Cables - Anyone Roll Their Own?

[whovous]

OK, I will start by confessing to being more than a bit obsessive about this. I am currently working on my sixth build, and am really trying to get this one right.

Components include:

Thermaltake Tsunami Dream case
OCZ Modstream PSU
DFI NF4 Ultra D mobo
AMD Opteron 165 (dual core)
Zalman 9500 CPU cooler
Zalman VF700-CU VGA heatsink
6800GS video card
Thermaltake Hardcano (my third attempt so far at a fan controller for a screwless case)
Geil One RAM (2 x 512)
Maxtor 250G SATA HD
Liteon CDRW and Samsung DVD-RW

I have managed stable OCs of as much as 50%, but temps and noise were more than I want to live with on a daily basis. Still, I want the interior of my case to be as clean as possible, both for airflow and for that big blacklit window on the side.

This is my second modular PSU, following an Ultra in a rig I built for a stepson. I like the idea of modular a lot, in spite of the theoretical performance limitations. Too many non-modular PSUs just have an ugly mess of unsleeved wires to dispose of. Even sleeved PSUs (tried that too) don't do that good of a job from what I've seen.

My problem with modular cables is that they are too thick and too long. The back of my PSU is about 6 inches from the back of my optical drives. The shortest molex to molex power cable is about 20 inches long. That leaves a lot of very thick and very wasted wire, and I have not had much luck finding a useful home for it. With the exception of the PCI-E cable, every one is longer than it needs to be in my rig. And when I finally get my 6800GS back to the slot it belongs in (long story) that one will be too long, too.

Since the Modstream has molex connectors on one end of almost every cable, and on both ends of several, it seems to me that by making my own cables I could solve some of these problems.

I have a lot of questions, and am not sure they will be in any particular order:

1. Is there a place that sells all the different connectors? I do not have the guts to try the 24 pin connector (and it is not modular on the Modstream anyway), but I do not think I can hurt much by attempting the others, so long as I connect the wires in the right order. Can I buy individual examples of any or all of the following connectors: PCI-E, SATA, mini-Molex (aka floppy power connector)? What about the 4-pin mobo power connector (though I am not sure as I write this if it is modular on the Modstream or in the same wire bundle with the 24 pin)?

2. How about a good wire source? Is 20gauge OK for these very short runs, or should I go with 18G? I am thinking high purity copper with highly flexible (teflon?) sleeving, or something of that sort. Is there a good computer supplier, or should I look to a hi-fi source like The Parts Connection?

3. More generally, is there a one-step shopping source for a project like this? The machine is up and running now, so I do not have to be in a hurry, and am willing to use multiple sources if necessary.

4. What is the best sleeving type, for flexibility, durability, and ease of use?

5. I've seen many tutorials on removing and replacing molex connectors. Is there something similar for PCI-E, SATA, or mini-molex connectors? URLs, please.

6. Has anyone else made their own Molex terminated power cables from scratch? Just how do you deal with putting a single Molex on the PSU end and two or more on the receiving end? Daisy chain? Or a Y split earlier on?

7. Is the following understanding of how Molexes work correct? The two outer holes are for 12V (one power and one ground) and the two inner holes are for 5V. Right?

8. If #7 is correct, can I do the following to make my connections neater and simpler? I'd like to create some 12V only connectors and some 5V only connectors. That way, I'd only have to run two wires to each molex rather than four. I realize that makes these cables largely non-transferable to other applications, but I am concerned about getting this box right, not the next one. I could use one modular power source to run some very short wires to the pair of 12V inputs on my optical drives. On another power source, I'd run only the inner wires to the 5V inputs on my floppy and on my DFI mobo (though I still do not understand why DFI considers that separate 5V input so important). Am I correctly understanding how this works?

I'd really appreciate it we could get a discussion going on this. I've seen talk about sleeving and replacing molexes, and this just seems to be the next logical step to me. It has probably been discussed somewhere, but I have yet to see it.

Please advise and instruct me.

Thanks,
Phil

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Okay. For parts, I go to Performance PCs. They have all the connectors as well as tools, for pretty good prices. As far as wire for the project, you could always do what I did, and ask around in the FS/T forums for dead PSUs. They are very good source for extra wire, as well as extra molex connectors that can be modded for specific lengths.

I haven't created my own pinouts for power connectors, but I have modded nearly all of the power cables on both Seasonics in my machine. For example, the 8-pin aux power connector is modified to power 3 fans, or 2 cold cathode lights, depending on what cable I want to use. Molex conectors are color coded for their power: yellow = +12V, red = +5V, black = ground / common. If you look at the 24-pin power connector for the motherboard, it's the same way. You can go off of the wire diagram in a PSU to see other colors and what voltages they are. That said, you can modify the extra 4-pin and 6-pin connectors coming from the PSU to power other +12V devices, such as fans, fan controllers, etc.

Also, use extensions when modding power cables. I made the mistake of modding the original wires, and then had to sell the PSU later, and it was only useful to someone as a secondary PSU as I had cut a lot of cables. Using extensions allows you to mod the cables, but not harm the original wiring, so you still have the original PSU intact.

Hope all of this helps.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

As an alternative, look at the sleeving Jab-Tech.com has on offer.

Cheap sleeving kits that I've used in the past are sub-par. The heatshrink provided is not
very good and the monofilament expandable sleeving will melt easily. Buy decent goods

Consider buying a cheap heatgun from Harbor Freight it's << $20. Work great on the heatshrink.

Buy small dia.heatshink to cover any splices you may have to make in the wiring.

Search this forum in the archived messages for sleeving in Title or Summary.
Much good info will be found there.


...Galvanized

 

[whovous]

Performance PCs looks like a good source, thanks, Chocobo.

I do not want to mod the original wires, as they are heavily wrapped and braided. I want to ditch em and start from scratch with new wires cut to the precise lengths I want for each point on my system.

Yankee, Sleeving alone is not going to help me. Hope I made that clear. The OCZ cables are fully and quite beautifully sleeved. The problem is that they are too long and too thick.

I would like to avoid cheap sleeving when I get to sleeving the cables I make. Can you suggest a good sleeving brand?

Thanks for the replies. May I have some more, please?

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

How are your soldering skills? Solid silver solder (not that flux-core crap) and liquid flux makes all the difference when you are soldering. GY also did some soldering work using small copper tubing and other stuff.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Yes you made that clear OP. I will now go stand in the cornor

Genuine Molex pins and shells can be had at action-electronics.com. They also carry 3M brand
sleeving and shrink tubing but that can not be bought in small quantity. I bought enough
to do three rigs. Very good, top notch stuff but only comes in black.
Large pins are about $8 per 100. Think of that when they sell 5 for $1.

allelectronics.com carries very good shrink in several colors for cheap but no sleeving.

Jab-tech has a very nice ratchet crimper for Molex pins, costs < $20, very good kit.
It's made in Taiwan NOT China.

Both Jab-Tech and performance-pcs carry shells in different colors that glow in the dark or
they have shells that are lighted by small LEDs.

To make VG splices I cut .300" sections of 5/32" copper tubing, insert tinned 18AWG wires
with a touch of flux, crimp, solder, then apply heatshrink.
The small copper tubing is bought at ACE Hardware. It is gently cut with a sharp wire stripper.

Can I be of any futher assistance?


...Galvanized

 

[whovous]

Damn, Yankee, you come up with good information when put in a corner. Thanks!

But I am not sure I understand the point of the copper tubing. I was looking for flexibility, and that gives me rigidity instead. What applications make that an advantage?

My soldering skills are just OK. I do have some very fine German silver solder somewhere in my hi-fi goodies. If I am going to solder (and I am still real unclear why), I should probably get a good gun, too.

But all the Molex stuff I have seen uses crimp connectors over the ends of the wires, and those are then inserted into the connectors. What am I missing here? Wait a second, are you using tubing to protect splices? OK, I understand that, I guess, but if I am rolling my cables from scratch and not pillaging from other stuff, I am not sure I will need to do any splicing.

Also, have either of you replaced either PCI-E or SATA power connectors? I don't want to take one apart without knowing if I can put it back together again.

Phil

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

I'm all thumbs working with fine wiring and the copper tube soldered crimp connects make
for a VG joint where cabling has a stright run. It works fantastic for shortening server length
cables when working inside a mid-tower case. At this point in time, for me, modular is a high
resistance problem waiting to happen. I don't like modular. Extensions and addapters are to
be used only for fans and lighting in my world/case.

You can Google for 6" SATA cables or what ever length you need. I shop www.pchcables.com.
If you are sucessful at modding SATA cables, come back and tell us about it....Please.

I use a dual setting pencil iron, 20 & 40 watt. I just ordered a 60watt from www.bgmicro.com
today along with some other doo-dads.

No electrical connection is ever made up dry in my work practice. When forced to use crimp
connects in a salt air enviroment, the wires will be dipped in silcone, then inserted and crimped.
The above applies to cars & boats.

Given the above anal attitude.
Some will lightly tin the wire, crimp it in the Molex pin, then sweat the connection.
I crimp the connection with bare wire then apply the tinyest amount of ProGold. This product
is used on all connections in my last build, RAM and AGP included, before they are installed
in their slots.

For some interesting reading go to www.caig.com.

Think about this. When a problem gets posted, many rush to reccomend a reseating of all
cards, connections and RAM. Once done the problem is fixed as if by majic, when in reality
the conducting surfaces were just scuffed and contact re-established. With ProGold that will
be a thing of the past........Highly reccomended. I use it on AA bateries and life is noticably
extended.

You are going to need Molex pin removal tools, don't buy cheap tooling.
You are going to need a third hand. I hope you have a small bench vise of some type.

Bookmark this site as it may come in handy.....http://pinouts.ru/pin_index.shtml

Search the archived posts in this forum for sleeving in title or summary for further info.


...Galvanized

 

[whovous]

I know ProGold from my hi-fi fanaticism. There, we spend tons of dollars on simple wires. I am trying to decide if computer folk are smarter than hi-fi folk, or if they just haven't had the years of experience known to the audio world.

I will add ProGold to my buy list. I will also write more on this later when I have more time.

If I've not done so, I want to make clear that my plan/dream/hope regarding SATA extends only to power cables. I would not dream of trying to fab a SATA data cable. I bought some short SATA data cables back when I was first planning this rig.

I understand the arguments against modular PSUs. Nonetheless, I own one, largely for reasons of vanity. I am trying to make the best of that situation, and not to get talked into replacing yet another item in this new build. I am already on my third fan controller, to take the worst example.

I am going to use modular power cables, and I want to make them as short, simple, and as effective as possible. I do not mind using extensions for fans, since they do not require a perfect and clean signal, but will try to avoid them for the real components.

More later.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

You do realise that SATA data cables can be had with 90degree ends. This can make for a neater presentation.

Female 4 pin Molex shells can also be had in 90degree form. They come with the pins in place.
I've never used them, only seen'em at Jab-Tech.

EDIT: I find 18AWG works best for me when crimping on the large Molex pins. 20AWG seems
to take too much mush with my ratchet crimper.

For SATA power ends, addapters are sold that go from 4 pin Molex to SATA power. I cut off the Molex then
do the copper tube splice deal. This gives me a direct connect to the PSU. I can not remember
the pinout on this at the moment, I just followed the orientation of the addapter.
A case full of pass-throughs look bad to my eyes.

Some SATA HDs come with both a SATA power plug and 4 pin Molex, so either can be used, but not both.
The male Molex 4 pin is the stronger of the two. The SATA power male on the drive is unprotected,
it just kind of hangs out there ready to be broken off.

I am not an audiophile but have an extensive background in auto-electrics and realise
how weak 3.3 and 5V is when meeting Mr.Ohm. Ever drive an old 6V car on a rainy winter's night?
Kind of scary



...Galvanized

 

[Zepper]

I also recommend jab-tech for molex shells in different colors/UV etc. If plain white will do you, then G-Y's source is the place as they are the REAL McCoy, not chinese knockoffs. SVC has carried a kit to make any PSU modular.

Those IDC type drive connectors that GY mentioned are the bees' knees for hiding drive power wires. One cable for the 5" drive stack and one more for the HDs - bring each cable right down from the top or up from the bottom.

And SVC also has some connector shells and contacts. Both have sleeving kits.

The pinout on the drive molexes is: Yellow=12V, Red=5V, the black next to the red is the 12V ground and the other black is the 5V ground. Since grounds are all common these days, it doesn't matter as much as it used to. Look at the Zippy PSU manual for a model with all the connector types you have for pinouts of most types of connectors - available as .PDF files on the zippy site. I find it useful to have another (untampered with) PSU on hand to use as reference.

What GY does with the copper tubing is called a butt-splice. It is a bit more elegant than the typical crimp-on things you can buy at the hardware store.

And most drives use both 5 and 12V, the only ones that don't being floppy drives (in desktop PCs - laptops are another story). So each connector must have at least three wires - R, Y, Bk. I recommend 18ga. And teflon insulation is usally not all that flexible. Pre-tinned, stranded wire is worth the extra cost. Other types of peripherals and accys that hook to drive power connectors may just use one or the other voltage.

BGMicro.com has a good selection of wire in the various colors and sizes. IDK about the flexibility of it, but I'm sure it's good enough. Power wires are generally not critical - the quality of connections and crimps are important. Tin the ends very lightly before crimping into contacts as it will help limit corrosion. If you can solder the contacts as well as crimp then you are even better off. But be careful - getting solder into the working ends of the contacts can cause a lot of do-overs...

.bh.

 

[zagood]

hehe...you said butt-splice.

You guys have opened up a new world for me, never really thought about modding a PSU from this level. I've got a few spare 250-350w PSU's sitting around that I may just try some experiments on.

-z

 

[Zepper]

Well, that is what it's called - you're butting two pieces of wire together inside a piece of tubing.

.bh.

 

[whovous]

I hadn't really thought about 90 degree connectors, but like the idea, as it should make for a neater connection. I also like the idea of connectors that release when you push a little tab. Now to find one that does both. I'd hoped to spend some time searching this weekend, but my wife reminded me that we're married...

I will go with 18AWG, so at least one question is definitively answered. I've seem some audio wire that is spectacularly flexible in Teflon, but suspect I am gonna have to be careful on this score. If The Parts Connection still exists, it will be a great info source on that score.

GY, have you posted any photos of your copper tube splices in a computer? Everyone else seems to know exactly whereof you speak, while I remain confused but interested. I'd especially like to see what you've done on the SATA power front, if possible. Then again, I should probably take another look at the HD. I suspect I chose the SATA power connector out of excitement over finally owning a SATA drive. Now that it has unpluggeed itself enough times, the excitement has worn off somewhat.

I am thinking as I write (always dangerous) and it occurs to me that what I really want to do as much as possible is to avoid splices in the first place. A molex on one end to plug into my OCZ Modstream, and a pair of molexes on the other end. That way, one very short cable can handle both of the optical drives, and another medium length cable can handle the two HDs. A third cable of similar length can have a pair of mini-molexes; one for the floppy and one for the 5V connection that DFI demands for the mobo that I still don't really understand. By using a molex for the SATA power, I get rid of one unusual power connector, too, and I like that idea.

That still leaves the PCI-E connector for the video card, but perhaps that is less important, as the current cable really isn't too long, just thicker than I'd like. It is probably not going to match my home rolled cables, but I suspect I can live with that.

Zepper, you raise some interesting questions. You suggest pre-tinned wires, but can I get them in any color and length that I want? If I cut them to fit, one end is always gonna need to be tinned anyway.

Also, you say most devices need both 12V and 5V. I confess that possibility had never crossed my mind and that I don't like it much, as it ruins what I thought was a moderately bright idea. Is there an easy way to check? Damn, I just picked up my new DVD-RW, and it quite clearly says both 12V and 5V. My newer HDs are in the box, but a broken 60G WD drive says the same thing. OK, never mind the question. I still don't like the answer, but I don't seem to have a lot of choice in the matter.

I like the idea of finding a way to do a straight wire drop from the top of the box, rather than the sort of meandering runs the current too long, too thick, modular cables take.

OK, two questions, Zepper (and everyone) and I think the second one is important.

1. What is the pinout for mini-molexes? Can I get away with fewer than four wires there, since it is solely a 5V connection?

2. What is the best way to go from one molex on the PSU end to two molexes on the component end? Do I just put two sents of wires into each PSU end, and terminate em separately on the other end? Is there a better/easier way? I want this to be as clean and simple as possible. None of the elements here seem to cost enough for price to be an issue in this.

Thanks again, one and all.

 

[whovous]

Zagood, modding a modular power supply makes the job a lot easier, as you don't necessarily have to splice anything at all. PSUs and power wires are almost inevitably the ugliest part of a build.

 

[Zepper]

The pinout on the FD power connectors is the same as the big ones: red, bk, bk, yel, and the colors mean the same - I'd still use at least three wires: R, Y, Bk as some drives and accys that use the FD connector, like Zip drives, do use the 12V too - and you can use 20 or 22 ga wires on those.

I've not seen the IDC Molex connectors (rt. angle) with the easy-grip tabs on them. And FYI, there is a special IDC Molex for the last one on the end. Those have a closed side so the wires aren't exposed. On the intermediate ones, the wires pass straight thru like the flat HD cables. Once you look at the pix of the rt. angle connectors on jab-tech, you'll know why those are the way to go for your drive power. It's one run of 4 wires and the connectors would be spaced exactly where your drive layout needs, not some standardized distance apart. No extra wire at all! Just up to the top of the case from the psu and drop right down in line with your stack of power connectors.

The pre-tinned wire I'm talking about has each strand tinned for its full length at the factory - you'd probably have to get it from Digi-key, Mouser or maybe Jameco - not a common item and will cost you probably more than it's worth. But you will note that all of the original equpment output wires on most PSUs are of the pre-tinned variety. Makes it VERY easy to prep for adding contacts and prevents corrosion of the copper but it does make the wires stiffer and a bit larger in overall diameter.

.bh.

 

[whovous]

Well, now that I think about it, that big right angle should be a pretty good 'easy grip' tab.

I definitely need to look at these, as the idea of just four wires per sleeve is enormously appealing. I am guessing there are no Molex pins involved here, but once I look, I suppose I won't need to guess. [later - D'uh, these are all female connectors, aren't they?)

This gives me another idea/question: Can I drop a single wire for four items (2 optical and two HD)? That would reduce my wire mess even more, but is that too much daisy-chaining for a little 12V current to stand? I confess I do not understand electrical current all that well. Will it make a difference to the PSU if the drain from the four items comes from one tap rather than two?

I'll have to think more about pre-tinned wire, and just how obsessed I am with flexibility. If I am just dropping a single wire with precisely spaced connectors, flexibility should not be nearly as important as it is when playing with a rat's nest worth of wires.

These ideas are definitely beginning to fall in place. Thanks once again to one and all!

Phil

 

[Zepper]

Since all four devices are unlikely to be operating at once, then there should be no problem with 4 on one drop.

.bh.

 

[whovous]

Excellent! I do not use the opticals much at all, and one HD is mostly occupying space.

I looked at jab-tech again, and it appears the manufacturer of the 90 degree molexes is ConnectorZ. They also make kits to replace most of the PSU terminations, though they seem to contain 20, not 24, pin power connectors.

Another question: How easy is it to replace 3-pin fan connections? If I am gonna do this, I suppose I should try not to be any more halfway about it then necessary. All the easy connections should be the same color and maker. I'll decide on the hard ones later, I guess.

 

[Zepper]

3-pin connectors are easy. You might want to get one of those tools that look like a syringe to remove the female molex pins from the shells, but you are building those from scratch anyway, so you won't have to remove any. Unless you goof up...

I asked jab-tech about 20+4 EPS connector shells and haven't heard back. I guess I'll write again. They are usually very quick at turning around questions.

.bh.

 

[whovous]

Somebody, either ConnectorZ or Sunbeam, has a 20+4 replacement connector. I saw it either jab-tech or xoxide. I am not sure I have the cojones to try one, however. A mistake there could get ugly.

Jab-tech offers modded PSUs. I am considering asking them if they are interested in fabbing the cables I need. This case of mine can be really clean, given the right cabling.

 

[whovous]

Oh yeah, if I do the 3 pins, they won't be from scratch. I'll just be replacing the connectors on the case fans. I will have to cogitate on this one a bit more, however. I've got wires running back and forth from fan to mobo to molex to controller (not necessarily in that order!), and I am not entirely sure it makes sense for me to replace them. They are almost all invisible in any event.

For now I own two molex removers. One is a plastic thing that came in a bag of molexes I wound up not using (wrong sex, if memory serves) and one is a metal one I paid $6 or so for.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

TTT for -z


...Galvanized

 

[whovous]

Jab-tech did not respond to my email, so I just ordered what I hope is enough stuff to make my own. Some day I will stop taking this puppy apart...

 

[zagood]

Bump it yo!

Thanks Galvanized...

-z