California bans a bunch of stuff. Cuz they like to ban things under the assumption life will somehow get better.

[Torn Mind]

Have you ever owned battery powered tools? The batteries might last a few years...or not, but they're not forever.

When we lived in CA, you could "trade in" any gasoline mower + (IIRC) $200 and get a brand new electric push mower.
They ran that deal a couple of times per year...and never had a problem selling out...then, you'd see the "BNIB Electric Mower" pop up on Craigslist in a week.

It's indirect stimulus for the electric sellers

The populace not being handy contribute plenty to carbon penalty. Gas powered are a problem because they became bricks far too soon moreso than the emissions; the ethanol in fuel sure contributes to that. Carb gunking, water in the tank, rusting body. Mower might be only 3 years old and it's landing on the free or discount section of craigslist if the person actually is aware of that.

Electrics last longer but the brushes are the eventual sure failure point and in the pre-Youtube age, would brick them rather than open them up. Or at least have to take them to a B&D shop.

 

[nakedfrog]

Also, as liberal as parents are today I'm sure they have no trouble finding gender-neutral toys. I really dont know if forcing California stores to keep such toys in stock is demanding of a law.

That's not what it says, it says they have to have toys in a section that's not specifically labelled "boys" or "girls".

But this part...
"Part of it is to make sure if you're a young girl that you can find a police car, fire truck, a periodic table or a dinosaur,"

LOL WUT

 

[nakedfrog]

Electrics last longer but the brushes are the eventual sure failure point and in the pre-Youtube age, would brick them rather than open them up. Or at least have to take them to a B&D shop.

Handy that mine is brushless then, eh?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Have you ever owned battery powered tools? The batteries might last a few years...or not, but they're not forever.

When we lived in CA, you could "trade in" any gasoline mower + (IIRC) $200 and get a brand new electric push mower.
They ran that deal a couple of times per year...and never had a problem selling out...then, you'd see the "BNIB Electric Mower" pop up on Craigslist in a week.

I have tons of Ryobi stuff, even a chainsaw and don't have a problem. The newer batteries are way better than the old nicad ones were. I still have a 12v nicad drill which I have not used in at least 5 years and just went to check and it is in fact dead but it's at least 20 years old. Just threw the battery on the charger for 5 minutes and it has charge again. Though I imagine it's probably not going to last as long as the newer batteries. The key with any battery is they need to be used (or at least topped up) and don't like to sit.

 

[ultimatebob]

I'd imagine that some contractors will just buy their gas powered tools out of state until the electric ones get cheaper. Some of those guys are working on pretty tight profit margins already.

 

[shortylickens]

That's not what it says, it says they have to have toys in a section that's not specifically labelled "boys" or "girls".

I didnt say that.
What I said was its not like they have a difficult time finding non-gender toys.
You dont need a specific section of the store for gender neutral toys because they are everywhere. It doesnt matter.

 

[nakedfrog]

I didnt say that.
What I said was its not like they have a difficult time finding non-gender toys.
You dont need a specific section of the store for gender neutral toys because they are everywhere. It doesnt matter.

I mean, I guess I don't know how else I'm supposed to construe the sentence: "I really dont know if forcing California stores to keep such toys in stock is demanding of a law. "
As anything other than "This law requires CA stores to stock gender-neutral toys" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[shortylickens]

It's indirect stimulus for the electric sellers

The populace not being handy contribute plenty to carbon penalty. Gas powered are a problem because they became bricks far too soon moreso than the emissions; the ethanol in fuel sure contributes to that. Carb gunking, water in the tank, rusting body. Mower might be only 3 years old and it's landing on the free or discount section of craigslist if the person actually is aware of that.

Electrics last longer but the brushes are the eventual sure failure point and in the pre-Youtube age, would brick them rather than open them up. Or at least have to take them to a B&D shop.

Electrics do not last longer. Even a pro grade battery only gets you like one hour of heavy work. If you are working all day long you will be constantly swapping out batteries.
How do you charge them thru the day?
With a fucking generator, that makes noise and burns gasoline.
Or with your trucks charger.
Same problem.

If you mean lifetime, tiny gasoline engines are repairable with small cheap parts and can run decades. Electric motors do not run for decades. They end up in landfills sooner. If a state like California goes thru them much faster theres gonna be a LOT more plastic and electronic waste out there.

 

[Red Squirrel]

The big thing is right to repair, they really need to force companies to make stuff repairable. Since yeah if you can't easily replace bad battery cells/packs this is an issue. Tesla is horrible for right to repair. They'll want to replace the entire battery pack because of a bad connector. This is the kind of shit Apple does.

Ideally they also need to standardize the battery pack modules. Make it so the battery pack can slide out, then all the modules are bolt in with a big connecting backplane. They slide out and can then be serviced. As new battery tech improves you can even insert newer modules and repurpose the modules for other things. Make it so that electric ATVs etc use the same modules too. Maybe even UPSes and solar systems. Basically the modules would have all the circuitry to do the battery management, but as far as any end device is concerned it's just a battery that provides a set voltage, and can take in a set voltage to charge it.

The biggest issue is how companies want to make everything proprietary and patent everything. This slows down progress.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Electrics do not last longer. Even a pro grade battery only gets you like one hour of heavy work. If you are working all day long you will be constantly swapping out batteries.
How do you charge them thru the day?
With a fucking generator, that makes noise and burns gasoline.
Or with your trucks charger.
Same problem.

If you mean lifetime, tiny gasoline engines are repairable with small cheap parts and can run decades. Electric motors do not run for decades. They end up in landfills sooner. If a state like California goes thru them much faster theres gonna be a LOT more plastic and electronic waste out there.

Why would you use a generator? Solar is so cheap now it's a no brainer, easier, and quieter.



I need to completely redo that setup though, the wiring is a bit shoddy. It was originally for camping and using 12v stuff only. Going to make a bigger one with a 3000w inverter so I can run big corded tools too.


I built my whole deck with solar, except for mitre saw since I did not have a big enough inverter then. Now days my shed solar does have a 3000w inverter so I could have easily done the whole deck with just solar.

 

[Torn Mind]

Electrics do not last longer. Even a pro grade battery only gets you like one hour of heavy work. If you are working all day long you will be constantly swapping out batteries.
How do you charge them thru the day?
With a fucking generator, that makes noise and burns gasoline.
Or with your trucks charger.
Same problem.

If you mean lifetime, tiny gasoline engines are repairable with small cheap parts and can run decades. Electric motors do not run for decades. They end up in landfills sooner. If a state like California goes thru them much faster theres gonna be a LOT more plastic and electronic waste out there.

If it's pro grade stuff, then wouldn't the mowers be the ride-on or tractor types, which this news report is not clear whether those products are affected?

I was talking about the plug-in electric types with no battery. The Sun Joes do suck but Black and Decker makes better ones.

Battery or gas is heavy and not always suitable for smaller yards with hilly grades, like Piedmont Plateau houses and townhouses. Gas is also a theft risk. If I'm a residential homeowner with a smaller lot house(common in the cramped inner cities, like LA, San Fran, etc) I'd pick a plug-in electric, where the points of failure would be the switch and the brushes. Electric motor longevity can be affected by the gauge of the wire used, which should be 14 or above these days, as the little 6amp motor by Black and Decker has gone the way of the dodo. All the electric I see now on Home Depot are thirsty 12amp+ machines, even the crappy Sun Joes.

If the yard is larger, mostly flat and has not mini ruts all over, then the need for gas's power becomes evident. If the yard is big with hills, then self-propel becomes necessary.

The newer designs of gas mowers is very bad in terms of stopping carb failure as the fuel is normally flooding up the carb and a shut-off valve isn't always present. The holes in the carbs are very small due to emissions regulations. I've picked up numerous free gas mowers on craigslist because people just don't know how to deal with carb failure due to bad gas. The country waste transfer station, which I go to throw away oil, often have people putting mowers in good cosmetic condition into the area for "recycling".

A lot of residential people buy gas but are either overbuying their house lot and/or not aware of the things to keep the carb from gunking itself. The gas has to be either treated with Stabil or burned completely out during the mowing session.

 

[herm0016]

Just push mowers or do tractors count?

it looks like this will cover everything with a small gas engine. the rules are still being written, but early assessments from carb are targeting everything below a certain horsepower. its not clear, at least in my research where they will find the cut off or exemptions. its is pretty clear you will not be able to buy a generator in a state that likes to cut the power off when it is windy out. so we will so how that goes. additionally snow blowers, pressure washers rototillers, etc. will all have to be electric.

fyi, you can only get about 2 hp out of a standard outlet. and battery powered stuff is normally well under that. my gas pressure washer is 6. my lawnmower is about 25, my utility tractor is 47. my blower/weedwacker/pole saw etc. are around 1.5.

an 8 ah 60 volt battery has about 500 watt hours, so 1.5 hp for about 30 min. or .75 hp for an hour. it looks like ego has a 28 ah battery backpack that costs 1200 bucks. yikes. or a 10 ah battery that costs around 500. echo has a 2.5 or 5 ah battery.

there are a couple electric zero turns and such, and feedback i have seen on them has been positive as long as the cutting conditions are good, pretty poor feedback when they are used on pasture grasses, or really anything that is not a well kept lawn.

electric chainsaws only go up to about a 16 in bar or so also. maybe an exemption for the larger saws?

we will see if it affects things like brush mowers, larger commercial mowers and whatnot. gas only regs or diesel too? you can buy pretty good small diesels from china now.

 

[herm0016]

Why would you use a generator? Solar is so cheap now it's a no brainer, easier, and quieter.

I need to completely redo that setup though, the wiring is a bit shoddy. It was originally for camping and using 12v stuff only. Going to make a bigger one with a 3000w inverter so I can run big corded tools too.

I built my whole deck with solar, except for mitre saw since I did not have a big enough inverter then. Now days my shed solar does have a 3000w inverter so I could have easily done the whole deck with just solar.

with one person, and not even for the largest tool. it would take a huge battery and solar system to support a framing crew, or similar.

 

[shortylickens]

Sorry I was thinking of professionals. Crews with dozens of men, dozens of tools and they'd probably need a hundred batteries, or some sort of effective charging system. But if they are using the bare minimum of batteries they'd be charging and draining them multiple times per day. Which wears them out faster. Which means they end up in the landfill faster.
For professionals gasoline is just so much easier. And either California will exempt them, which defeats the purpose of the new law, or they will get screwed over or just buy gasoline tools out of state, which again defeats the purpose of the law.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I guess that if gas leaf blowers are made illegal I won't get to enjoy them waking up the neighborhood every morning at 6 or 7 when yard crews start. What a shame.

Fuck those fucking fuckers with a fucking rusty fucked fuckerstick!

We eliminated our grass. Never been happier.

That does simplify things a bit, gas or ass. Unless you substituted bass, or mass, but you'd probably just get sass.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Sorry I was thinking of professionals. Crews with dozens of men, dozens of tools and they'd probably need a hundred batteries, or some sort of effective charging system. But if they are using the bare minimum of batteries they'd be charging and draining them multiple times per day. Which wears them out faster. Which means they end up in the landfill faster.
For professionals gasoline is just so much easier. And either California will exempt them, which defeats the purpose of the new law, or they will get screwed over or just buy gasoline tools out of state, which again defeats the purpose of the law.

Same idea but you just scale it up. More batteries and more solar. Of course with a big inverter you can still use corded tools.

People are just stuck in the old ways and forget that there is better ways to get things done now days.

 

[lxskllr]

You can't do professional treework with electric. Some of the smaller saws can be replaced with electric, especially in an arborist context, but logging's completely out.

 

[highland145]

Every Saturday morning, I'm out there, burning some pissant raptor's claw, irritating the holy shit out of my neighbors. Mower, weed eater, edger, hedge trimmer. Loud, obnoxious, smelly and effing happy...why? Cause my neighbors don't contribute shit. Nothing. They get purged and chemicalized. Da heck? Could they, at least, get repurposed? Not soylent repurposed. But no....a lifetime of consuming with ZERO fertilization value.

Thought my Bro was off, more so than normal, when he expressed his burial plans. In S.C. you can create your own cemetery...Anyway, he has some acerage..dig a hole, wrap him up and toss him in. Makes sense.

 

[snoopy7548]

I wanna be cremated if/when I die.

 

[highland145]

I wanna be cremated if/when I die.

Yeah and tossed around Lowes/Home Depot since that's where my $ has gone.


Maybe your Mom's car since I made $$ there.

 

[shortylickens]

Same idea but you just scale it up. More batteries and more solar. Of course with a big inverter you can still use corded tools.

People are just stuck in the old ways and forget that there is better ways to get things done now days.

Professionals really cant use cords most of the time.

And right now solar does NOT provide enough electricity. Even if you could get a whole bunch of extension cords, you would need a magnificent solar array to power a dozen heavy duty lawn tools. And you cannot put that much solar surface on a truck.

I dont doubt people are stuck in the old ways but thats not the issue here. The issue here is right now at this exact moment in time, there is no better solution. There SHOULD be, cuz its freakin 2021, but there isnt, not for professionals who need a lot of power for all day work.

Theres a few companies who make high end riders too, but they arent enough for an all day job.

https://www.amazon.com/Ryobi-Battery-Electric-Engine-RY48110/dp/B07BPM7T8R

But god help me if I ever stop being cheap and buy that garden shed........

 

[HomerJS]

California's stricter emissions standards have saved the countries standards from going backwards.

 

[shortylickens]

California's stricter emissions standards have saved the countries standards from going backwards.

Thats fine and I respect it.
California almost never seems to consider the consequences of their major changes. A lot of their legislation feels more like feel-good laws than actual progress.
or IF they do consider the consequences, they never tell general public what to about the new laws. People need solutions. I am of the opinion most state governments are lousy at recommending solutions to their residents.
The worst was Michigan and the shit water. They tried importing bottled water but they really didnt give anyone effective solutions for dealing with bad tap water, as a way of life. As an example, heavy duty boiling and filtering for the whole household. Or strategies for getting by with less water.

 

[Torn Mind]

it looks like this will cover everything with a small gas engine. the rules are still being written, but early assessments from carb are targeting everything below a certain horsepower. its not clear, at least in my research where they will find the cut off or exemptions. its is pretty clear you will not be able to buy a generator in a state that likes to cut the power off when it is windy out. so we will so how that goes. additionally snow blowers, pressure washers rototillers, etc. will all have to be electric.

fyi, you can only get about 2 hp out of a standard outlet. and battery powered stuff is normally well under that. my gas pressure washer is 6. my lawnmower is about 25, my utility tractor is 47. my blower/weedwacker/pole saw etc. are around 1.5.

an 8 ah 60 volt battery has about 500 watt hours, so 1.5 hp for about 30 min. or .75 hp for an hour. it looks like ego has a 28 ah battery backpack that costs 1200 bucks. yikes. or a 10 ah battery that costs around 500. echo has a 2.5 or 5 ah battery.

there are a couple electric zero turns and such, and feedback i have seen on them has been positive as long as the cutting conditions are good, pretty poor feedback when they are used on pasture grasses, or really anything that is not a well kept lawn.

electric chainsaws only go up to about a 16 in bar or so also. maybe an exemption for the larger saws?

we will see if it affects things like brush mowers, larger commercial mowers and whatnot. gas only regs or diesel too? you can buy pretty good small diesels from china now.

Bill Text - AB-1346 Air pollution: small off-road engines.

The words cost effective and technologically feasible seems to be the key legal conditions. So, I can definitely see the stores in places like San Fran, LA, etc eliminate the gas mower rather quickly. But in more sparsely populated areas with big lots of land, equipment will be still allowed so farmers, etc can do work and make their money tax to get taxed.

Would be interesting how the used market and "refurb shops" fare in such an environment, along with a surge in willingness to DIY, hunt on craigslist, etc.

The places where it's desert, the need for mowers don't exist unless there's irrigation 'scaping going.

 

[herm0016]

Thats fine and I respect it.
California almost never seems to consider the consequences of their major changes. A lot of their legislation feels more like feel-good laws than actual progress.
or IF they do consider the consequences, they never tell general public what to about the new laws. People need solutions. I am of the opinion most state governments are lousy at recommending solutions to their residents.
The worst was Michigan and the shit water. They tried importing bottled water but they really didnt give anyone effective solutions for dealing with bad tap water, as a way of life. As an example, heavy duty boiling and filtering for the whole household. Or strategies for getting by with less water.

that is not at all what happened in my fathers home town of flint.

some one on the city council hired their cousin to run the water plant and they had no idea what they were doing. and they totally f'ed it. is the real story. flint has been struggling with water issues for many decades due to some old infrastructure issues, and corruption.