California OKs Cap & Tax

[IceBergSLiM]

You know that weather and climate aren't the same thing, right?

nice dodge...your splitting hairs...answer the question.

 

[cubby1223]

Patranus on the Japanese Tsunami:

'The tide is going to rise, the tide is going to go down, next week, next month.'

Craig on the Japanese Tsunami:

'The Tsunami was a direct result of the far right extremist propaganda and corporate funding. "Progressives" have anyways stood on a platform of no Tsunamis.'

Save234

 

[fskimospy]

nice dodge...your splitting hairs...answer the question.

The fact that you think it's splitting hairs proves you don't have the foggiest clue as to what you're talking about.

 

[momeNt]

This is getting out of hand.

Any civil libertarian must hate or at the very least be dubious of the idea of cap and trade versus a Rothbardian type approach of personal property rights.

Cap and trade takes away the bargaining rights of individuals and puts it in the power of the state.

http://mises.org/daily/2120

 

[IceBergSLiM]

The fact that you think it's splitting hairs proves you don't have the foggiest clue as to what you're talking about.

keep running, your cornered...

They were not studying climate hundreds of years ago , if anything they tracked weather day to day in a specific locale.

answer the question.

 

[fskimospy]

keep running, your cornered...

They were not studying climate hundreds of years ago , if anything they tracked weather day to day in a specific locale.

Oh sweet jesus. You think your inability to understand the difference between weather and climate is a checkmate on me? Your example of what you think constitutes data from hundreds of years ago shows that you genuinely don't understand what we're talking about. The best part is that someone this ignorant is trying to lecture ME on how foolish I am.

Before we continue this discussion you need to go educate yourself on the basic terms under discussion and the nature of historical climate data.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Oh sweet jesus. You think your inability to understand the difference between weather and climate is a checkmate on me? Your example of what you think constitutes data from hundreds of years ago shows that you genuinely don't understand what we're talking about. The best part is that someone this ignorant is trying to lecture ME on how foolish I am.

Before we continue this discussion you need to go educate yourself on the basic terms under discussion and the nature of historical climate data.

lulz. you got nothing for me.....show me the evidence please! If the evidence is just as solid as the fossil record proving evolution then let me see it.

 

[sandorski]

its pretty simple, you are drawing conclusions from evidence that isn't their. Their is simply no evidence to suggest climate change has anything to do with humans.

/facepalm

 

[momeNt]

I think its something like over the last 150 years the average temperature of the world has raised .8 kelvin, from 288.0 to 288.8

58.73F - 60.17F

14.85C - 15.65C

 

[Patranus]

I think its something like over the last 150 years the average temperature of the world has raised .8 kelvin, from 288.0 to 288.8

58.73F - 60.17F

14.85C - 15.65C

And do you have incontrovertible proof that this was due to humans?

 

[IceBergSLiM]

And do you have incontrovertible proof that this was due to humans?

obviously not because the historical record of the human race is completely unreliable beyond 2000 years ago.

 

[fskimospy]

 

[momeNt]

And do you have incontrovertible proof that this was due to humans?

No I don't. some people do believe it's because of humans, others do not. Either side has their fair share of skeptics and also those that fanatically believe it as if it was a religion.

I prefer to be a skeptic, I feel that the best scientists are probably never satisfied and always remain skeptical, someone who has settled on whatever facts they attain and think them sufficient begins to treat science as a religion.

 

[bfdd]

You didn't just really use the 'you don't know what the weather is going to be tomorrow' argument against climate change, did you? I seriously hope you understand why that's dumb.

Climate change is real, someone needs to do something about it. This needs to be a federal effort however, not a state one. States are too small to do what needs to be done.

climate science is the aggregate of weather science. That's why I kept making it longer to signify the switch over. Eskimospy how many projections from 01 were right? Eh? Show me all the models that got it right. They don't exist. I have asked you and others to produce these things before and you never can so just shut the fuck up about it.

 

[zsdersw]

The concept that mankind is accelerating or otherwise altering natural shifts in climate strikes me as something we cannot adequately prove or disprove. We simply don't have enough data.

What is certain is that there are natural shifts in the Earth's climates. Areas that are currently hot or cold, wet or dry will not always be hot or cold, wet or dry. We as a human society should be prepared for those shifts, but it should be quite obvious that government action is a poor tool to use in that effort, beyond ensuring that the consumer/supplier dynamic (in all things) can be maintained.

 

[First]

http://science.slashdot.org/story/1...rmed-By-Independent-Study?utm_source=slashdot

Study funded by the Koch bros find Global Warming is real.

You have to be seriously, significantly slow to deny it at this point.

 

[Darwin333]

No problem with that. Can we start getting our tax dollars back now?

No. Matter of fact, more will be required very soon. You will be informed of exactly how much more when they finally decide. Thanks in advance.

 

[Patranus]

http://science.slashdot.org/story/1...rmed-By-Independent-Study?utm_source=slashdot

Study funded by the Koch bros find Global Warming is real.

You have to be seriously, significantly slow to deny it at this point.

Read the fucking article.
All it states is that there is a slight temperature increase over 200 years.
The study does NOT show that CO2 or any other activity by man had anything to do with it and THAT is what the debate is about.

 

[woolfe9999]

http://science.slashdot.org/story/1...rmed-By-Independent-Study?utm_source=slashdot

Study funded by the Koch bros find Global Warming is real.

You have to be seriously, significantly slow to deny it at this point.

Ouch. I bet the Kochs want their funding back.

 

[fskimospy]

Read the fucking article.
All it states is that there is a slight temperature increase over 200 years.
The study does NOT show that CO2 or any other activity by man had anything to do with it and THAT is what the debate is about.

The unreliability of temperature data was one of the primary arguments made by denialists in opposition to global warming. This is just yet another nail in the coffin.

 

[First]

Read the fucking article.
All it states is that there is a slight temperature increase over 200 years.
The study does NOT show that CO2 or any other activity by man had anything to do with it and THAT is what the debate is about.

lmao troll.

 

[drebo]

Well this certainly seems like a well thought out answer! We will just travel back in time and stop New Orleans from being built.

Now, since the DeLorean is in the shop, lets deal with the world as it exists today. The question should be if the amount of productivity created by the city of New Orleans is greater than what it costs to build a system of pumps and levees to keep it productive. The answer to that seems to be pretty obviously 'yes', so the answer is absolutely to fix the symptoms of stupid.

Ok, so instead of learning from what's happened in the past and, you know, not being stupid, you would rather try to CHANGE THE WEATHER PATTERNS OF THE ENTIRE PLANET?

That's completely reasonable.

 

[Fern]

-snip-

Guess we get to see what a disaster this will be in CA before the "progressives" try this on a national level.

Exactly why "states'" rights are a good thing. Let each be the 'little laboratory' the Founding Fathers envisioned.

Look forward to seeing the economic impact of this for CA and whether the cap-n-trade system turns out to be anything much than cash cow for govt and a few of their favored toaddies who profit off of it.

CO2 is plant food. All this crap wrt MMGW is a fancy way of avoiding the obvious solution: Quit cutting down trees and paving over grass. (That's assuming a bit more CO2 is actually problem.)

Fern

 

[SparkyJJO]

Huh? Different goals. Cap and trade is a method by which to control an environmental problem in the most cost efficient way possible, it is not primarily designed for revenue generation.

LOL

It has all the markings of being money driven. Purchasing "carbon credits" does nothing for the environment, it just 1) costs businesses more, which in turn costs the customers more, and 2) gives the government more money from the taxes.

Well, for a short while anyway, until the companies outsource yet even more to get away from such tax increases. And then at that point, the money that the politicians were planning and "budgeting" for (if you can even call what most politicians do a "budget") suddenly no longer exists and they're in an even deeper hole.

 

[Zebo]

As will those of us who have no political affiliation and think it was a terrible idea. More legislation based on "science". lols, yo what's the weather gona be like tomorrow Craig? How about in a week? 2 years from now? 15 years from now? lols, idiot no one knows the answer to these questions with any amount of certainty because we're still in the process of discovering variables. We should not be taking on business restraining regulation, especially in this economy. We're making it MORE EXPENSIVE TO DO BUSINESS HERE. The only ones who will be able to afford it are the giant entities with the cash reserves to afford it, you know those giant corps with insane CEO pay you hate so much.

Those who act based on the whims of their hearts never stop to take the time to use their brain.

Quality of life costs money. That's the whole problem with free trade. TANSTAAFL and you get below w/o regulation. Jobs but at a price. Is it worth it? I think not.