Calling all espresso snobs - need a rec on a superautomatic espresso machine

[Sho'Nuff]

Long story short, I buy a large americano every day from my local coffee shop. Sometimes twice. It tastes great, I love espresso, I can afford it, and I have no other vices. So I'm not apologetic about the habit.

That said, I am a cheap bastard and I've recently come to the realization that I spend upwards of $2000 a year on coffee. And that doesn't include the lost value of the time I have spent waiting in line for Sergei (the local barista) to make my americano every damn day for the last few years. I don't like Sergei and his knit hat, but I do like his espresso. So we have a mutual understanding of sorts. He sees me in line and makes my drink without me having to talk to him, and he gets paid. It is kind of nice and probably the only reason I can stand seeing him every day.

Having come to this realization, I have decided that I'm going to invest in a good superautomatic espresso machine. It might cost me a pretty penny up front, but my guess is that I'll break even on the machine in about 12 months. 6 months if I can get my wife on board. Sorry Sergei, you make a good brew but I am kicking your hipster a$$ to the curb.

So espresso snobs - do any of you have a superautomatic? If so, which one, would you recommend it, and why?

FWIW - my budget is $2000. I am looking for a machine that is self cleaning or stupid easy to clean, reliable, and will do at least a one touch latte. More preferred would be a machine that can store at least two pre-programmed drinks - one for my wife (latte) and one for me (espresso), long coffee, etc.

Also - before the coffee purists out there come in crying the virtues of french presses, pour over this, pour over that, etc. That crap is ok and all but we are talking about high test here. I.e., espresso. Not the brown water weaker folks call coffee. I like my coffee like I like my beer - big, black, and strong (no, I don't like my men or my women that way). So save your hipster comments, your knit hats, and your silver pour over teapots for another thread.

TLDR - OP drinks lots of americanos made by hipster named Sergei. OP is sick of paying for $2000/year worth of Sergei's knit hats, and wants to buy a superautomatic espresso machine instead. Budget is $2k - must have wife pleasing capabilities (i.e., make a 1 touch latte). Self-cleaning preferred. Recommendations requested.

 

[JulesMaximus]

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/2101673/?catalogId=27&sku=2101673&cm_ven=Google_PLA&cm_cat=Shopping&cm_pla=default&cm_ite=default&kwid=productads-adid^45527542303-device^t-plaid^109019305543-sku^2101673-adType^PLA&gclid=CMGvvvu6-tACFcVffgodRloMJQ

I bought this one and have been using it for about a year or so. It isn't super automatic but it is pretty easy to use and it is self cleaning for the most part. Makes a great cappuccino too and my wife uses the frother to make chai tea lattes every morning. It's also not overly expensive. We use it every day and I'm very happy with it. I can brew a cappuccino in about 2-3 minutes (including frothing the milk) and clean up is simple and easy.

 

[ponyo]

I don't have recommendation because I'm not in market for one right now and I'm not current on all the new fancy machines and the technology out there. But I was in your position 7 years ago. I was spending time and money buying coffee and lattes every morning at DD, Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. Anywhere I could get a large cup of coffee in the morning while fighting the morning traffic. I decided to buy super automatic espresso machine and ordered Gaggia Titanium from Costco. I figured if I didn't like the machine or had any problems, I could simply return the machine to Costco for a full refund. That was back in 2009. Seven years and 5,978 cups of espresso and coffee later, the machine is still going strong and we use it every morning and day. I take 2 large cups of Americano coffee with me every morning in my travel cup, and I no longer stop for coffee on my way to work. The machine has paid for itself many, many times over in money saved but most importantly, time saved. And it's so nice on the weekends when I wake up and can get my coffee fix while in my pajamas with a touch of a single button. Well, it's two buttons actually. One to wake up the machine and another button to make my large cup of Americano. It's so awesome and convenient. It's an essential appliance at my house like the stove, refrigerator, and rice cooker. If it was to somehow break tomorrow, I would buy another super automatic espresso immediately.

My only recommendation is to buy from a retailer with excellent return policy. Reviews seems to be all over the place with these super automatic espresso. But people are passionate about coffee and have different likes and needs. And these machines are expensive to buy and also to service and repair so buying from a trusted retailer is important even if you have to pay little more IMO.

 

[lxskllr]

I use a $30 moka pot for espresso-like coffee. I'm not opposed to spending big money on coffee, but complicated expensive machines sometimes require complicated expensive repairs. A moka pot and a manual milk frother can be had for ~$50. If it doesn't work out, you're only out $50.

 

[OutHouse]

wish i could help, i know nothing about those "superautomatic" home machines.

I have have several of these in the warehouse probably the same as your favorite guy Sergi uses.

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/cafe-shop/espresso-machines

i do have one of these that i got at an estate auction for 50 bucks about 9 years ago. The rednecks had no idea the value of it. It does make a great cup with a good head of crema.

https://www.amazon.com/Pavoni-PC-16...ements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin:5616183011

 

[OutHouse]

if you have any used restaurant equipment places around you. I would HIGHLY recommend you take a peek. they almost always have high end coffee equipment that you can get fairly cheap.

 

[Kazukian]

I've bought from these folks a couple times, they have great service and a ton of YouTube videos.

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/espresso-machines/superautomatics

Am too cheap myself to buy a SA, I like stuff that's a bit simpler, like me . So I can't give any advice on the model or brand.

 

[Imp]

I put coriander in my instant coffee today. That was wild enough for me.

 

[elitejp]

I think your really just wasting money on getting a fully automatic espresso machine. The premise is pretty simple in that making an espresso only needs two main parts, a heating element and a grinder. The espresso is your heating element and you need nothing more for it to do than to produce a constant temperature, So research what single head espresso machine works well and lasts long. The second part is actually more important and thats the grinder.
For my first cafe I started out with a single head expobar and a mazzer super jolly. Less than 2000usd for a machine that ive used in my cafe for 5years. The other thing that I added was a water purifier and softener.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I think your really just wasting money on getting a fully automatic espresso machine. The premise is pretty simple in that making an espresso only needs two main parts, a heating element and a grinder. The espresso is your heating element and you need nothing more for it to do than to produce a constant temperature, So research what single head espresso machine works well and lasts long. The second part is actually more important and thats the grinder.
For my first cafe I started out with a single head expobar and a mazzer super jolly. Less than 2000usd for a machine that ive used in my cafe for 5years. The other thing that I added was a water purifier and softener.

If all I drank was espresso I would tend to agree with you. But my wife likes the fru fru milk drinks and is not interested in learning how to make them for herself. I could make them for her, but she and I leave the house at very different times so either I am not awake or she is not awake, depending on the day.

 

[elitejp]

You misunderstand. A single head espresso machine will include a milk wand or a froth wand or whatever its called and you can make any coffee drink you want. (You put the wand in the milk and it froths it. Super easy.) I should have been more specific in saying an espresso based drink which includes anything with coffee. The machine takes about 10-20minutes to warm up properly (ive never acually measured the time) and then stays warm for a very long time so if you turn it off and then later in the day use it again it would be closer to 5 minutes. Im sure any machine is this way.
I knew nothing about coffee and never drank the stuff before I opened a cafe and knew that espresso based drinks would be needed so I taught myself. Its extremely easy to make a latte or whatever you like. If you want to do latte art that takes practice but to just make a frothy milk coffee you need about two minutes from start to finish and like i said it doesnt get much simpler. And you have a better machine and coffee experience for a cheaper price. And im not talking about the satisfaction of doing it yourself (I dont really care about that) I mean your getting better bang for the buck by buying a semi automatic.

 

[MrSquished]

2K for a coffee machine is way way above my pay grade.

I don't drink anything but Iced Lattes. No foam needed, none of that.

So I just need a machine that busts out a nice espresso and that's it. Then I just make 2 or 3 shots and toss it in a glass with milk and ice. What are some options for those needs? Better to go with a separate grinder and espresso machine or an all in one?

 

[OutHouse]

You misunderstand. A single head espresso machine will include a milk wand or a froth wand or whatever its called and you can make any coffee drink you want. (You put the wand in the milk and it froths it. Super easy.) I should have been more specific in saying an espresso based drink which includes anything with coffee. The machine takes about 10-20minutes to warm up properly (ive never acually measured the time) and then stays warm for a very long time so if you turn it off and then later in the day use it again it would be closer to 5 minutes. Im sure any machine is this way.
I knew nothing about coffee and never drank the stuff before I opened a cafe and knew that espresso based drinks would be needed so I taught myself. Its extremely easy to make a latte or whatever you like. If you want to do latte art that takes practice but to just make a frothy milk coffee you need about two minutes from start to finish and like i said it doesnt get much simpler. And you have a better machine and coffee experience for a cheaper price. And im not talking about the satisfaction of doing it yourself (I dont really care about that) I mean your getting better bang for the buck by buying a semi automatic.

100% solid advice.

 

[elitejp]

Pixel,
I would just get good flavored instant coffee and mix that into your milk

 

[CraKaJaX]

Seattle Coffee Gear and Whole Latte Love are great websites. Both also have good YouTube channels that give reviews of MANY different machines. They also have videos that go through the 'basics' of making the different drinks, the different components of a standard machine, equipment, etc. I didn't need something so sophisticated as you, and am the only one who uses it so I had no one else to place. I ended up getting myself the Gaggia Classic for ~$300. It's a semi-automatic machine, built like a truck. I use it daily and have had zero problems. Mostly just straight espresso with a dash of sugar, but I have used it to froth milk and all that for the fancier drinks once in a while. You have to make sure you stay on top of the cleaning part, otherwise it becomes a mess - ie, crusty, gross milk stuck on the wand (or even worse, crusted INSIDE the nozzle). If you make it part of the routine to clean it after use, it's not so much of a problem. Doesn't take long, but it's almost required you do so.

Here's my machine - https://www.wholelattelove.com/prod...ainless-steel-semi-automatic-espresso-machine

I highly recommended watching some videos. You'll get a better idea of what you want.

Do you already have a grinder?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Not the brown water weaker folks call coffee. I like my coffee like I like my beer - big, black, and strong

An Americano is a watered down espresso. Seriously.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

An Americano is a watered down espresso. Seriously.

Hey man - don't screw up my vibe by making factual statements. Ain't nobody got time for that here.

That said - an americano (i.e., an italian long coffee) still has a much stronger flavor than normal (american) coffee. That's why an americano is called an americano and not just coffee.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Seattle Coffee Gear and Whole Latte Love are great websites. Both also have good YouTube channels that give reviews of MANY different machines. They also have videos that go through the 'basics' of making the different drinks, the different components of a standard machine, equipment, etc. I didn't need something so sophisticated as you, and am the only one who uses it so I had no one else to place. I ended up getting myself the Gaggia Classic for ~$300. It's a semi-automatic machine, built like a truck. I use it daily and have had zero problems. Mostly just straight espresso with a dash of sugar, but I have used it to froth milk and all that for the fancier drinks once in a while. You have to make sure you stay on top of the cleaning part, otherwise it becomes a mess - ie, crusty, gross milk stuck on the wand (or even worse, crusted INSIDE the nozzle). If you make it part of the routine to clean it after use, it's not so much of a problem. Doesn't take long, but it's almost required you do so.

Here's my machine - https://www.wholelattelove.com/prod...ainless-steel-semi-automatic-espresso-machine

I highly recommended watching some videos. You'll get a better idea of what you want.

Do you already have a grinder?

Thanks. I appreciate the input and I've spent a lot of time on both the websites you mentioned and I've learned quite a bit. Now I am just trying to narrow down choices. FWIW - if it was just me who needed to use the machine, I would probably go with a semiautomatic espresso machine like the one you mentioned. It does 99% of what I want and is much more reasonably priced. Unfortunately this machine also needs to be used by my wife, as she is the one racking up huge coffee bills with her $5-6 a pop soy lattes.

That said, I am leaning towards either the Gaggia Accademia or the Gaggia Anime Prestige for a couple of reasons. First and perhaps most importantly, they have the appropriate wife approval factor (WAF). Second - they seem to be incredibly easy to use, apart from the initial programming period (which doesn't look so bad. Third - cleaning seems to be quite easy. The internals are largely self cleaning (apart from occassional descaling), and emptying the dregs/drip tray is simple enough. I like that on both machines the milk never enters the machine, and both machines have a steam/hot water cleaning cycle for the milk circuit - keeping them sanitary. Third - reviews say that the machines produce acceptable espresso. Not artisinal quality, but on par or better than sbux which is good enough for me. Fourth - in the case of the accademia I like that it has a milk frothing wand. My wife will almost certainly never use it, but I almost certainly will. Fifth - in the case of the Prestige I like that the machine is compact and won't take up a huge spot on my counter. However, it lacks the frothing wand and has far fewer settings to customize than the accaddemia. As they both have the same brew group I don't think that the improved control offered by the Accademia translates to more stuff to break - I think it just means that the programming of the accademia is a bit more sophisticated. Which is interesting as the accademia is a significantly older model.

Both machines are expensive ($1200 and $1500, respectively), but with the amount of coffee my wife and I drink either would pay for itself in about 8 months. Then our coffee bill will be ~15% of what it used to be AND I will have the flexibility to try various beans.

 

[ponyo]

One negative with the superautomatic machine is it doesn't really like dark roast oily beans. At least my Gaggia Titanium machine doesn't. Constantly using oily dark roast beans will gum up your machine and the beans can stick in the hopper. I drink medium roast so oily bean isn't a problem but it might be a problem if you prefer dark roast beans. You might have to clean and service your machine more often. Luckily, I haven't had to service my machine. We rinse and clean the brew unit over running water about once a week. That's simple for my model since it's one unit and comes out with a push of a button. I did replace the water tank with a new one about a year ago. It has rubber seal on the inside the tank and like anything rubber, it will wear with time. New water tank was around $50.

 

[desura]

Two options:

1. Aeropress. Very cheap, can use your own beans and grinder.

2. Nespresso. Objectively it is the best homebrew coffee I've ever had. Downside is that you can only use it with one-use capsules.

 

[preslove]

Damn, must be nice. I'm a coffee and tea aficionado, but espresso is another level of complicated.

I'm in the far south, so my main daily is cold brew coffee, which I make a batch of every week by grinding 12 oz of whole beans and steeping for 18 hours. I have a really good variable temp tea kettle with a gooseneck spout that I can use for pour over coffee and various types of teas (I can set it to 176 for green tea, 185-195 for oolong, or whatever else). I have a tea tray that drains in a basin, so I can do a decent chinese tea ceremony.

Espresso? I have a $150 nespresso machine and milk frother set. I don't make espresso every day, so it isn't too wasteful or expensive using the capsules. And the espresso is actually really good. Many high end restaurants actually use nespresso because employing competent baristas & maintenance people is too much of a pain in the ass. I tried using a $100 basic espresso machine, but the cleanup and maintenance was too much.

As for your use case, your focus on self-cleaning is very good. Cleaning the machine afterwards is the worst part & most likely thing to keep you from using it. And, nespresso is too wasteful for a daily driver. So, don't listen to these people saying to use a cheap machine that doesn't self clean. Also, a machine that self grinds is good, too, because a good grinder is imperative to espresso, more so than any other style.

IMHO, you'd be better off getting a superautomatic with a simple milk frothing wand, and then getting a separate milk frother like this one. It gets better reviews than the Aeroccino I use, and the Aeroccino is great. I'd be very wary of a fancy milk gizmo because it's one more thing that can break and milk goes bad so easily. Better to just use a separate frother that can be cleaned in the sink after every use. And, if it breaks you can just buy another $50 one, while your expensive espresso machine keeps working and doesn't need to go in for repairs. And, for basic cappuccino & latte based drinks, the separate frother is going to be just as good & easy to use as the expensive internal automatic one. If you want to do latte art, you'll still have the basic wand attached to your espresso machine for that.

 

[preslove]

Damn you, op! This thread made me go ahead and research espresso machines. Now I want this https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-unica-super-automatic-espresso-machine

 

[Sho'Nuff]

One negative with the superautomatic machine is it doesn't really like dark roast oily beans. At least my Gaggia Titanium machine doesn't. Constantly using oily dark roast beans will gum up your machine and the beans can stick in the hopper. I drink medium roast so oily bean isn't a problem but it might be a problem if you prefer dark roast beans. You might have to clean and service your machine more often. Luckily, I haven't had to service my machine. We rinse and clean the brew unit over running water about once a week. That's simple for my model since it's one unit and comes out with a push of a button. I did replace the water tank with a new one about a year ago. It has rubber seal on the inside the tank and like anything rubber, it will wear with time. New water tank was around $50.

Yeah that seems to be universally true with all superautomatics. The oils on the dark roasted beans gum up the internals of the machine, necessitating repair. That is precisely why those machines specify that you can only use a medium or light roast bean. Which is fine for me because I prefer medium roasts anyway.

Thanks for the feedback re: the water tank. As you said, gaskets and other stuff will wear out over time. One question I had was how long, and your answer gave me some indication of that. The good news is that the gastkets, etc. that are needed for these machines do seem to be readily available and are apparently easy to replace (at least from youtube videos).

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Damn you, op! This thread made me go ahead and research espresso machines. Now I want this https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-unica-super-automatic-espresso-machine

Sorry to lead you down the rabbit hole. Just be glad its only coffee machines and not the Amazon launchpad marketplace. When I first learned about launchpad I lost about 3 days of my life oogling all the interesting/cool/weird tech on it.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Two options:

1. Aeropress. Very cheap, can use your own beans and grinder.

2. Nespresso. Objectively it is the best homebrew coffee I've ever had. Downside is that you can only use it with one-use capsules.

I own an aeropress but I never use it. Recognizing that it IS easy to use, it does not make espresso very well (at least not to my taste) and my wife refuses to use it at all.

Nespresso is an option - I agree that it makes decent tasting coffee/espresso, but the capsules are too expensive. I am trying to buy a machine that will ultimately save me money on coffee. The superautomatic will do that, whereas nespresso really won't. See the cost breakdown of Sbux vs nespreso vs superautomatic here: http://www.peopleprocesstech.com/th...ddiction-and-why-nespresso-is-not-the-answer/ - The short short answer is nespresso will save about $800 over 3 years vs Sbux, whereas a superautomatic will save over $2000 vs Sbux over that same period (despite the machine costing significantly more than nespresso).