California in a Constitutional crisis?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 4644
  • Start date
Aug 23, 2000
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I can't wait for California to fail. IT will show the rest of the nation that the massive entitlement programs can't work and it will shut the Obama adiministration up in trying to force health care.
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
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Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I can't wait for California to fail. IT will show the rest of the nation that the massive entitlement programs can't work and it will shut the Obama adiministration up in trying to force health care.

Of course, you still have the examples of Canada, Western Europe, Australia, Japan, etc...
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,616
6,170
126
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I can't wait for California to fail. IT will show the rest of the nation that the massive entitlement programs can't work and it will shut the Obama adiministration up in trying to force health care.

Your reasoning is Fail.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,983
9,076
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The California recall failed.

Sure, it replaced the governor who oversaw us getting into this mess, but our failed policies did not stop. The legislature continued massive deficit spending and the new governor's attempts to block them were defeated at the ballot in 2004. He did not have the power to stop them.

The people of California are getting exactly what they voted for. The new governor was nothing put lipstick on a dead pig, but they forgot to replace the pig. The legislature had to go, it still has to go. You must remove them before California will see the light of day again.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
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Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I can't wait for California to fail. IT will show the rest of the nation that the massive entitlement programs can't work and it will shut the Obama adiministration up in trying to force health care.

Hoping for the nations most populous state with a gigantic economy to fail = pathetically unamerican.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,983
9,076
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Originally posted by: senseamp
The two thirds majority requirement basically makes this state ungovernable.

Because, to govern requires spending money you don't have in excess of 10 years? At some point whoever is buying your debt has bought enough of it. At some point you might try living within your means, and only spending money you actually have.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,983
9,076
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Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I can't wait for California to fail. IT will show the rest of the nation that the massive entitlement programs can't work and it will shut the Obama adiministration up in trying to force health care.

Hoping for the nations most populous state with a gigantic economy to fail = pathetically unamerican.

America became the world's super power with capitalism. To get rid of this modern failed socialism experiment is entirely American.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: senseamp
The two thirds majority requirement basically makes this state ungovernable.

Because, to govern requires spending money you don't have in excess of 10 years? At some point whoever is buying your debt has bought enough of it. At some point you might try living within your means, and only spending money you actually have.

To govern requires that people take responsibility. With 2/3rds requirement, 1/3rd can block legislation without taking any responsibility for providing an alternative.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,983
9,076
136
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: senseamp
The two thirds majority requirement basically makes this state ungovernable.

Because, to govern requires spending money you don't have in excess of 10 years? At some point whoever is buying your debt has bought enough of it. At some point you might try living within your means, and only spending money you actually have.

To govern requires that people take responsibility. With 2/3rds requirement, 1/3rd can block legislation without taking any responsibility for providing an alternative.

That specific legislation you're referring to are tax increases, no?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
The California recall failed.

Sure, it replaced the governor who oversaw us getting into this mess

No, it recalled a Democratic governor who balanced the budget by ending the suspension of a fee that had been suspended temporarily during the dot com boom years.

The people of California are getting exactly what they voted for. The new governor was nothing put lipstick on a dead pig, but they forgot to replace the pig. The legislature had to go, it still has to go. You must remove them before California will see the light of day again.

No, the Republican legislators who are causijng the problems by having ad abusing a veto power because of budgets requiring 2/3 vote have to go. We need a majority rule.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: senseamp
The two thirds majority requirement basically makes this state ungovernable.

Because, to govern requires spending money you don't have in excess of 10 years? At some point whoever is buying your debt has bought enough of it. At some point you might try living within your means, and only spending money you actually have.

To govern requires that people take responsibility. With 2/3rds requirement, 1/3rd can block legislation without taking any responsibility for providing an alternative.

That specific legislation you're referring to are tax increases, no?

Absolutely. The biggest problem is that the state legislators and proposition voters can pass spending bills by a simple majority, but need to have 2/3rds majority to pay for them. So we have a lot of incentives to vote for new spending without fear of getting higher taxes in return. All carrot, no stick when it comes to spending money responsibly. Result is obvious. Another failure of the Republican "starve the beast" ideology.
I wouldn't buy bonds from a state where 2/3rds majority is required to raise funds to repay me.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
you libnuts are so funny. deflecting the problem by pointing out you need 2/3 votes to raise taxes. the problem is too much spending. and i can guarantee you they will still be short (in the future) even if it was simple majority to raise taxes.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
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Ha-ha!

Chalk that up as empirical evidence that legislature via direct democracy (propositions) is a FAIL and so is crazy lefty government.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: bamacre
Obviously CA just needs a central bank that can print money.

They issue debt just like the federal gov't ... oops, there goes your argument. But don't let logic get in the way of dogma. All hail the ron paul.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
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the 2/3 majority required to increase taxes is the only thing keep the state from being a cesspool of democratic overtaxation. If anything, the requirement for new spending should be 2/3rd as well.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
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Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: bamacre
Obviously CA just needs a central bank that can print money.

They issue debt just like the federal gov't ... oops, there goes your argument. But don't let logic get in the way of dogma. All hail the ron paul.

But can they monetize their debt?
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
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Where did our money go?

So looking at the past five years, where did that "extra" $10.2 billion of state spending above the rate of inflation and population growth go? The Mercury News found:

[*] The state prison system received the biggest share, about $4.1 billion of it. Corrections spending has increased fivefold since 1994. At $13 billion last year, it now exceeds spending on higher education. Tough laws and voter-approved ballot measures have increased the prison population 82 percent over the past 20 years. Meanwhile, former Gov. Gray Davis gave the powerful prison guards union a 30 percent raise from 2003 to 2008, increasing payroll costs.

[*]Public health spending ? mostly Medi-Cal, the state program for the poor ? received $2.9 billion above the rate of inflation and population growth. Part of that spike is due to an aging population; part is rising national health care costs. But state lawmakers also expanded Medi-Cal eligibility among children and low-income women a decade ago, increasing caseloads.

[*]Schwarzenegger's first act as governor, signing an executive order to cut the vehicle license fee by two-thirds, blew a large hole in the state budget. It saved the average motorist about $200 a year but would have devastated the cities and counties that had been receiving the money. So Schwarzenegger agreed to repay them every year with state funds. That promise now costs the state $6 billion a year, or $2 billion more than the rate of inflation and population growth since early 2003.

[*]Spending on a few other areas, such as higher education, general government, transportation and environment, also grew faster ? by about $1 billion each ? than inflation and population over the past five years. That was mostly to cover debt payments on bonds that voters approved for parks and highways, along with moves to limit university tuition increases.

[*]Finally, general fund spending on K-12 schools and social services, like welfare, actually grew less than the rate of inflation and population growth.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I can't wait for California to fail. IT will show the rest of the nation that the massive entitlement programs can't work and it will shut the Obama adiministration up in trying to force health care.

Hoping for the nations most populous state with a gigantic economy to fail = pathetically unamerican.

America became the world's super power with capitalism. To get rid of this modern failed socialism experiment is entirely American.

You can want California to become less socialist without hoping for the state to fail. It is in EVERYONES best interests that California does not fail as a state.
 

Trevelyan

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2000
4,077
0
71
This crisis SHOULD have the effect of forcing California to find the least neccessary programs and stop spending money on them.

THAT is the only long term solution. Raising taxes or getting loans do not fix the problem of EXPENSES BEING LARGER THAN INCOME.

I don't think that making it easier to raise taxes will help this problem. Do you?
 

RyanPaulShaffer

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
3,434
1
0
The writing is on the wall for the failed socialist experiment that is California. The lefty liberals will whine and point fingers all they want, but the facts speak for themselves. California is a true blue state, and has been for quite some time.

The logical way out of this mess is what everyone else would do in this dire financial situation: hunker down, cut costs and stop spending so much money. Unfortunately, that is impossible for the typical liberal, so they will tax and borrow their way into even deeper debt to keep up the status quo.

That, or the state will get a federal bailout, so the rest of us will be paying for the mistakes of California. :|
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
They need to start taxing Marijuana sales more. Some counties where it is legal to grow, everyone's yard is filled with it. That can only mean they are selling it big time.

I saw a report on this on the TV but cant remember who made the TV Show. It was very interesting. I say follow the money.