The one thing you would need to be worried about, if you get any real amount of snow, is the tires. The stock tires are definitely summer-only, and you can tell that their performance drops off sharply as the temperature gets down to around freezing (snow or no). Put a reasonable set of winter tires on, and you'll have no troubles whatsoever.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Thanks for the opinions Zeta. My concern about bad weather was all the power + FWD + slick roads = no traction. I do love just pulling out into traffic full-throttle in my AWD Subbie. Wheel spin is never an issue.

I'm about to head out for them to evaluate my trade (which could be a dealbreaker) and drive both the MS6 & MS3 some more. Thanks everyone

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
I've owned both a WRX and LGT, and they really are different cars. Don't forget, the LGT uses a detuned STI engine as opposed to the WRX. These cars really shine after you nab a Cobb AccessPort. Subaru's are easy to mod considering they have one of the best mod communities out there.

The new MY08 WRX uses the same engine as the LGT, and should be just as moddable.
The WRX still has the smaller TD04 turbo, but upgrading to the LGT's VF40 or VF46 should be a snap. That, a TBE, and a good tune (I recommend professional tune as opposed to an AP tune) and up near 300 to the wheels should be doable.

The MS6 has been plagued by problems. I'd avoid.

The MS3 is great, very fast right off the lot, but there are some things I don't like about it personally. The FWD has a lot of torque-steer at WOT and on uneven pavement for one. The shifter is vague and sloppy. And this is just personal preference, but I hate the seating position (although maybe I just couldn't get the seat adjusted right, although I sure tried).

 

[AdamK47]

What aftermarket suspension do you have on the GTO? How many miles are on the parts? The dealer offer price won't include any modding done. You could either sell the car private, or sell me the aftermarket suspension parts and I'll give you some of my stock parts (already have drag springs).

 

[fbrdphreak]

All - I only drove the 08 WRX because there are no LGT's in my area. I would buy an 05-06 LGT were I to go the Subaru route.

Adam - I have a full Pedders suspension consisting of GSR struts, Big Bore GSR shocks, 3/8" front drop springs, 1/2" rear drop springs, radius rod bushings, front sway bushings, and front & rear endlinks. I also have the diff insert and rear sway bar bushings still in the packages. I was planning to de-mod and sell privately, but this opportunity for the Mazdaspeed came up suddenly. They are currently evaluating trade-in price and that will determine how far this deal can go.
If I end up de-modding, I am happy to give you first crack at the parts.

I was hoping to be at ~$15K net and even in the best case scenario, the MS3 will put me over that. After driving the MS3 around, I have some qualms compared to an LGT:

*I believe I can get good handling out of an LGT with better ride quality than the MS3
*LGT has a little more passenger room, but less cargo room (esp considering the MS3's seats fold down)
*LGT has heated seats, mmmmmm
*I would not have to mod the MS3 out of the box. LGT would require full suspension & at least an MP3 headunit or aux-in
*MS3 should get better gas mileage
*I like the close gears on the MS3, gives more flexibility to pull from lower rev's than a 5-speed would
*Insurance is cheaper on LGT (but not by much)

 

[AdamK47]

What other mods would you be taking off to go back to stock?

 

[fbrdphreak]

PM sent Adam.

 

[mykol1010]

Here is a vote for an Evo, I own an 05 Evo and have been very happy with it. The ride isn't really that harsh and passenger room is pretty decent. Sucks that the rear seats don't fold down so it makes some activities such as snowboarding a bigger pain in the ass. I'd imagine you could find some very cheap deals on the 07s since the Evo 10 is now available. I was able to get mine for 2000 under invoice when I purchased at the end of the model year. Gas consumption is pretty reasonable, I average anywhere from 21-23 (most of my driving being done on the freeway).