California looking to impose a tax per mile driven

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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
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Whoever floated this idea obviously didn't leave enough time between his/her usage of "medicinal" marijuana and the start of the next work day.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
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Have to keep the existing vehicle working at tip top shape. Not going to pay twice for some politician's pet project that they want to spend $$ on.

Be very difficult to get the Feds to back it. To many rural states with high mileage roads. Only way would be to remove gas tax and allow each state to institute their own brackets like they do for income tax.
CA wants $0.10 let them. NV may only want a third of that. Live in LA or SF, the rate might be bumped to support pollution efforts or a pet project.

Just like the lottery money for education, the pols will see a cash vow and milk it dry.

Yeah, what to stop you "tin foil hatting" the GPS before you leave the garage and taking it off when you get home?

GPS faults would have to be mandatory fixes to stop that very occurance, like how some manufacturers handle Clean Diesel DPF fluid running out. This prevents people from disabling or interering with the GPS as much as possible. You can put in devices on overpasses and roadside that query passing cars wirelessly on what they think their GPS position is, matched with what is locked into the checking station, and if it's blank/wrong, flag that vehicle as an issue vehicle. Have consistent problems? Don't get them fixed? Not a problem, here's your fine. Or even better, your car doesn't run (it'd be the same as filling up and driving off without paying...a crime).

The amount of vehicles that would game the system on average would be very small. Just need to try and implement the technology such that it can't be scammed, or, if so, it's detectable and the fines are there to make people think twice on the scamming.

This should replace Fed, State, and Local gas taxes, so it's a national system. Even better, since GPS is in the vehicle, one has navigation as an option on every vehicle. Implemented on a map based system onboard (updated via cell push), one doesn't need your phone or a Garmin or whatever...it's right there.

Lets say though this isn't done. In 50 years, when electric vehicles are the norm, how are they going to pay for the roads? How will they pay for them fairly?

Chuck
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
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Wow, I expect anyone pushing this crap to be voted out of office or otherwise out of a job in short order.

You can't keep giving these clowns money and power and expect anything other than a circus.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
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i agree with the tax per mile idea. Even paratial by weight. but in exchange the gas tax should be dropped
 

the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
2,956
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I don't understand why this has to be GPS based. They can just have you self report every year when you renew the registration and have the DMV verify the reading every few years when the vehicle is inspected. Of course a smart person would wait until the year they were going to get the car inspected because of the time value of money, but that isn't that big of a deal.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,458
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I don't understand why this has to be GPS based. They can just have you self report every year when you renew the registration and have the DMV verify the reading every few years when the vehicle is inspected. Of course a smart person would wait until the year they were going to get the car inspected because of the time value of money, but that isn't that big of a deal.

Or they could just make every road but residential roads toll roads. That is whats more likely to happen in the future than anything in this thread.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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It seems like there is a MUCH easier way to do a per-mile tax...increase the gas tax. Sure, it costs more per mile for less efficient vehicles (which may be desirable anyways) and you can't do it differently at different times of day, but it's a much less complicated way to achieve basically the same goal.

Of course the problem is that pushing for an increase in the gas tax would be political suicide far more than this crazy scheme.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
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It seems like there is a MUCH easier way to do a per-mile tax...increase the gas tax. Sure, it costs more per mile for less efficient vehicles (which may be desirable anyways) and you can't do it differently at different times of day, but it's a much less complicated way to achieve basically the same goal.

Of course the problem is that pushing for an increase in the gas tax would be political suicide far more than this crazy scheme.

how much less damage/wear does a prieus do to a road vs a corrolla?

Why should on car pay 30-40% less for the same road usage?
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
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That (increasing petro taxes) would work fine, except for electric vehicles. In the mid-term future, how is the tax going to be handled since no (or very little) petro will be used?
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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how much less damage/wear does a Prius do to a road vs a corolla?

Why should on car pay 30-40% less for the same road usage?


Big trucks do most of the damage/wear.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...wrecking-our-roads-not-paying-fair-share.html

One five-axle, 80,000-pound truck does the same amount of damage to the pavement as your car — if you made the same trip 10,000 times. The big semis and overweight trucks make up a fairly small percentage of the total vehicles on the road, but they consume the road faster than the family car because of their extreme weight and the physical forces they impose. These trucks are especially hard on bridges. No number of axles can reduce the enormous stress they impose on bridges, the most expensive and most at-risk elements of our state’s highway system.
http://fuelfix.com/blog/2012/07/13/...on-to-fix-roads-damaged-by-drilling-activity/

The surge of drilling in Texas has brought thousands of jobs for Texans, but it might come at the cost of public roads, officials said.

The Texas Department of Transportation has told industry and local officials that it could cost more than $2 billion to fix roads damaged by the increased drilling activity, The Fort Worth Star-Telegram reported.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
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which is why in an earlier post i said that weight should be a factor.

my point with the hybrid vs similar sized car was that the hybrid does the same amount of damage to the road but pays less for it.

it should also be an ethier or tax. we ethier have a gas tax, or a per mile tax. and no gps
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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how much less damage/wear does a prieus do to a road vs a corrolla?

Why should on car pay 30-40% less for the same road usage?

The easy answer is that the gas tax approach isn't perfectly fair, but it's a decent way to have a usage tax without requiring vehicle tracking systems.

The more complex answer is that a road usage tax should take into account more than physical wear and tear on the road. Pollution and using limited energy resources is an impact that is related to driving that it seems reasonable to base a tax on. The Corolla may place as much wear and tear on the road as a Prius, and take up as much space, and cause as many traffic issues, but it's burning a lot more gas doing it.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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We really need to get our big trucks off the road or make special roads for them to travel on. It's a bit ridiculous how fucking quick a street repair can get ripped up when you have 18 wheelers driving over it.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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That (increasing petro taxes) would work fine, except for electric vehicles. In the mid-term future, how is the tax going to be handled since no (or very little) petro will be used?

It's also possible that the "road tax" idea is one who's time has passed. Roads benefit everyone, even if you don't drive. Maybe paying for them with regular income/property taxes would be a reasonable solution.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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It's also possible that the "road tax" idea is one who's time has passed. Roads benefit everyone, even if you don't drive. Maybe paying for them with regular income/property taxes would be a reasonable solution.

That's probably true as well. Could maybe tack it on to sales tax? 1/2 cent tax or some crap?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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Color me surprised



NOT

That's because you are rich and doesn't affect you.

This will punish the working poor even more.

Another step towards all out full revolt so I approve of the new added tax as well.

Bring it

How can that be since Democrats have the governorship and a supermajority in the Assembly, and they're the party of the little guy and poor unlike those mean old Republicans?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Electric/Hybrids may use less fuel, however they are not going to be plentiful enough to have a serious impact on fuel taxes until the cost comes down closer to the combustion equivalent, range hits a minimum of 250-300 and recharging can be done while eating a sit down meal.

Ask why the Volts are sitting on dealer lots. Why very few Leafs are on the interstates?
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,493
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i thought about this a while back and posted a thread in P&N.

gas tax works better than mile tax - the heaviest vehicles that damage the roads the most also are going to be the ones using a ton of fuel.
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
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81
If Californians are so smart and so enlightened then why did they climb on the fail boat so long ago and push into a river headed for a 1000 foot waterfall?
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
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every 10 years you drive with that stupid gps thing you get a $10k credit towards a new car. that way you keep the roads filled with nice efficient and safe cars. for those who dont want gps, and odometer reading will do but you will not be eligible for the 10/10 law.

i could be an american law maker.
 
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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
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So, I guess the alternatives are increasing the gas tax a lot or the income tax, sales tax etc.

Or just cut the salaries of those in government to sustainable levels. How did they ever get by before all these ridiculous taxes? Government expenses go up when times are good, but never fall back to pre-good times levels when times get bad. Why is that?

If my income falls short, I can't just go rob the governor, I have to cut back on my lifestyle.

If ever faced with this, I will be rolling back my odometer daily, and anyone trying to install shit in my property without my consent will find their ashes dumped in a random cement mixer.
 
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Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
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Or just cut the salaries of those in government to sustainable levels. How did they ever get by before all these ridiculous taxes? Government expenses go up when times are good, but never fall back to pre-good times levels when times get bad. Why is that?

If my income falls short, I can't just go rob the governor, I have to cut back on my lifestyle.

If ever faced with this, I will be rolling back my odometer daily, and anyone trying to install shit in my property without my consent will find their ashes dumped in a random cement mixer.

you say that now, but in the end you will be assimilated
don't fight it
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
And this is why I don't live in the bay area (actually, one of several reasons, but this one would actually be at the bottom of the list).
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Or just cut the salaries of those in government to sustainable levels. How did they ever get by before all these ridiculous taxes? Government expenses go up when times are good, but never fall back to pre-good times levels when times get bad. Why is that?

If my income falls short, I can't just go rob the governor, I have to cut back on my lifestyle.

If ever faced with this, I will be rolling back my odometer daily, and anyone trying to install shit in my property without my consent will find their ashes dumped in a random cement mixer.

Part may be salaries. Most is pet projects and empire building as well as feel good programs.

All sorts of spending gets "justified", but no one wants to pay for them.