• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."
  • Community Question: What makes a good motherboard?

California to stop allowing new internal combustion light vehicles in 2035

Page 11 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,331
2,308
136
Honestly, most of the charging is done at home. At 10,000 miles I've done 85% of my charging at home. I don't know why people think it's hard to put in infrastructure for a lot less use.

I've only used superchargers for long trips and it added a tiny portion to the drive as I needed to stop for bathroom, food etc....

BTW total cost of ownership excluding car payment at 10k miles... $200.
Should that not be "energy" costs. There is also insurance, tires, depreciation, taxes, registration, etc., etc.

Did you have a charging station installed, at what cost?
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
22,920
1,135
126
Should that not be "energy" costs. There is also insurance, tires, depreciation, taxes, registration, etc., etc.
I've heard that the insurance costs on a Tesla are insanely high as well, because they basically have to total the car if suffers any frame damage.
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,866
42
91
Don't worry, apparently every residential parking space in California is somehow going to get its own electric charging station within the next 15 years. I guess that it doesn't matter that the industry hasn't even agreed on a single high speed charging standard yet... just get it done. The governor demanded it! :)
Even without the governor's demand, 15 years from now I bet most of the new vehicles will be electric. Look at how much VW is investing in their ev program. GM and Ford are also investing heavilyb in electrification. The EU and China regulations will speed this up and force our domestic manufacturers to invest in the transition as well.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,331
2,308
136
do you not grocery shop?
The absolute last place I shop for groceries is Wal-Wart. The meat, produce, anything fresh there sux. Plus you have to deal with having 1 maybe 2 checkouts open if they are busy, 3 if they are slammed, and the rest of the dregs of society that Wal-Wart attracts. Of course plenty of time to charge your ride, if the rednecks ain't parked in the way.
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,866
42
91
Something tells me your not adding in the additional dollars on your electric bill - and the bills from your stops at charging stations... which a super charger... aint cheap. at all.
Tesla charges .26 cents per kwh, my utility charges .16 cents per kwh, so it ain't cheap but still cheaper than gas in a lot of cases.
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,866
42
91
The absolute last place I shop for groceries is Wal-Wart. The meat, produce, anything fresh there sux. Plus you have to deal with having 1 maybe 2 checkouts open if they are busy, 3 if they are slammed, and the rest of the dregs of society that Wal-Wart attracts. Of course plenty of time to charge your ride, if the rednecks ain't parked in the way.
Whole foods has plugs available for charging if you want to avoid the dregs of society.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,753
360
136
Should that not be "energy" costs. There is also insurance, tires, depreciation, taxes, registration, etc., etc.

Did you have a charging station installed, at what cost?
Those costs at similar between a combustion engine car and a electric car, why would I compare? But point taken, Im just comparing between a BEV vs a internal combustion.

I installed my own 240 outlet, cost of $100 in parts.
 
Last edited:

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,753
360
136
Tesla charges .26 cents per kwh, my utility charges .16 cents per kwh, so it ain't cheap but still cheaper than gas in a lot of cases.
Time of use plans can usually lower that. My utility charges .06 off peak.

I've heard that the insurance costs on a Tesla are insanely high as well, because they basically have to total the car if suffers any frame damage.
Higher, a bit but not insanely so. My cost went from $450 every 6 months to $600. Is part of that because it's a tesla? Maybe, but a lot had to do with going from a 2010 to a 2020 car.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,753
360
136
Something tells me your not adding in the additional dollars on your electric bill - and the bills from your stops at charging stations... which a super charger... aint cheap. at all.
Something tells me, you're wrong. My electric cost is .06 per kWh. I use time of use billing, keeps the bills lower. I used that before the car too because I WFH so it works out. I track all charges, including super charger cost. A lot of my supercharges have been no cost. Don't know why, but Amarillo TX and Waco TX are no cost. I track every little cost for my car.

DarkgoldenrodDeepskyblueHoneycreeper.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: cytg111

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
22,920
1,135
126
We have a P100D model x and a model Y, rates were comparable to our previous cars.
What kind of car did you have previously? If it was something like a Porsche or BMW, that would probably make sense. If it was a Honda Accord, I'm not buying it.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,331
2,308
136
Whole foods has plugs available for charging if you want to avoid the dregs of society.
And when 2 out of 3 cars in the lot are EV, you think that not having enough check out lanes open is a bitch. Best case with a Level 3 charger is 30 minutes to 80% capacity. Power company is going to have to build a sub station nearby, if they are going to have sufficient charging stations.

Sam's Club here put in row of maybe 6 charging stations. Parking lot holds hundreds of cars.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,753
360
136
And when 2 out of 3 cars in the lot are EV, you think that not having enough check out lanes open is a bitch. Best case with a Level 3 charger is 30 minutes to 80% capacity. Power company is going to have to build a sub station nearby, if they are going to have sufficient charging stations.

Sam's Club here put in row of maybe 6 charging stations. Parking lot holds hundreds of cars.
That's not reasonable. Does everyone need to change every single time? Hell no. Do I plug in if its free and available? Sure. There is 0 reason everyone needs to plug in. Will long term it need to change? Yes, and if they all charge, that's an easy fix. Only those who need to plug in will.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,331
2,308
136
Those costs at similar between a combustion engine car and a electric car, why would I compare? But point taken, Im just comparing between a BEV vs a internal combustion.

I installed my own 240 outlet, cost of $100 in parts.
Nice you have the skills, and your home had some space in the electrical panel to add a double breaker. You realize that eliminates 90%+ of the people.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,753
360
136
Nice you have the skills, and your home had some space in the electrical panel to add a double breaker. You realize that eliminates 90%+ of the people.
Youtube, not that hard. I didn't have room, I swapped out 4 for 2 tandem breakers to make room. But even IF people need to add a outlet/breaker.... it costs $300-$500 unless you need a ton of work.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,331
2,308
136
That's not reasonable. Does everyone need to change every single time? Hell no. Do I plug in if its free and available? Sure. There is 0 reason everyone needs to plug in. Will long term it need to change? Yes, and if they all charge, that's an easy fix. Only those who need to plug in will.
Today no. Today gas vehicles are in the majority, and they have 24 or more gas pumps, and lines at everyone for what a 5 minute fill-up.
How is that going to work when the majority of vehicles are EV's and best case a "fill-up" is 30 minutes?
And many people come and go to Sam's without "fueling" their ride at all.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,753
360
136
Today no. Today gas vehicles are in the majority, and they have 24 or more gas pumps, and lines at everyone for what a 5 minute fill-up.
How is that going to work when the majority of vehicles are EV's and best case a "fill-up" is 30 minutes?
And many people come and go to Sam's without "fueling" their ride at all.
You're still making it sound a LOT worse than it would ever be. The large majority of people charge at home. It's cheaper and easier period. Do you drive 300 miles round trip to go to Sams? 90% of my charges have been at home, and /w 300 mile range, the only exceptions are long trips.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,331
2,308
136
Worst case scenario. Not so much for CA, but anywhere along the coast, Texas to the Carolina's. Big mother hurricane, CAT 4 or 5, is coming. Evacuate or die is the word.

But how many can't get more than 200'ish miles away on a charge, if fully charged, then what? People in southern FL need to travel 350 miles just to get out of the state.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,281
3,498
136
Worst case scenario. Not so much for CA, but anywhere along the coast, Texas to the Carolina's. Big mother hurricane, CAT 4 or 5, is coming. Evacuate or die is the word.

But how many can't get more than 200'ish miles away on a charge, if fully charged, then what? People in southern FL need to travel 350 miles just to get out of the state.
Reminds me of the mentality of pickup truck people. It's just so convenient to drag around an extra ton, and 4ft around if I might have to haul something occasionally.
 
Last edited:

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,753
360
136
Worst case scenario. Not so much for CA, but anywhere along the coast, Texas to the Carolina's. Big mother hurricane, CAT 4 or 5, is coming. Evacuate or die is the word.

But how many can't get more than 200'ish miles away on a charge, if fully charged, then what? People in southern FL need to travel 350 miles just to get out of the state.
I'm not going to argue stupid what ifs. By the time we had this many electric vehicles, we would have more infrastructure.

This goes both ways BTW... I can't count the # of times I've seen how there was a run on gas before a hurricane and most gas stations were low/out.

 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,331
2,308
136
Reminds me of the mentality of pickup truck people. It's just so convenient to drag around an extra ton, and 4ft around if I might have to haul something occasionally.
So it's better to not evacuate because you can't get far enough away and drown in your home, than to drown in your dead car on the side of the road?

Evacuations save lives. I live in the mountains, and we are don't get the devastation they cause, but we get swamped with people that are literately getting out of harms way to save their life.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,331
2,308
136
I'm not going to argue stupid what ifs. By the time we had this many electric vehicles, we would have more infrastructure.

This goes both ways BTW... I can't count the # of times I've seen how there was a run on gas before a hurricane and most gas stations were low/out.
True, gasoline is a "just is in the 'just in time' supply chain" and anything that interrupt that or ups the demand will cause shortages. A hurricane hitting Texas causes ripple shortages as far as the northeast because refineries shut down, thus pipelines, thus supply.

So lets assume that the power grid can sustain every single EV being charged at the same time, and they strike out for a safe place. Average EV goes 200+ miles, then needs at least 30 minutes to charge to 80% if they can find a Level 3 charger, otherwise longer.

This is one of those "what if's" as you seem to want to blow it off as, that keep people in emergency management and public safety up at night.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,753
360
136
This is one of those "what if's" as you seem to want to blow it off as, that keep people in emergency management and public safety up at night.
It's also why as we progress to a more "electric" society, the infrastructure will change also. We have more and more utility energy storage solutions coming out which is a good thing. It's good they are thinking about it because as we get to that point things need to adjust to our current environment. And as time goes on, we'll replace BEV too with something better.
 
Last edited:

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,212
8,054
136
There is a BIG difference between the migration from the horse and buggy and the automobile and the transition from gasoline to electric cars.

Electric cars honestly aren't a big improvement over gasoline cars for many people. They aren't going to get you to work much faster thanks to traffic. If anything, they add extra inconveniences to your life thanks to their slow charging. We also haven't had the "Model T" moment with Electric cars yet, where a low cost mass market vehicle is released that's a HUGE improvement over the status quo. Like I said before, a low cost long range electric car that's actually good would do far more to spur sales than some bad legislation trying to cram the cars down people's throats.
You sound really smart! Along the same lines of your thinking; why lead the way in an emerging market and dictate terms when you can follow after and be dictated to?!

China says thanks!

Remember that trade deficit that was so important to you guys when trump was running for president? Way to keep your eye on the ball!

Oh and the big difference between the horse and buggy and the car, you dumb ass, was the massive infrastructure we invested in to make the car feasible.

I guess because it’s 2020, it’s the year of hindsight!
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY