California parks could be seized buy the fed ?

[Modelworks]

Feds are threatening to take some of the parks from CA if they cannot afford them.

Not sure how that makes the situation better. It is almost like the state selling some of itself back the fed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...could-be_n_224141.html

SACRAMENTO, Calif. ? California officials said Wednesday they are trying to avert the federal government's threat to seize six parks that could be closed to help reduce the state's ballooning budget deficit.

National Park Service Regional Director Jonathan Jarvis warned in a letter to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger that all six occupy former federal land that could revert to the U.S. government if the state fails to keep the parks open.

The sites are Angel Island, a former federal military and immigration facility in San Francisco Bay; the top of Mount Diablo east of San Francisco, where the Navy once operated a microwave relay station; Point Sur State Historic Park in coastal Big Sur; and three beaches _ Fort Ord Dunes near Monterey, Point Mugu State Park near Malibu, and Border Fields along the Mexican border.

The properties are among the 220 state parks Schwarzenegger has proposed closing to save $143 million. Legislators are considering the move as part of efforts to close a $26 billion budget deficit.

The Republican governor has rejected Democratic proposals to add a $15 fee to annual vehicle registrations to raise money to run the parks.

"Lands conveyed to the State under the Federal Lands to Parks Program must be open for public park and recreation use in perpetuity as a condition of the deed," Jarvis warned in a June 8 letter to Schwarzenegger made public Wednesday.

The state could also lose future parks funding, Jarvis warned. California has received $286 million from the federal government since 1965 benefiting 67 parks on Schwarzenegger's closure list, Jarvis said.

Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Lisa Page said state parks director Ruth Coleman was talking with Jarvis about the issues raised. "They are discussing a variety of outcomes and solutions depending on what final budget package is passed by the Legislature," Page said.

The National Park Service's California project manager, David Siegenthaler, said reducing the parks' hours or days of operation, for example, could save money while allowing public use during peak periods.

"We want to work with them to see what those options might be, because we don't want to close parks, and I'm sure they don't want to either," Siegenthaler said.

 

[senseamp]

Better than closing them like that idiot Schwarzenegger is proposing.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Better than closing them like that idiot Schwarzenegger is proposing.

It almost seems like the Fed was just renting them to CA. They are yours as long as you make the payments, but miss payments and we repossess.

 

[OCGuy]

If we didnt support illegals and actually cut a few programs from the fat, we wouldnt be having this issue.

 

[senseamp]

OC went bankrupt first.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: OCguy
this is me blaming all the problems of California on the illegals, yipee

Fixed. :laugh:

 

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: OCguy
If we didnt support illegals and actually cut a few programs from the fat, we wouldnt be having this issue.

yes...it's all the illegal's fault . BTW, is there a thread that you are not in? Seriously, you give the title "Lifer" a run for its money.

 

[DealMonkey]

If those MF'ing idiots in the legislature would put their heads together and hammer out a compromise that featured both massive cuts in services as well as some modest tax/fee increases, we could actually pass a budget and prevent this stupid shit from happening. But no, they have to act like moronic children, stamping their feet, and refusing to compromise. And Schwarzenegger doesn't get off the hook either, you'd think he'd be down there, oh I don't know, actually LEADING this process? Jesus tapdancing christ, this is politics at its absolute worst.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Originally posted by: OCguy
If we didnt support illegals and actually cut a few programs from the fat, we wouldnt be having this issue.

yes...it's all the illegal's fault . BTW, is there a thread that you are not in? Seriously, you give the title "Lifer" a run for its money.

Apparently you didnt read my whole post, because I obviously blamed something other than illegals.

As far as the personal attack on my post count..........who are you again?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: OCguy
this is me blaming all the problems of California on the illegals, yipee

Fixed. :laugh:

That is much more plausible than blaming a Governor who only approves budgets, and who's (D) controlled congress wont cut any programs.


Maybe if it all falls apart we can actually start from the ground up with necessity only. :thumbsup:

 

[StageLeft]

Why does CA even want them? I presume they cost more to maintain than they make in revenues (the other thread said as much). This way somebody else pays maintenance and CA gets all the tourism benefits outside of the park, like hotels, etc.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
If those MF'ing idiots in the legislature would put their heads together and hammer out a compromise that featured both massive cuts in services as well as some modest tax/fee increases, we could actually pass a budget and prevent this stupid shit from happening. But no, they have to act like moronic children, stamping their feet, and refusing to compromise. And Schwarzenegger doesn't get off the hook either, you'd think he'd be down there, oh I don't know, actually LEADING this process? Jesus tapdancing christ, this is politics at its absolute worst.

There are no more taxes to bring in revenue. Any more will kill revenue.

 

[First]

You'd think that people would stop blaming illegals for CA's problems after it was debunked for the 100th time. They pay more in sales tax, federal tax (voluntarily, amazingly), jobs, and businesses than they take in from social services. Get over it.

It's almost as if some posters want people to laugh at their intellectual dishonesty.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Evan
You'd think that people would stop blaming illegals for CA's problems after it was debunked for the 100th time. They pay more in sales tax, federal tax (voluntarily, amazingly), jobs, and businesses than they take in from social services. Get over it.

It's almost as if some posters want people to laugh at their intellectual dishonesty.

Maybe they don't believe it; I sure don't. Upper echelons of the economy drag along the lower from a tax & spend point of view, and illegals are super-low in the chain.

 

[First]

^ It has been discussed ad nauseum and debunked as many times. It's almost impossible for illegals to take in more from social services than they pay in sales tax alone. Think of it this way; more than 2/3rds of GDP is consumer spending in the U.S., how the hell can illegals suck up more in social services than they contribute in sales tax via their food/clothing/housing-related consumption? Walmart has a system set up for illegals who can't legally open checking accounts, where they have to pay a fee to cash checks. This has been going on for many, many years. There hasn't been a single credible study that shows illegals take in more than they give back, even if you assume worst-case scenario valuation methods of illegal's downward pressure on wages. And all the moaning about downward wage pressure ignores the overwhelmingly positive benefit they bring in business start-ups, which create jobs, and the fact that many join the military and services in general to eventually become citizens.

 

[alien42]

"The Republican governor has rejected Democratic proposals to add a $15 fee to annual vehicle registrations to raise money to run the parks."

:thumbsdown:

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Closing parks are not the problem. Programs are the problem.

 

[sapiens74]

Too bad the average family can't just Raise taxes when they are short funds.


Let the Fed take it!

Both are broke!

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Evan
^ It has been discussed ad nauseum and debunked as many times. It's almost impossible for illegals to take in more from social services than they pay in sales tax alone. Think of it this way; more than 2/3rds of GDP is consumer spending in the U.S., how the hell can illegals suck up more in social services than they contribute in sales tax via their food/clothing/housing-related consumption? Walmart has a system set up for illegals who can't legally open checking accounts, where they have to pay a fee to cash checks. This has been going on for many, many years. There hasn't been a single credible study that shows illegals take in more than they give back, even if you assume worst-case scenario valuation methods of illegal's downward pressure on wages. And all the moaning about downward wage pressure ignores the overwhelmingly positive benefit they bring in business start-ups, which create jobs, and the fact that many join the military and services in general to eventually become citizens.

Ok, illegals don't exactly have loads and loads of cash but you argue that spending is a huge chunk so they give back more than they take. By that reasoning pretty much EVERYONE gives back more than they take which begs the question why is this state even running dry on cash if we give so much? In this society it's pretty obvious there are those who pay their fair share and more while there are those on the lower part of the pyramid that give less but take more. Just look at the income tax burden.

 

[Slew Foot]

I think we can agree that most illegals are along the poverty line interms of wages earned. That would mean that theyre not exactly paying huge amount of state or federal tax. So lets say they're making 30K yr under the table, half of that gets sent back to mexico, leaving 15kx8%=$1000 in sales tax revenue per illegal assuming he spends the entire 15K left over (not counting food or rent which isnt taxed as far as I know). So one illegal goes to jail and costs the state 30k/yr. Another goes to the ER with TB and costs the state 10K in medicine. Another gets run over on the 5 freeway and costs 200K in hospital bills. Another dumps their 8 kids into the school system and costs the state 64K.

Yeah Im thinking they take more than they get, just like any other person near the bottom of the economic rung.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Yeah Im thinking they take more than they get, just like any other person near the bottom of the economic rung.

Legal or illegal, the people at the bottom of the labor force always use more tax revenue than they produce.

Should we just deport all minimum wage earners and train monkeys to work our factories and fields?

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Evan
You'd think that people would stop blaming illegals for CA's problems after it was debunked for the 100th time. They pay more in sales tax, federal tax (voluntarily, amazingly), jobs, and businesses than they take in from social services. Get over it.

It's almost as if some posters want people to laugh at their intellectual dishonesty.

Maybe they don't believe it; I sure don't. Upper echelons of the economy drag along the lower from a tax & spend point of view, and illegals are super-low in the chain.

Yeah I'm gonna have to dig up a study i read a while back that laided out the 'break even point' for taxation, spending, etc... im alittle hazy on the numbers now but...IIRC...

As it turned out a single person breaks even at about 70-80k/yr income (i.e. you put in as much as you get out)
A family with one kid was like 180k/yr and add about 30-35k/yr per kid thereafter.

so the take home was about 90% of country, to some extent, sucks off the tit of other 10% of the population.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: Evan
^ It has been discussed ad nauseum and debunked as many times. It's almost impossible for illegals to take in more from social services than they pay in sales tax alone. Think of it this way; more than 2/3rds of GDP is consumer spending in the U.S., how the hell can illegals suck up more in social services than they contribute in sales tax via their food/clothing/housing-related consumption? Walmart has a system set up for illegals who can't legally open checking accounts, where they have to pay a fee to cash checks. This has been going on for many, many years. There hasn't been a single credible study that shows illegals take in more than they give back, even if you assume worst-case scenario valuation methods of illegal's downward pressure on wages. And all the moaning about downward wage pressure ignores the overwhelmingly positive benefit they bring in business start-ups, which create jobs, and the fact that many join the military and services in general to eventually become citizens.

Ok, illegals don't exactly have loads and loads of cash but you argue that spending is a huge chunk so they give back more than they take. By that reasoning pretty much EVERYONE gives back more than they take which begs the question why is this state even running dry on cash if we give so much? In this society it's pretty obvious there are those who pay their fair share and more while there are those on the lower part of the pyramid that give less but take more. Just look at the income tax burden.

Oh don't you go bringing that common sense up in this piece!!

But yeah really... by Evan's argument public bankruptcy should be impossible.

The harsh reality is that the media and other interests have been manufacturing 'facts' that illegals don't hurt CA's bottom line.

Aside from all the economic considerations... lets not forget that they are breaking the law by being here in the first place.

 

[ccbadd]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Yeah Im thinking they take more than they get, just like any other person near the bottom of the economic rung.

Legal or illegal, the people at the bottom of the labor force always use more tax revenue than they produce.

Should we just deport all minimum wage earners and train monkeys to work our factories and fields?

What a stupid reply! Are all minimum wage earners breaking the law????
If they did, I bet the legal would get the punishment the law prescribes. Why do you feel they can ignore the law without suffering the consequences like the legal citizens of this country do?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: alien42
"The Republican governor has rejected Democratic proposals to add a $15 fee to annual vehicle registrations to raise money to run the parks."

:thumbsdown:

So just keep piling on fees and taxes on the people? How about cut some of the stupid ass programs and stop enabling people to be lazy worthless piles of shit. Though if that concept ever caught on, there would be no democrats left and we couldn't read posts from Phokus and jpeyton anymore.