California police use of body cameras cuts violence and complaints

[Kadarin]

Police do not get a license to kill, I don't know where you heard that from.

Pfft. "Contempt of Cop" carries a potential death sentence. "Stop resisting!" *chokehold*

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Accountability. Imagine that...

**Police public unions and the forces and interests they represent** across the country will be fighting against this with every ounce of energy they have.

FTFY.

 

[Joepublic2]

it's kind of fucked up to live half your yearly life under court subpoenable and supervisor reviewable video.

just think of all the times you want to be yourself when you are not dealing with the public, you are afraid your jokes or anything can be used against you.

someone might have made a funny/crude joke, but you are afraid of laughing or joining in because what if someone is purposely video taping you or accidentally is?

makes you feel like a fucking robot


I get it, video contact is great for police. But forcing everyone to wear one is sort of fucked up. If your department is full of idiots and complaints are rampant...then DO it. But once there is no need to constantly monitor your employees, give them some god damn personal freedom.

You're a servant of the public in an atomized, post-trust society. DWI.

 

[JEDIYoda]

At some point you may get your wish. This is a very slippery slope to 24/7 constant moniting.

Businesses could see huge potential out of reviewing workers daily routines. Imagine a new yearly review where they break down every specific thing you do and overanalyze it to their own benefit.

Employee #1232, you are almost at you 13% allotted time for relaxation/break time. This is a reminder that any additional non-producitivy will be deducted from your Paid Time Off account. Are you feeling well? Would you care to speak with a representative of Human Resources?

Employee #432, Your video recordings are being reviewed for a violation notice of workplace sexual harassment policies. You directed a sexual slur to an employee. Review the following recording for an opportunity to challenge the automatic allegations. "Bro, dont be such a pussy! etc. etc. etc."


You can take your damn thought police and take it to UK or Russia. I want to say whatever the hell I want and do whatever the hell I want without constanty wondering if someone is literally watching over my shoulder.



again YOU as in people supporting mandatory personal recordings

so!! oh boohoo cry m a river......

 

[ch33zw1z]

I guess that's the downside of police cameras, anything you say is now going to be on record, forever.

It's only a downside of you can't control what you say.

I'm glad that the police are required to wear these.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

it's kind of fucked up to live half your yearly life under court subpoenable and supervisor reviewable video.

just think of all the times you want to be yourself when you are not dealing with the public, you are afraid your jokes or anything can be used against you.

someone might have made a funny/crude joke, but you are afraid of laughing or joining in because what if someone is purposely video taping you or accidentally is?

makes you feel like a fucking robot

I'm not sure what you're afraid of. Complaints didn't increase due to funny/crude jokes at all. In fact they were reduced by almost 90%. That's a HUGE win for cops. It seems like your argument is "even though I only get 10% of the complaints as before, I'm afraid I will get MORE complaints." Doesn't make any sense. Unless you just LIKE beating ass and you realize this rule might take that pleasure/job perk away from you.

Besides, if I say something funny/crude at my work, I can get fired, too. So can just about everyone else in every other job. Why do you think that you should be special and different and get to do those things without repercussion?

That said, I'd hope these things can turn off when you're in the bathroom

 

[piasabird]

So does anyone question if it is legal to video someone inside their house without their consent? If you did this to police it would be wiretapping in some states.

In a public place anyone can record what you say or do on a cell phone. On private property different rules apply.

 

[RandomWords]

I agree with the cameras. I can see where the issue can get out of hand though. However, not only will it cause the police to behave better - it will also cause the perps to behave better - which is something that people don't seem to factor in to the complaint decreases... part of the decrease is because EVERYONE knows they are being recorded - not just the police - and it is from the BEGINNING of the confrontation and not somewhere in the middle where the perp just happens to start recording.

So does anyone question if it is legal to video someone inside their house without their consent? If you did this to police it would be wiretapping in some states

This is true. It will then become legal to do so by proxy of the police being required to wear such cameras... and some sort of reasoning like, the cop was there so this is just an accurate description of what he saw - yadda yadda would be said... which is true and what sparked the comment above that EVERYONE will behave better. This would be excluded from any wiretapping laws most likely. Would it be legal evidence to present in court? - it will be legal to use it against a cop in court - so I'm sure it would work both ways.

 

[fleshconsumed]

It's only a downside of you can't control what you say.

I'm glad that the police are required to wear these.

That's the problem. Even if you can control what you say, there are still 10,000 ways how it can come and bite you in the ass later.

Any time this topic comes up I'm always reminded of this youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I think everybody should watch it in full at least once in their lives. Or better yet, everybody should watch it at least once a year to remind themselves not to talk to the police or be very very very careful on what to say.

 

[BoberFett]

That's the problem. Even if you can control what you say, there are still 10,000 ways how it can come and bite you in the ass later.

Any time this topic comes up I'm always reminded of this youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I think everybody should watch it in full at least once in their lives. Or better yet, everybody should watch it at least once a year to remind themselves not to talk to the police or be very very very careful on what to say.

How do the cameras make that problem any worse?

As it is, the cops can claim you said or did anything, and they'll get the benefit of the doubt because they're cops.

 

[-slash-]

it's kind of fucked up to live half your yearly life under court subpoenable and supervisor reviewable video.

just think of all the times you want to be yourself when you are not dealing with the public, you are afraid your jokes or anything can be used against you.

someone might have made a funny/crude joke, but you are afraid of laughing or joining in because what if someone is purposely video taping you or accidentally is?

makes you feel like a fucking robot


I get it, video contact is great for police. But forcing everyone to wear one is sort of fucked up. If your department is full of idiots and complaints are rampant...then DO it. But once there is no need to constantly monitor your employees, give them some god damn personal freedom.

Dont want to wear a camera 24/7, dont be a cop. Nobody is forcing someone into police office employment.

Its a genius idea. It provides evidence for either the cop or the accused that is non biased. It holds cops to a standard.

 

[fleshconsumed]

How do the cameras make that problem any worse?

As it is, the cops can claim you said or did anything, and they'll get the benefit of the doubt because they're cops.

If you've watched the youtube video there are two ways you can be implicated. The first way is an officer can intentionally lead you to answer a certain question in a certain way that would implicate you. If an officer have an agenda then no, a camera will not make it worse. The second way is you can implicate yourself on your own by accident by telling some kind of half-truth or something that would conflict with pre-existing evidence or testimony. In this case the camera may make it worse on you because it makes it easier to catch those half-truths that an officer would otherwise forget to write down in a report.

I'm not saying that police cameras are a bad thing. On the contrary, the evidence says it helps reduce the number of complaints. However, I do think this means you have to be extra careful in your interactions with police now as it will be easier to recall anything you say if it ever were to be used in a court of law against you.

 

[-slash-]

If you've watched the youtube video there are two ways you can be implicated. The first way is an officer can intentionally lead you to answer a certain question in a certain way that would implicate you. If an officer have an agenda then no, a camera will not make it worse. The second way is you can implicate yourself on your own by accident by telling some kind of half-truth or something that would conflict with pre-existing evidence or testimony. In this case the camera may make it worse on you because it makes it easier to catch those half-truths that an officer would otherwise forget to write down in a report.

I'm not saying that police cameras are a bad thing. On the contrary, the evidence says it helps reduce the number of complaints. However, I do think this means you have to be extra careful in your interactions with police now as it will be easier to recall anything you say if it ever were to be used in a court of law against you.

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you?”

IE, shut the fuck up. Problem solved.

 

[ch33zw1z]

That's the problem. Even if you can control what you say, there are still 10,000 ways how it can come and bite you in the ass later.

Any time this topic comes up I'm always reminded of this youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I think everybody should watch it in full at least once in their lives. Or better yet, everybody should watch it at least once a year to remind themselves not to talk to the police or be very very very careful on what to say.

do this, and you'll be fine.

my older son has about 4 more years (he's just turning 8) until he gets the real police talk, for now...it's go get an officer, at 11 or 12, it'll be stfu, and answer yes or no questions only, and only those pertinent to the situation at hand. If or when arrested, don't say a word to the police, it's not a requirement.

 

[Svnla]

This is a good idea and if everything is working, we will not have "just standard police work" vs. "police brutality". We will able to see who is telling the truth.

And I agree with Flesh about watch what you say with cops. Be courtesy, cooperative and all but not be too friendly and spill your gut.

 

[mizzou]

Dont want to wear a camera 24/7, dont be a cop. Nobody is forcing someone into police office employment.

Its a genius idea. It provides evidence for either the cop or the accused that is non biased. It holds cops to a standard.

everyone should hold themselves to a standard and wear cameras then.

we act like everyone else is so precious that they couldn't possibly wear mandatory cameras all the time....we are talking about FORCING people to wear cameras and record their behavior. FORCE.

Voluntary is fine, if you voluntarily want to do this awesome, it has a TON of benefits depending on what type of work you are doing.

Why aren't we outraged that surgeons and doctors aren't wearing these to prevent malpractice suits? Why aren't we outraged that school teachers aren't wearing these when we know they are lying about our children? Why aren't we outraged when politicians aren't wearing these when we know they are lying and costing everyone lives and money?

Fact of the matter is this: We want cameras on police to force them to be liable for their actions. Why? Because it's an important job where people often go to court for something they did or did not do. In a minute chance, you may have suffered physical injury or serious injury while dealing with the police. A camera gives a great opportunity to relive those moments from a completely objective point of view.


So why just stop at police? There are many other professions out there that cause injustice and result in $$$$ lost and pain/suffering.

Why do police have to be FORCED to wear this shit, when we could just as easily justify FORCING everyone else to wear them?

I have yet to hear an argument why police are really so unique that they need body mounted cameras vs. every other single profession. Every argument can be applied to other important jobs.

 

[cytg111]

Excellent. (I hope they can switch it off though).

 

[mizzou]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DYcxF_Yd70

this is why they are good, I like them, but I just worry about people being so coy about turning this country into Big Brother.

 

[RandomWords]

Why aren't we outraged when politicians aren't wearing these when we know they are lying and costing everyone lives and money?

Please YES to this one... those crafty bastards would find a way around it though.

So why just stop at police? There are many other professions out there that cause injustice and result in $$$$ lost and pain/suffering. Why do police have to be FORCED to wear this shit, when we could just as easily justify FORCING everyone else to wear them?

This is also a good point... doctors mess up often and blame the patient or nurse or it isn't discovered until months later when the patient can't really prove it... or all cars requiring a dash cam (which some places do require - like insurance) so who is at fault can be determined easily. It is a way of controlling behavior and people and holding them accountable for actions they would likely lie their way out of... and once it is established in police departments - it can easily start working its way into other departments and then to our lives. It will take so many years though, it is doubtful people will even notice.

 

[ch33zw1z]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DYcxF_Yd70

this is why they are good, I like them, but I just worry about people being so coy about turning this country into Big Brother.

Big brother to me is not equal to a small amount of people who are public employees in law enforcement wearing body camera's. Big brother is video surveillance in cities, warrantless wiretapping, collection of phone calls, phone records, texts, etc.. all of this of your everyday "joe", and all of this into a brandy-new data center in Utah.

This camera thing keeps LEO's and citizens in the honesty zone, in a situation where it's very much needed.

 

[BoberFett]

Stop being an idiot mizzou.

 

[RandomWords]

Big brother to me is not equal to a small amount of people who are public employees in law enforcement wearing body camera's

He's just thinking of long term effects... which I can see it going down that road and having many unpleasant consequences. All issues like you quoted start of with small steps - "for the good of the general public" - It could very well lead to city surveillance (off your list) given enough time - along with many other things... a problem is always easier to stop when it is smaller... but first the majority has to realize their own rights are hanging in the balance - it isn't just the rights of the police; but the citizen as well who encounters them.

 

[MrPickins]

So does anyone question if it is legal to video someone inside their house without their consent? If you did this to police it would be wiretapping in some states.

In a public place anyone can record what you say or do on a cell phone. On private property different rules apply.

From what I understand their dash cam already records audio if the officer is in wireless range.

Video isn't that much different.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Why do police have to be FORCED to wear this shit

They aren't being FORCED to wear cameras; they can get a different job any time they want. Stop being so melodramatic.

Plus, knowing that complaints were reduced by 90%, I'd think you'd be speeding to the nearest electronics store to get yourself one. Can't you just be honest and admit that the 60% drop in use of force is the main issue here? Because apparently having 1/10th the current amount of complaints against you is not a good enough benefit to give up all the unnecessary ass kickings.

 

[-slash-]

everyone should hold themselves to a standard and wear cameras then.

we act like everyone else is so precious that they couldn't possibly wear mandatory cameras all the time....we are talking about FORCING people to wear cameras and record their behavior. FORCE.

Voluntary is fine, if you voluntarily want to do this awesome, it has a TON of benefits depending on what type of work you are doing.

Why aren't we outraged that surgeons and doctors aren't wearing these to prevent malpractice suits? Why aren't we outraged that school teachers aren't wearing these when we know they are lying about our children? Why aren't we outraged when politicians aren't wearing these when we know they are lying and costing everyone lives and money?

Fact of the matter is this: We want cameras on police to force them to be liable for their actions. Why? Because it's an important job where people often go to court for something they did or did not do. In a minute chance, you may have suffered physical injury or serious injury while dealing with the police. A camera gives a great opportunity to relive those moments from a completely objective point of view.


So why just stop at police? There are many other professions out there that cause injustice and result in $$$$ lost and pain/suffering.

Why do police have to be FORCED to wear this shit, when we could just as easily justify FORCING everyone else to wear them?

I have yet to hear an argument why police are really so unique that they need body mounted cameras vs. every other single profession. Every argument can be applied to other important jobs.

What the fuck?D:

You want to talk about FORCE, WE DO NOT FORCE THEM TO BE POLICE. They are forced to wear a uniform are they not? Are you going to bitch and moan about that? For christs sake man, a job is a privilege not a right, play by the rules or bug out.

I'm not even reading beyond the first sentence, the lunacy in which you are deriving your stance from is down right scary. I agree with BoberFett, stop being an idiot.