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California to stop allowing new internal combustion light vehicles in 2035

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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
81,998
7,963
126
Jus' expressing myself about the attitude I share with so many other hotrod enthusiasts sans the technicalities of it all. Being "grandfathered" in (yeh, saying that makes me feel just that much older heh) was assumed on my part as a matter of course, just not a part of the point I was trying to make tongue in cheek wise.

Thanks for calling that out though.

I can't wait for the day I don't own a car. Just subscribe to JIT car rental. The municipality maintains the autonomous fleet and you hail one when you need one. So much less waste.
 
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PlanetJosh

Golden Member
May 6, 2013
1,439
52
91
Can't wait to spring for an EV some day, driving around so quiet or at least quieter. The battery. The battery will last forever with regular recharging right? Ok so it won't but I'm sure when it gets recycled it will never release anything bad into the environment.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
81,998
7,963
126
Can't wait to spring for an EV some day, driving around so quiet or at least quieter. The battery. The battery will last forever with regular recharging right? Ok so it won't but I'm sure when it gets recycled it will never release anything bad into the environment.
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
7,885
4,884
136
Can't wait to spring for an EV some day, driving around so quiet or at least quieter. The battery. The battery will last forever with regular recharging right? Ok so it won't but I'm sure when it gets recycled it will never release anything bad into the environment.
You'll sometimes see lithium ion batteries recycled as power sources for other things. For example, Nissan uses old Leaf batteries to power street lights. It can actually be a while before a battery's uses are truly exhausted.

The main concern with disposal isn't leaking, it's puncturing. Batteries can swell if they're pressured the wrong way. Fires are thankfully pretty rare and stem more from either poor product design (see: Galaxy Note 7) or situations where there's already a fire.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,712
1,020
126
I probably drive a lot more than most here-a light week is 500 miles plus, and several times a month I have a 200 mile plus day. I'd love to have a practical EV when the industry makes one. Tesla way too pricey and unreliable.

I'm driving a Prius Prime which is real nice in EV mode (the first 25-30 miles). Quiet and much peppier, and much cheaper operation.

I'm sure the industry can meet this goal by 2035. I've had 50+ years of paying for car repairs and maintenance, and the ICE is a huge source of those expenses.

2035 is a very reasonable goal IMO.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
3,720
158
106
You are more than welcome to find that data and post it here.

I have already pointed out how it is possible to get a car with a useful range today (200 miles plus) for $20k or less. Which was the specific concern of the poster I was responding to. I would bet that range would even be sufficient for several of your ‘pro’ use cases like Uber eats in a dense urban environment.

Btw the Yaris was axed after 2020. Unless Toyota comes up with another lower priced car the least expensive car will be the $20k base Carolla.
Why do I need to provide sources when your own is deficient in providing basic information regarding the statistical distribution? Talking about a statistical distribution without knowledge of the fundamental measurements behind it(median, standard deviation) might as well be parroting nothing at all. Rudimentary statistics. Without the requisite information, why should the underlying distribution be assumed to be the normal distribution, the t- distribution, etc. Faith and assumption has no place, obviously.


Grubhub and the likes can yank your chain all over the local area far worse than a pizza delivery job at Dominos. You could be asked to go 5 miles to the west and then have an order 10 miles back east. 2 hours can already gobble up 50 miles.
Proper quasi-taxi service requires
No one buys a car to do these jobs. The repurpose the ones they already have. 20,000 for a new technology and a tainted badge is not going to sway the savvier car buyers who go by the "3 years old, under 60,000" rule to find vehicles going for $10-15 thousand used.

Even without range anxiety, there is also the matter of infrastructure being tuned to the grid-independent nature of gas for decades rather than the grid-dependent nature of battery pack vehicles. Someone living in apartments built in the 70s or forced to deal with finding a street parking spot will not be able recharge the vehicle in the parking lot/street.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
19,282
10,094
136
Why do I need to provide sources when your own is deficient in providing basic information regarding the statistical distribution? Talking about a statistical distribution without knowledge of the fundamental measurements behind it(median, standard deviation) might as well be parroting nothing at all. Rudimentary statistics. Without the requisite information, why should the underlying distribution be assumed to be the normal distribution, the t- distribution, etc. Faith and assumption has no place, obviously.


Grubhub and the likes can yank your chain all over the local area far worse than a pizza delivery job at Dominos. You could be asked to go 5 miles to the west and then have an order 10 miles back east. 2 hours can already gobble up 50 miles.
Proper quasi-taxi service requires
No one buys a car to do these jobs. The repurpose the ones they already have. 20,000 for a new technology and a tainted badge is not going to sway the savvier car buyers who go by the "3 years old, under 60,000" rule to find vehicles going for $10-15 thousand used.

Even without range anxiety, there is also the matter of infrastructure being tuned to the grid-independent nature of gas for decades rather than the grid-dependent nature of battery pack vehicles. Someone living in apartments built in the 70s or forced to deal with finding a street parking spot will not be able recharge the vehicle in the parking lot/street.
You want to argue the stat is meaningless you get to provide your own evidence. If you can’t then just own that you can’t.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,095
992
136
I see a lot of really bad points being made in this thread over and over. Some key points people need to remember.

EV technology is progressing rapidly and will continue to progress significantly over the next 15 years. Battery capacities will continue to increase, and charging times will continue to decrease. Quit judging how this will impact people's lives based on today's technology when technology will have 15 years to advance.

Infrastructure will continue to expand over the next 15 years. Will every apartment have its own dedicated charging port? Probably not. Guess what, not all apartments even have dedicated parking. Some cities have ordinances in place to fix this, but not all. Note how cities can use legislation to make apartment owners adapt to the needs of their tenants. As an apartment owner, you probably would prefer to know this type of issue is coming.

15 years from now, people will still be able to buy used cars, or in other words, this does not mean that 100% of Californians will be driving electric cars in 15 years. Lots of people buy used cars. Its still common to see cars on the road from the 90s right now. You can easily find reliable used cars up to 10 years old. If people want a reliable gas vehicle, they shouldn't have any problems until maybe 2045. Additionally, people don't buy a new car every year. If you want a new gas car, buy one in 2034. There will probably be a spike in gas car purchases in 2034 as those that are holdouts panic buy one final combustion vehicle.

For 90% of the populations day to day driving, even a level 1 charger is sufficient. Overnight, a level 1 charger can give you about 70 miles of range. The average American drives about 30 miles per day. For those that drive more, the majority of people can put in a level 2 charger, particularly if the government provides tax rebates for those that do. For those that can't do either, the majority of them can use a level 3 charger to fill up while they are doing their shopping.

The market will almost certainly have us to where the vast majority of people are buying electric cars by 2035 regardless of what California does. The purpose of this type of legislation is to create a shared vision so that the transition goes smoother. It allows people to start addressing infrastructure concerns now rather than when problems start to surface.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,506
3,009
126
Even without range anxiety, there is also the matter of infrastructure being tuned to the grid-independent nature of gas for decades rather than the grid-dependent nature of battery pack vehicles. Someone living in apartments built in the 70s or forced to deal with finding a street parking spot will not be able recharge the vehicle in the parking lot/street.
So what you're saying is... there are going to be some changes.
 

ondma

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2018
1,741
556
106
You are more than welcome to find that data and post it here.

I have already pointed out how it is possible to get a car with a useful range today (200 miles plus) for $20k or less. Which was the specific concern of the poster I was responding to. I would bet that range would even be sufficient for several of your ‘pro’ use cases like Uber eats in a dense urban environment.

Btw the Yaris was axed after 2020. Unless Toyota comes up with another lower priced car the least expensive car will be the $20k base Carolla.
Not really. Mitsbishi has 2 models available for under 14K. link
 

local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,681
381
136
I probably drive a lot more than most here-a light week is 500 miles plus, and several times a month I have a 200 mile plus day. I'd love to have a practical EV when the industry makes one. Tesla way too pricey and unreliable.

I'm driving a Prius Prime which is real nice in EV mode (the first 25-30 miles). Quiet and much peppier, and much cheaper operation.

I'm sure the industry can meet this goal by 2035. I've had 50+ years of paying for car repairs and maintenance, and the ICE is a huge source of those expenses.

2035 is a very reasonable goal IMO.
I drive a bit more than that in a 15 mpg truck, thank you company fuel card!

The first step in getting somewhere is deciding where you want to go. Someone eventually had to make a mandate like this to get the industry moving. 2035 should be plenty of time for a lot of development to happen that would make this much more reasonable than it is today.

I grew up inhaling 105 octane exhaust and burnt rubber smoke from my elders love of drag racing and dirt circle track contests all while having my eardrums blown out from the fuelies warming up their skins. I have two hotrods from the sixties and the seventies that I completely restored myself and they are my pride and joy.

That being said, my wifey drives a 'lectric powered pony car and both my kids are wanting the same. Do I feel betrayed? Hell no, it's the future come a knock'in on my 'lil Corvett's exhaust pipes that farts sweet smelling avgas fumes.

I'm a relic of a storied past yet I look forward to the changes that improves the air I breathe and the water I drink, but you're gonna have to pry my dead and gone fingers off both of my ride's steering wheels to make me giv'um up to the authorities.
Amen.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,661
4,483
126
Then locales and HOAs should ease up "maintenance standards" first. Of course, once the ticks and mosquitos start crawling everywhere, then people will still maintain their lawn.
Also, mowers are four-stroke these days.
They should be battery powered. Whatever they are, they clearly don't have catalytic converters.
I am sure if anyone cared about people doing that work, they'd find higher rates of cancer and other problems from breathing those fumes all day at work. OSHA should ban them too.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,355
2,337
136
They should start with banning gas powered leaf blowers and lawn mowers. It's ridiculous that whole neighborhood has to smell 2-stroke engine exhaust because you are too lazy to rake your leaves or use electric tools.
The real issue is the competition between idiots to have the greenest lawn on the block, regardless of how many hundreds of pounds of chemicals they need to use to accomplish this. Chemicals which leach into the ground and waterways. If you are trying to impress your neighbors by how 'purty' your lawn is, your priorities are fucked up.
 

MrSquished

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2013
7,641
2,551
136
When I visit my sister in the burbs on weekends all I hear is the goddamn sound of leaf blowers.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,506
3,009
126
Here are two more likely reasons to switch to EVs.
Air pollution, I mean literal air pollution exhausted from the ICE, is now linked to Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/oct/06/air-pollution-particles-in-young-brains-linked-to-alzheimers-damage

It now seems likely that, we take random damage from exposure to such toxins. Sometimes that randomness adds up to catastrophic suffering. Rest of the time it merely dulls our IQ. We need to switch to EVs ASAP and California is doing the correct thing in leading the charge.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,199
8,526
136
Here are two more likely reasons to switch to EVs.
Air pollution, I mean literal air pollution exhausted from the ICE, is now linked to Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/oct/06/air-pollution-particles-in-young-brains-linked-to-alzheimers-damage

It now seems likely that, we take random damage from exposure to such toxins. Sometimes that randomness adds up to catastrophic suffering. Rest of the time it merely dulls our IQ. We need to switch to EVs ASAP and California is doing the correct thing in leading the charge.
That particulates are really bad for human health and we should stop making machines that churn them out should not be a controversial concept.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,568
18,119
136
Here are two more likely reasons to switch to EVs.
Air pollution, I mean literal air pollution exhausted from the ICE, is now linked to Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/oct/06/air-pollution-particles-in-young-brains-linked-to-alzheimers-damage

It now seems likely that, we take random damage from exposure to such toxins. Sometimes that randomness adds up to catastrophic suffering. Rest of the time it merely dulls our IQ. We need to switch to EVs ASAP and California is doing the correct thing in leading the charge.
So the "Dull IQ" effect and general mental retardation that tracks pretty well with the "coal roller types" is sort of a circular reinforcement thing?

huh.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,276
52
91
I think back to the 70's when I was a kid, lead was the antiknock agent . . . dain bramaged much? They used to tell you to put your glasses upside down so lead would not accumulate :)
 

ondma

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2018
1,741
556
106
Here are two more likely reasons to switch to EVs.
Air pollution, I mean literal air pollution exhausted from the ICE, is now linked to Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/oct/06/air-pollution-particles-in-young-brains-linked-to-alzheimers-damage

It now seems likely that, we take random damage from exposure to such toxins. Sometimes that randomness adds up to catastrophic suffering. Rest of the time it merely dulls our IQ. We need to switch to EVs ASAP and California is doing the correct thing in leading the charge.
Just to clarify, the data is preliminary and needs to be confirmed.
 

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