1500 homes gone now and a $Billion+ in damages. Just wait and watch how the Insurance Companies screw their policy holders.
Well help is arriving today:
10-25-2007 Bush leaves for California to see fires
President Bush, as he left Thursday to get a close-up view of the devastation caused by wildfires in Southern California, thanked firefighters, expressed sympathy for those who lost their homes and businesses and promised federal assistance.
"It's a sad situation out there in Southern California," he said. "I fully understand that the people have got a lot of anguish in their hearts, and they just need to know a lot of folks care about them."
"I will assure the people of California that the federal government will be deploying resources, assets and manpower necessary to help fight these fires," Bush said.
"As well, I will assure them that because of the declaration I signed yesterday, there will be help for the people of California."
================================
The article speaks for itself.
No comments from me on this because it is considered trolling by Mods.
Originally posted by: RichardE
GF and I almost lost out place in La JollaWas pretty scary tbh. Luckily it turned out ok.
Glad you guys are OK. :thumbsup:
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,591
- 5
- 0
People do not like the sound of a control burn and will try to prevent it for some of the following reasons.
1) The fact that a fire is being deliberately set.
2) The smoke and ash may blow into their property and inconvience them
3) Some worry about how it may affect wildlife.
4) The asthetic appeal of looking at a blacked patch of land for up to 6 months.
Now if people who live in such areaas would actually clear brush and dead debris from their house back by at least 50 feet to 50 yds, they would have a natural firebreak.
And if controlled burns were done in canyons/brush areas where no one has built, but are nearby to homes, that would also act as a natural fire break/reduction.
Animals will move out of the way of controlled burns as long as it is not in the early spring when the young are unable to move.
The controlled burns will also allow new growth of the grass and also allow the conifer trees to produce seeds for new growth.
1) The fact that a fire is being deliberately set.
2) The smoke and ash may blow into their property and inconvience them
3) Some worry about how it may affect wildlife.
4) The asthetic appeal of looking at a blacked patch of land for up to 6 months.
Now if people who live in such areaas would actually clear brush and dead debris from their house back by at least 50 feet to 50 yds, they would have a natural firebreak.
And if controlled burns were done in canyons/brush areas where no one has built, but are nearby to homes, that would also act as a natural fire break/reduction.
Animals will move out of the way of controlled burns as long as it is not in the early spring when the young are unable to move.
The controlled burns will also allow new growth of the grass and also allow the conifer trees to produce seeds for new growth.
More sad state of affairs with U.S. Government in general:
10-25-2007 As wildfires were charging across Southern California, nearly two dozen water-dropping helicopters and two massive cargo planes sat idly by, grounded by government rules and bureaucracy.
How much the aircraft would have helped will never be known, but their inability to provide quick assistance raises troubling questions about California's preparations for a fire season that was widely expected to be among the worst on record.
It took as long as a day for Navy, Marine and California National Guard helicopters to get clearance early this week, in part because state rules require all firefighting choppers to be accompanied by state forestry "fire spotters" who coordinate water or retardant drops. By the time those spotters arrived, the powerful Santa Ana winds stoking the fires had made it too dangerous to fly.
The National Guard's C-130 cargo planes, among the most powerful aerial firefighting weapons, never were slated to help. The reason: They've yet to be outfitted with tanks needed to carry thousands of gallons of fire retardant, though that was promised four years ago.
"The weight of bureaucracy kept these planes from flying, not the heavy winds," Republican U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher told The Associated Press. "When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger."
Rohrabacher and other members of California's congressional delegation are demanding answers about aircraft deployment. And some fire chiefs have grumbled that a quick deployment of aircraft could have helped corral many of the wildfires that quickly flared out of control and have so far burned 500,000 acres from Malibu to the Mexican border.
Thomas Eversole, executive director of the American Helicopter Services & Aerial Firefighting Association, a Virginia-based nonprofit that serves as a liaison between helicopter contractors and federal agencies, said valuable time was lost.
"The basis for the initial attack helicopters is to get there when the fire is still small enough that you can contain it," Eversole said. "If you don't get there in time, you quickly run the risk of these fires getting out of control."
The first of the 15 or so fires started around midnight Saturday. By Sunday afternoon, fires were raging in Los Angeles, San Diego and Orange counties.
At the request of firefighters on the ground, at 4 p.m. Sunday the state Office of Emergency Services asked the National Guard to supply four helicopters. Under state rules, a California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection "spotter" must accompany each military and National Guard helicopter to coordinate water drops.
The spotters have 24 hours to report for duty, and it took nearly all that time for them and the National Guard crews to assemble. By the time they were ready to go, the winds had made it unsafe to fly.
The helicopters finally got off the ground Tuesday.
Mike Padilla, aviation chief for the forestry department, acknowledged the Guard's helicopters were ready to fly before the spotters arrived. He said state officials were surprised.
"Typically we're waiting for them to get crews," Padilla said.
The delay was even longer for Navy and Marine helicopters. They were ready to fly Monday morning but didn't get airborne until Wednesday morning, a period when the acreage that burned quadrupled to more than 250,000 and the number of homes destroyed jumped from 34 to more than 700.
The C-130 saga is a much different story.
More than a decade ago, Congress ordered replacement of the aging removable tanks for the military planes because of safety concerns and worries that they wouldn't fit with new-model aircraft. California's firefighting C-130 unit is one of four the Pentagon has positioned across the country to respond to fire disasters.
New tanks were designed, but they failed to fit into the latest C-130s. Designers were ordered back to the drawing board. Republican Rep. Elton Gallegy said Congress was assured the new tanks would be ready by 2003.
Four years later, the U.S. Forest Service and Air Force have yet to approve the revised design.
Rohrabacher and Gallegy are angered by the delay, which has left no C-130s capable of fighting fires on the West Coast. The last of the older-model C-130s with an original tank was retired by the California National Guard last year.
"It's an absolute tragedy, an unacceptable tragedy," Gallegy said.
The situation meant that rather than deploying C-130s from inside the state, Schwarzenegger was forced to ask Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to call in the six remaining older C-130s from other states as far away as North Carolina.
None of them began fighting the fires until Wednesday afternoon.
In the meantime, the state relied mostly on smaller retardant tankers that carry about a third of the C-130's 3,000-gallon capacity.
Gallegy said such firepower was sorely needed earlier.
"I have actually flown in one and pressed the button," he said. "I know what they can do."
====================================================
Sad
to those that lost their lives because of the failures of our Government.
10-25-2007 As wildfires were charging across Southern California, nearly two dozen water-dropping helicopters and two massive cargo planes sat idly by, grounded by government rules and bureaucracy.
How much the aircraft would have helped will never be known, but their inability to provide quick assistance raises troubling questions about California's preparations for a fire season that was widely expected to be among the worst on record.
It took as long as a day for Navy, Marine and California National Guard helicopters to get clearance early this week, in part because state rules require all firefighting choppers to be accompanied by state forestry "fire spotters" who coordinate water or retardant drops. By the time those spotters arrived, the powerful Santa Ana winds stoking the fires had made it too dangerous to fly.
The National Guard's C-130 cargo planes, among the most powerful aerial firefighting weapons, never were slated to help. The reason: They've yet to be outfitted with tanks needed to carry thousands of gallons of fire retardant, though that was promised four years ago.
"The weight of bureaucracy kept these planes from flying, not the heavy winds," Republican U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher told The Associated Press. "When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger."
Rohrabacher and other members of California's congressional delegation are demanding answers about aircraft deployment. And some fire chiefs have grumbled that a quick deployment of aircraft could have helped corral many of the wildfires that quickly flared out of control and have so far burned 500,000 acres from Malibu to the Mexican border.
Thomas Eversole, executive director of the American Helicopter Services & Aerial Firefighting Association, a Virginia-based nonprofit that serves as a liaison between helicopter contractors and federal agencies, said valuable time was lost.
"The basis for the initial attack helicopters is to get there when the fire is still small enough that you can contain it," Eversole said. "If you don't get there in time, you quickly run the risk of these fires getting out of control."
The first of the 15 or so fires started around midnight Saturday. By Sunday afternoon, fires were raging in Los Angeles, San Diego and Orange counties.
At the request of firefighters on the ground, at 4 p.m. Sunday the state Office of Emergency Services asked the National Guard to supply four helicopters. Under state rules, a California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection "spotter" must accompany each military and National Guard helicopter to coordinate water drops.
The spotters have 24 hours to report for duty, and it took nearly all that time for them and the National Guard crews to assemble. By the time they were ready to go, the winds had made it unsafe to fly.
The helicopters finally got off the ground Tuesday.
Mike Padilla, aviation chief for the forestry department, acknowledged the Guard's helicopters were ready to fly before the spotters arrived. He said state officials were surprised.
"Typically we're waiting for them to get crews," Padilla said.
The delay was even longer for Navy and Marine helicopters. They were ready to fly Monday morning but didn't get airborne until Wednesday morning, a period when the acreage that burned quadrupled to more than 250,000 and the number of homes destroyed jumped from 34 to more than 700.
The C-130 saga is a much different story.
More than a decade ago, Congress ordered replacement of the aging removable tanks for the military planes because of safety concerns and worries that they wouldn't fit with new-model aircraft. California's firefighting C-130 unit is one of four the Pentagon has positioned across the country to respond to fire disasters.
New tanks were designed, but they failed to fit into the latest C-130s. Designers were ordered back to the drawing board. Republican Rep. Elton Gallegy said Congress was assured the new tanks would be ready by 2003.
Four years later, the U.S. Forest Service and Air Force have yet to approve the revised design.
Rohrabacher and Gallegy are angered by the delay, which has left no C-130s capable of fighting fires on the West Coast. The last of the older-model C-130s with an original tank was retired by the California National Guard last year.
"It's an absolute tragedy, an unacceptable tragedy," Gallegy said.
The situation meant that rather than deploying C-130s from inside the state, Schwarzenegger was forced to ask Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to call in the six remaining older C-130s from other states as far away as North Carolina.
None of them began fighting the fires until Wednesday afternoon.
In the meantime, the state relied mostly on smaller retardant tankers that carry about a third of the C-130's 3,000-gallon capacity.
Gallegy said such firepower was sorely needed earlier.
"I have actually flown in one and pressed the button," he said. "I know what they can do."
====================================================
Sad
Some old growth southern forests - longleaf pines - require fire under natural conditions to seed. The fire also burns out 'hardwood' undergrowth which over time would dominate the forest . . .
You know, this is a lot of hype from the media on this story. Yes the fires are awful and the damage, but this is "typical". It happens almost every year, or other year. I remember in 1983 when I drove up from san diego to LA for business, the hills on both sides of the freeway were a blaze. It was like driving thru a movie set.
The problem has always been out there is that people build where they should not, like on cliffs, then wonder why their homes fall in the ocean. Southern CA is a desert. It gets rain in the spring, and thats it. You don?t build in places that you can not clear the brush away from your home, or the fires will eventually get you. Yes its worse this year, but in "this" case its not global warming or Bible prophecy. Its just a very bad year for fires.
The problem has always been out there is that people build where they should not, like on cliffs, then wonder why their homes fall in the ocean. Southern CA is a desert. It gets rain in the spring, and thats it. You don?t build in places that you can not clear the brush away from your home, or the fires will eventually get you. Yes its worse this year, but in "this" case its not global warming or Bible prophecy. Its just a very bad year for fires.
It's not a lot different than flooding.
There is a national pool for those that chose to live in flood prone areas they have to kick in payments established for that.
Why not Fire?
Also why is there not a Fire resistant housing code for this area?
Made of concrete block with fire resistant roofing.
Also there is a temporary gel available that fire cannot penetrate.
Just more of doing everything that can be done wrong here.
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 69,006
- 26,884
- 136
Dave your article on the helicopters and planes being grounded was just a grandstanding Congressman yapping in ignorance.
Forest Service fire aircraft rules were developed the hard way...people died...lesson learned...new rule...more people died...new lesson learned...new rule...
Forest Service fire aircraft rules were developed the hard way...people died...lesson learned...new rule...more people died...new lesson learned...new rule...
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,459
- 854
- 126
True but there is more fuel now. We had a wet winter a few years ago that created a lot of growth followed by a couple years of record low rainfall which left a lot a dry brush all through the canyons. I don't know if you can pin this directly on global warming or not though.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,251
- 8
- 0
Hannity had an environmentalist on his show today, and not some nut job, but a respected and knowledgeable one. And the environmentalist refused to blame this on global warming. He said that there is just not enough evidence to make the claim that global warming has anything to do with these fires. He also pointed out that there was a fire in the 1890s that was twice as big as these recent fires.
Fires in SoCal are like Hurricanes in Florida and the South East, they are going to happen and there is nothing you can do to stop them. All you can do is be prepared for when they hit.
Fires in SoCal are like Hurricanes in Florida and the South East, they are going to happen and there is nothing you can do to stop them. All you can do is be prepared for when they hit.
Dang Johnnie . . . . Way to be a voice of reason . . .
Who cares one way or the other at this point? We're Americans! We're 10-2! :shocked:
We should be thinking about the families and the personal devastation. The American people - not the Federal gov't - can do more for these folks than anyone. And maybe local law enforcement can catch the sum beeches that set some of the fires . . .
Most of the forestry dudes and dudettes I know (Praise be NC State! - at least until Nov 10th) have said for the long-term benefit of the forest/grasslands 'burns' can be a good thing . . . stimulates new growth and eliminates brush and undergrowth.
I can't comment other than to say more sadness:
10-29-2007 Former FEMA spokesman loses spy job
The man who staged a fake Federal Emergency Management Agency news conference has lost a chance to be National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell's top public information officer.
John P. "Pat" Philbin, FEMA's former external affairs director, who had been scheduled to move into the new job at the director of national intelligence office on Monday, will not be getting the job. The staged question-and-answer session was harshly criticized by both the White House and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, whose department oversees FEMA.
"We do not normally comment on personnel matters," DNI spokesman Ross Feinstein said Monday. "However, we can confirm that Mr. Philbin is not, nor is he scheduled to be, the director of public affairs for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence."
Feinstein said earlier that Philbin's job change had been put on hold while McConnell reviewed his record.
Philbin, who previously worked for the U.S. Coast Guard and the Anteon Corp., was involved with a hastily called televised FEMA news conference last Tuesday on the California wildfires.
The session was announced on short notice and featured questions for FEMA's deputy administrator, Vice Adm. Harvey Johnson.
No genuine journalists attended, although they were given a conference call number they could use to listen in ? but not ask questions. A half-dozen questions were asked at the event ? by FEMA staff members posing as reporters.
Philbin was among the six questioners, according to The Washington Post. The questions included: "Are you happy with FEMA's response so far?"
"I think it was one of the dumbest and most inappropriate things I've seen since I've been in government," Chertoff said later.
FEMA later apologized for the phony news briefing and said it was reviewing its procedures for dealing with news organizations.
===============================================
Doing a heck of a job as usual
10-29-2007 Former FEMA spokesman loses spy job
The man who staged a fake Federal Emergency Management Agency news conference has lost a chance to be National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell's top public information officer.
John P. "Pat" Philbin, FEMA's former external affairs director, who had been scheduled to move into the new job at the director of national intelligence office on Monday, will not be getting the job. The staged question-and-answer session was harshly criticized by both the White House and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, whose department oversees FEMA.
"We do not normally comment on personnel matters," DNI spokesman Ross Feinstein said Monday. "However, we can confirm that Mr. Philbin is not, nor is he scheduled to be, the director of public affairs for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence."
Feinstein said earlier that Philbin's job change had been put on hold while McConnell reviewed his record.
Philbin, who previously worked for the U.S. Coast Guard and the Anteon Corp., was involved with a hastily called televised FEMA news conference last Tuesday on the California wildfires.
The session was announced on short notice and featured questions for FEMA's deputy administrator, Vice Adm. Harvey Johnson.
No genuine journalists attended, although they were given a conference call number they could use to listen in ? but not ask questions. A half-dozen questions were asked at the event ? by FEMA staff members posing as reporters.
Philbin was among the six questioners, according to The Washington Post. The questions included: "Are you happy with FEMA's response so far?"
"I think it was one of the dumbest and most inappropriate things I've seen since I've been in government," Chertoff said later.
FEMA later apologized for the phony news briefing and said it was reviewing its procedures for dealing with news organizations.
===============================================
Doing a heck of a job as usual
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