California Spends $21 Billion Annually to Support Undocumented Immigrants

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,585
50,769
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Well he's either an idiot (I doubt it) or specifically ignoring the reality of our current (and long term) situation in order to paint a false economic rosy picture of "Free Trade" in general and its impact on the average US worker and job sector in this nation.

I'm neither. I strongly support market efficiencies coupled with social safety nets. Trade protectionism is burying your head in the sand.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,585
50,769
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lol @ idiots calling people xenophobes yet they have never ever once lived in the area or have any clue what the fuck they are talking about. they aren't adding anything that wouldn't already be added. you know if illegals weren't taking all of these "lower paying jobs" someone else would do it at a price that they thought was fair, a legal resident/citizen. Now if that rose the cost of living to high, well then we would have to attack that problem. What we're doing currently is using a PROBLEM to try and fix another PROBLEM, which is the cost of living in California. If more citizens/legal residents had to work these lower paying jobs we might see the cost of living decrease in California.

I lived in the area for a decade, and he's right. Please link to a single source that says the cost of living in CA would go down without immigrant labor.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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I lived in the area for a decade, and he's right. Please link to a single source that says the cost of living in CA would go down without immigrant labor.

Did you even read what I said? We could address the issues that would arise with the disparity between pay and cost of living. There is no reason for us to allow this illegal problem. In fact I'm going to flat out state that illegal immigration causes higher costs of living in California because it doesn't allow us to address the core issues due to it driving people out of the low end market and saturating the middle/higher paying jobs market which is killing the cost of living making services that much more expensive.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,585
50,769
136
Did you even read what I said? We could address the issues that would arise with the disparity between pay and cost of living. There is no reason for us to allow this illegal problem. In fact I'm going to flat out state that illegal immigration causes higher costs of living in California because it doesn't allow us to address the core issues due to it driving people out of the low end market and saturating the middle/higher paying jobs market which is killing the cost of living making services that much more expensive.

Again, please link to a single source that says illegal immigration is making cost of living more expensive for Californians.
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
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Do some of you ever stop to think of this issue in a non-utilitarian way? I mean, a person's worth is not how much monetary value he can create per annum. If we were to go down that path, we can justify creating a semi-utopian society that discards, rejects, and deems worthless anyone who does not qualify according to a preconceived set of standards. Such thinking can lead to horrific pogroms. This, I believe, is the liberals' reason for supporting illegal "aliens".

Noble in thought, but deleterious to the society. This dichotomy between self and selflessness, sometimes to the point of absolute idiocy, is the fundamental rift between "left" and "right".

We, as humans, are far too comfortable making justifications for unjust actions so long as it affects "others".

Yet, a nation, or rather, the government of a nation, is responsible for protecting the interests, both tangible and otherwise, of its citizens, whatever the definition may be. Thus, supporting illegal immigrants, no matter how poignant their individual stories may be, is foolhardy and highly detrimental to the citizens' interests in the long run.

People who come here through legal channels to create a better life for themselves and their kin are always welcome; at least, that is what America has been about for the past 200+ years. It is the fundamental reason America is economically so far ahead of every other nation. We, as American citizens, must never lose that quality; inviting with open arms the talent of the world. It is highly disheartening, however, that some people, whose ancestors not so long ago, came here "illegally", are so taken up with jingoism and ready to put up barricades for not only illegal immigrants, but legal, resourceful, and highly valuable immigrants for petty reasons such as race, religion, and culture. It is a dangerous line to tow and I hope common sense will prevail in the long run.

Getting back to the OP's point, California does spend an enormous amount of resources on illegal immigrants and services for them. It is a slap in the face for the citizens and legal immigrants of the state whose hard-earned money is spent like water on services where they see no direct benefit. The tax evasion by illegals is also in the billions and so the disparity, although hard to pinpoint, is highly skewed.

As some others have suggested, California's public schools suffer because of the illegal immigrants as well. As harsh as it sounds, their children, whose mother tongue is not English, find it difficult to cope up with the academics in school and so lag far behind other students causing a ripple effect in the whole system.

Illegals also can get driving licenses in CA! It is preposterous but it is too late IMO. Any attempt at corrective legislation will backfire tremendously and politicians, who are perennial opportunists, will hardly take up the cause publicly.

The next few decades will be quite interesting to say the least.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
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Okay. Now, how much do illegals ADD to CA's economy? Many of them pay income and sales and property and payroll taxes. Almost all of them are consumers and support local businesses. Also, because they're a cheap labor force, how much do Californians SAVE over what they'd have to pay if only more expensive labor were available?

Somehow, these BENEFITS of illegals are never mentioned by xenophobes. Merely stating the cost side of the equation is blatantly dishonest.

First of all, asking ALL immigrants to follow existing immigration laws is xenophones now? I have been looking around and developed nations such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc. are required ALL immigrants to get permission before they could able to cross the border and enter. All sovereign nations have policies to control anyone who wants to enter or leave.

Secondly, if ILLEGALS are so beneficial, then why none/nada/zero countries on earth encourage more ILLEGAL immigration? Please name one, just one country on earth that would let anyone freely jump the border and entering ILLEGALLY.

Like I said before, the US did not have tens of million of ILLEGALS 20 to 30 years ago and its economy was fine back then and it will be ok if all the ILLEGALS are gone.
 
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Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
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uh fyi most taxpaying californians support this which is why they elect the politicians they do. if you dont like it go somewhere else

They are more comfortable believing in their dog-whistle racist stories like fairytale anchor babies and the brown wave taking over. F'em, we live in CA, they don't. Sucks to be them. :D

I hope their old asses are freezing their butts off right now while ranting about 'dem dere kaliforneeya Mesikans takin the jerbs!! It's a great day today.

Matter of fact, I am going to lunch at my favorite independent Mexcian place here in a few, I will make sure to tip the "illegal" wait staff an extra 10$ "from our red state friends".
 
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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Again, please link to a single source that says illegal immigration is making cost of living more expensive for Californians.

You can't find me one that proves otherwise. It has never happened, the studies can't be done because to much work would have to change to fix the problem. Just because you're unwilling or to lazy to fix it doesn't mean we shouldn't.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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They are more comfortable believing in their dog-whistle racist stories like fairytale anchor babies and the brown wave taking over. F'em, we live in CA, they don't. Sucks to be them. :D

I hope their old asses are freezing their butts off right now while ranting about 'dem dere kaliforneeya Mesikans takin the jerbs!! It's a great day today.

Matter of fact, I am going to lunch at my favorite independent Mexcian place here in a few, I will make sure to tip the "illegal" wait staff an extra 10$ "from our red state friends".

I'm California born and raised, I can guarantee I have rubbed elbows with far more illegals than you have, including working along side them for the same pay doing the same shit work. I'm 100% a white boy, for the first half of my life I grew up as a minority in a mostly Hispanic area. One on one I have never had a bad experience with an illegal alien, but I completely and utterly disapprove of what they have done to get here and them staying here. You are just some brain dead idiot who cannot see how detrimental it is to the USA and Mexico that we allow the current status quo to continue.

No large majority of Californian's approve of the illegal situation, just a very loud and whiny minority.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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You're forgetting that they get free health care, education for their children, and government handouts. BIG drains.

I'm not forgetting anything. The OP stated that there were costs. But he completely ignored the benefits. Until a full accounting of both costs and benefits is carried out, merely stating what the costs are is telling only half the story.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
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No large majority of Californian's approve of the illegal situation

Which ones? The White squatters or the Latino folks? :confused:

White folks always have to have someone else to bitch about/blame, whats new under the sun?
 
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nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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Free movement of labor is also a component of free trade. Again, argue for trade protectionism if you want, but recognize that's what you're arguing for.

LOL@U! If it's OK to let masssive numbers of illegal blue collar workers come into this country then we should also let all the professional workers who are standing in line to come to this country LEGALLY come in unfettered also.

Competition is just asgood for the goose as it is for the gander.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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Speak for yourself "100% Whiteboy".

Whatever you say buddy. Sounds like you don't care much for your fellow man. We help perpetuate the problems of Mexico by allowing their poor to come here illegally. You fail to grasp the entire situation, you're just some selfish idiot.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
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Oh how cute, look at the racist.

I am only quoting his pathetic attempt at a appeal to authority/majority fallacy by inserting his race.

This thread is stormfront worthy anyhow. Bunch of white folks bitching and lying about people outright and no one ever calls them on it. P&N is a known "white pride friendly forum" already in knucklehead circles thanks to these stupid threads.
 
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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I am only quoting his pathetic attempt at a appeal to authority/majority fallacy by inserting his race.

yes because me giving you a little backround into my personal life history is my "pathetic attempt at an(ftfy) appeal to authority/majority". or do you not care why I may view things the way I do? You're just a "you're wrong, I'm right" guy, no compromise, no debate. What a waste of time it is to even talk to you.

You don't see the vast problems with Mexico? You wouldn't like to see a peoples revolution for the BETTERMENT of the Mexican people? It isn't going to happen unless we give the poor no other option. Currently they can come up here to escape it, which is good for them(kinda), but bad for the rest of Mexico and bad for the United States as a whole. Mexico is a huge trade partner with us and I would rather see a 1st world Mexico flourish than a beat down people who are only appreciated for their "slave wage" work.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
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You're just a "you're wrong, I'm right" guy, no compromise, no debate. What a waste of time it is to even talk to you.

You just pretty much described P&N.

I do care, but how the hell can anyone have discussion when the forum is full of racist made-up shit like "anchor babies" and "welfare leeches". Shit in shit out.

You guys want to come on the real about the problems like Mexico, lets do it. Lets discuss neo-liberalism, free trade/vs fair/imperialism labor artbitage, history of migration of the area, drug war.

The usual conclusion that people make here before even starting to type is that somehow Mexico is full of "lesser" people. Unfortunately TV has provided enough phrases to be ambiguous enough racism is easy to ignore, that is unless you are looking outside, then it is plain as day. (and a good part of folks in here are outwardly racist anyhow and dont even bother trying to be moderate)
 
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chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,016
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How about just securing our border and asking all the people here illegally to leave, since, you know, they're here illegally?

Is that too much to ask?
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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You just pretty much described P&N.

I do care, but how the hell can anyone have discussion when the forum is full of racist made-up shit like "anchor babies" and "welfare leeches". Shit in shit out.

uh.... "anchor babies" and "welfare leeches" aren't racist made-up shit. they do exist, maybe not in the capacity some idiots claim or would like to use the terms to identify all illegals by, but they do exist.

response to your edit - I hope you're not implying that I think of Mexicans as inferior people. Also, if you would like to discuss those other things you're more than welcome to shoot me a pm or ask me my opinions on them.

I personally am against the drug war and for complete legalization of all drugs to be sold through pharmacies by pharmacists.
 
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