CA People... Need Tips for fighting a Toll Ticket while Visiting Recently

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Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,537
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Just got back froma 2 week trip to Southern CA. Had a great time but when we returned, I had a ticket for failing to pay a toll???

I'm positive this is a mistake or a scam. The time of the ticket is 1.5 hrs after landing at SNA. We rented a car and drove to Temecula that day. The approximate time given is exactly where I remember stopping to pay a toll to a human operator.

WE PAID THE TOLL! I don't remember seeing any other tolls that day and how could a person just accidently not see one anyway. As stated previously, at this point, I think this is a scam or something...

It's "only" $57 but it's the principle of the thing. Isn't the burden of proof on the state to at least tell me the evidence against me? There was no photo provided, eyewitness account... nothing!!!

Any advice?
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Caveman said:
Just got back froma 2 week trip to Southern CA. Had a great time but when we returned, I had a ticket for failing to pay a toll???

I'm positive this is a mistake or a scam. The time of the ticket is 1.5 hrs after landing at SNA. We rented a car and drove to Temecula that day. The approximate time given is exactly where I remember stopping to pay a toll to a human operator.

WE PAID THE TOLL! I don't remember seeing any other tolls that day and how could a person just accidently not see one anyway. As stated previously, at this point, I think this is a scam or something...

It's "only" $57 but it's the principle of the thing. Isn't the burden of proof on the state to at least tell me the evidence against me? There was no photo provided, eyewitness account... nothing!!!

Any advice?
Click to expand...

The burden is on you to prove that you do not owe the money.
 
C

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,537
34
91
I'm not sure where it happened because as far as I know it never did... The only toll I saw that day was on an a major road and I pulled over into the lane marked for cash and paid my cash ($2.00 IIIR). THere was a woman operator who made change for a $20 and sent me on my way. That was it... Nothing tricky, etc...

The Ticket says "Irvine Ranch N Lane 11" for the Location...

The rest of the trip that day was like any other day... Certainly, I'd see a toll booth and slow down...
 
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FoBoT

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
15
81
fobot.com
DCal430 said:
Can't they get an arrest warrent for something like this if it isn't paid, what about credit? Do unpaid tickets go on your credit report?
Click to expand...
they won't extradite you from another state for a poll ticket

BTW
i am kidding, i do not advocate being a scofflaw
 
JulesMaximus

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,562
969
126
Is this the rental car agency or the state of CA coming after you? I'd contact the rental car agency and then the state of CA and see where that gets you.

You do have to be careful though, there are some roads that are toll roads and they can be confusing. They say Fas Trak and you stay on the road but the signs say to pay toll exit even though you don't want to exit. If you stay on the road and don't exit to pay the toll (you get right back on) there are a million cameras that take your picture, a picture of your car, a picture of your license plate, a picture of you having sex in your hotel and then they mail the ticket to the registered owner of the vehicle.
 
C

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,537
34
91
JulesMaximus said:
Is this the rental car agency or the state of CA coming after you? I'd contact the rental car agency and then the state of CA and see where that gets you.

You do have to be careful though, there are some roads that are toll roads and they can be confusing. They say Fas Trak and you stay on the road but the signs say to pay toll exit even though you don't want to exit. If you stay on the road and don't exit to pay the toll (you get right back on) there are a million cameras that take your picture, a picture of your car, a picture of your license plate, a picture of you having sex in your hotel and then they mail the ticket to the registered owner of the vehicle.
Click to expand...

Remtal car agency notice for $18 processing fee came first, then the ticket the next day...

There were no pictures at all. This is what bothers me. It's like they are just randomly choosing someone they know has a rental car and sticking me with a ticket because they know it's hard to fight... Pretty good racket for raising revenue...
 
JulesMaximus

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,562
969
126
Caveman said:
Remtal car agency notice for $18 processing fee came first, then the ticket the next day...

There were no pictures at all. This is what bothers me. It's like they are just randomly choosing someone they know has a rental car and sticking me with a ticket because they know it's hard to fight... Pretty good racket for raising revenue...
Click to expand...

Pretty easy to figure out who was renting that car on that day actually. Maybe they made a mistake but I doubt it.

<--Used to work in the rental car business in Los Angeles.
 
JulesMaximus

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,562
969
126
Plus there are cameras identifying the driver so there is no doubt in my mind that you could request them. I'm surprised they didn't send them with your ticket. Maybe it is different with rented vehicles.
 
C

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,537
34
91
JulesMaximus said:
Pretty easy to figure out who was renting that car on that day actually. Maybe they made a mistake but I doubt it.

<--Used to work in the rental car business in Los Angeles.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I never even thought to check the license plate number since I didn;t write it down there's really no way to know if indeed that is where the mistake was made...

I think the state contacted the rental agency... Where I think there is something funny is with the toll system. Like I said, zero proof whatsoever of what I did wrong... Just that I "evaded"... I paid a $2.00 fee that day... I'd like to know where I evaded... There's just no way to magically evade a toll without knowing it. If there is, then the system stinks and it's crooked and designed to foool people... Meh...
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Caveman said:
Yeah, I never even thought to check the license plate number since I didn;t write it down there's really no way to know if indeed that is where the mistake was made...

I think the state contacted the rental agency... Where I think there is something funny is with the toll system. Like I said, zero proof whatsoever of what I did wrong... Just that I "evaded"... I paid a $2.00 fee that day... I'd like to know where I evaded... There's just no way to magically evade a toll without knowing it. If there is, then the system stinks and it's crooked and designed to foool people... Meh...
Click to expand...

Like I said they require no proof that you owe them money, you are the one who needs to prove that you don't owe them money. For fines and debts to the government that is how the law works.
 
C

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,537
34
91
JulesMaximus said:
Plus there are cameras identifying the driver so there is no doubt in my mind that you could request them. I'm surprised they didn't send them with your ticket. Maybe it is different with rented vehicles.
Click to expand...

About 6 years ago, we were in San Fran trying to cross the Golden Gate Bridge... There were no signs posted or the one that were were conflicting/confusing. There appeared to be no lanes for out of towners for cash, etc and the traffic was horrendous. I got stuck in an Expresspay line and couldn't move out... I thought there would be some way to tell a human operator what happened and pay the toll right there... I tried really, but there was just no provision for this. A few weeks later we get the ticket in the mail. I was really irritated but they took a picture and I remembered the situation so I grit my teeth and paid the fine.

The situation in Orange County is totally different. We were hypersensitive to all tolls on this recent trip because of what happened in San Fran... WE PAID THE ONLY TOLL WE HAD IN THE TIMEFRAME THEY SAID WE VIOLATED... Then, they can't even provide a picture... Can this be legal?
 
C

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,537
34
91
DCal430 said:
Like I said they require no proof that you owe them money, you are the one who needs to prove that you don't owe them money. For fines and debts to the government that is how the law works.
Click to expand...

Hence the open door for complete scamming... Lots of extra revenue to be made there...
 
D

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
caveman said:
about 6 years ago, we were in san fran trying to cross the golden gate bridge... There were no signs posted or the one that were were conflicting/confusing. There appeared to be no lanes for out of towners for cash, etc and the traffic was horrendous. I got stuck in an expresspay line and couldn't move out... I thought there would be some way to tell a human operator what happened and pay the toll right there... I tried really, but there was just no provision for this. A few weeks later we get the ticket in the mail. I was really irritated but they took a picture and i remembered the situation so i grit my teeth and paid the fine.

The situation in orange county is totally different. We were hypersensitive to all tolls on this recent trip because of what happened in san fran... We paid the only toll we had in the timeframe they said we violated... Then, they can't even provide a picture... Can this be legal?
Click to expand...

yes it is. The law says it is your burden to prove that you paid the toll.
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Caveman said:
Hence the open door for complete scamming... Lots of extra revenue to be made there...
Click to expand...

Yep I have a coworker who was fined hundreds of dollars for filing her taxes late, not paying late but for filing a few days late. She was owed a refund too and lost it because of this. The thing is she didn't file late. The state told her they do not need to prove she filed late. She needs to prove she filed on time. Really went from getting a refund to owing money because of this. California is stupid some times.
 
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JulesMaximus

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,562
969
126
Caveman said:
Hence the open door for complete scamming... Lots of extra revenue to be made there...
Click to expand...

I doubt that's the case. I've driven the toll roads many many times and the one time I blew through in the Fas Trak lanes I got a ticket mailed to me within days with pics of my car, pics of me behind the wheel, all time and date stamped.

To drive in the Fas Trak lanes you pay a monthly fee and the state gives you a transponder you mount on your windshield. You can drive in the Fas Trak lanes and avoid traffic. Some of these roads are like pay toll roads. You either have the Fas Trak or you pay the toll.

Maybe the rental agency fucked up in identifying you. Fleet vehicles are registered in groups so there might be groups of 30-40 of the same car with plate numbers that are only a few digits apart. At that point it comes down to some clerk at a rental car agency identifying which ticket belongs to which renter.

I'd start with the rental agency.
 
C

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,537
34
91
LTC8K6 said:
Ask for a receipt when you pay a toll with cash.
Click to expand...

Yeah, feel like a dork because I believe the toll agent offered me a receipt and I turned here down...

Makes me wonder if she presses the "no reciept/automatic ticket" button and gets a 10% kickback...

Will get receipt for the rest of my life...
 
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