ScoobMaster
Platinum Member
- Jan 17, 2001
- 2,528
- 10
- 81
*sigh*
look, let's try again - I think we can agree on this:
impoverished, low income = eligibale for ASSISTANCE in bettering themselves (NOT a "free ride")
middle/high income (AKA "RICH" to some) = not eliigible for assistance
This helps to "level the playing field" no??
O.K. then --- WHAT does RACE or ETHNICITY have to do with this????!!!!!!!
look, let's try again - I think we can agree on this:
impoverished, low income = eligibale for ASSISTANCE in bettering themselves (NOT a "free ride")
middle/high income (AKA "RICH" to some) = not eliigible for assistance
This helps to "level the playing field" no??
O.K. then --- WHAT does RACE or ETHNICITY have to do with this????!!!!!!!
ed21x
Diamond Member
- Oct 12, 2001
- 5,410
- 6
- 81
But you realize that stuff like affirmative action mainly benefits the minorities that live in rich areas, right? Most minorities that get into say the UC schools come from well-off families, thus getting the benefit from both worlds.
With you being asian, and me also, growing up in Westminster, you should know that it's not money that makes the difference... its difference in own personal values that makes the biggest difference in how well a person does. Being poor myself, it was my work ethics and my parents that pushed me hard to achieve. Money had NOTHING to do with it. Public education is FREE.
You can of course attempt to point at the fact that public education is unequal from place to place, but I personnaly came from the worst of the worst (by your definition) and I'm telling you the truth, it's not that different from that of the very best in suburbia.
<~ lived in Westminster for 6 years
<~ lived in Irvine for 8 years
Nitemare
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 35,466
- 3
- 76
How about years and years of under the table segregation? Blacks and latinos have been forced to live in low income areas because California gives them just enough money so they can't escape(Welfare, government housing, sh!tty school systems, and no good place to work). They get just enough to keep them quiet. They get just enough to have to be thought of and not seen. The Social welfare system is doing to minorities what the American government did to the Native Americans. It is entrapping minorities in a neverending life of poverty, crime and classification. Keeping "these" people down but out of site and out of mind might be ok to you, but not to me.
Being on the other side of the fence though it is easy to not see this....take a trip down to Watts sometime.
Why not instead of classifying these people you instead better the school system and build industry around them so they are not forced to work in retail or liquor stores?
Prop 54 makes great sense. That information is NOT needed for the government to make informed decisions. Simple as that.
I am gonna support it. I think universities will still try to discriminate by trying to figure out what the race is from the name, so I am naming my son Jamal Martinez 
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
CPA
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 30,322
- 4
- 0
Originally posted by: SuperTool
I am gonna support it. I think universities will still try to discriminate by trying to figure out what the race is from the name, so I am naming my son Jamal Martinez
You bring up an interesting point. My stepson has a hispanic surname, Hernandez, and if I lawfully adopt him it would become a European surname, Broskay. He could conceivably lose an advantage in some situations.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
Build industries around people based on color??!? How about building the cotton picking industry around blacks?
Sorry, man, but that was one exceptionally freakin stupid idea in a generally stupid post.
Race and Ethnicity have nothing to do with it. Bottom line. You can go on categorizing people and saying that <insert ethnicity/race here> live in poverty and need assistance, but to some degree, there are poor people of all skin colors. Using race as a factor in anything is simply promoting racial division. You don't teach diversity by force feeding it down the throats of others, and that's what AA and other racially motivated legislation does. I'm all for providing opportunities for people who need it, WITHOUT looking at the color of their skin.
I'm actually offended by some of these statements from those opposed to this proposition.
Let me tell you a little about myself:
I'm a (I think..heh) good looking white man. In my 30's, with 2 kids, a wife and a job. I grew up in a barrio area (Stanton, across the street from Crow Village for those of you that know the area). I went to schools that were 80% or higher hispanic. My blond hair stuck out like a sore thumb, and was the trigger for way too many fights as a kid and through high school.
I lived with my mom (single) and my brother who is 8 years younger than I am. So at the age of 8 I became a father-figure/babysitter. My childhood immediately went in the toilet. I had no money, my mom had no car, and drugs were pretty attractive once I hit 14...
I became addicted to crystal meth. Amazing how druggies can have no money, but manage to find the money to feed their addictions.
I somehow fed a $100 a week habit.
I rarely, if ever, went to school. I ran away from home frequently, and almost became some guy's bitch at one point. (I managed to get away before he could do anything.)
Something snapped in my head when I was 17. I had back surgery to correct a severe case of dorsal kyphosis (hunchback). When I came out of surgery I realized that my life was crap, that I was hurting my mom and brother, and I was going nowhere. I worked my a$$ off to try to earn my diploma before graduation (didn't make it...). At 18, with no diploma, I was in a bind. My mom was still on welfare supporting my brother which meant I had to either be in school fulltime or move out. Because I had hosed my education up pretty good, I didn't really have much choice. I left.
I moved into a friend's house with his parents. Got a job at Sav-On. Pulled my life out of the gutter.
Now I'm making decent money, have a family, and things are better. Not perfect (what is) but I can look back and feel good about my life overall.
I don't see how RACE can have anything to do with what I did. It took a lot of scrabbling and hard work to get where I am, and there's still hard work ahead of me. But ANYBODY can do it if they are willing to work for it. I'm nobody special. I'm just a guy that nearly destroyed myself but managed to realize it before it was too late.
Black, asian, hispanic, russian, middle eastern, whatever. Doesn't matter. ANYBODY can make it in life if they choose to. I've yet to work in an " all whitey" job. My current job (help desk) has a wide variety of races. We all work together and do our jobs. It just doesn't matter!!!
Everybody will run into racism sometimes. I ran into it when I lived in North Carolina. There was more racism towards whites (by both blacks AND whites, oddly enough) than there was towards blacks among the people I worked with and lived near. So I don't believe that is enough of a reason.
Like I said IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER when it comes to real life. Anybody who thinks it does perpetuates the problem.
Let me tell you a little about myself:
I'm a (I think..heh) good looking white man. In my 30's, with 2 kids, a wife and a job. I grew up in a barrio area (Stanton, across the street from Crow Village for those of you that know the area). I went to schools that were 80% or higher hispanic. My blond hair stuck out like a sore thumb, and was the trigger for way too many fights as a kid and through high school.
I lived with my mom (single) and my brother who is 8 years younger than I am. So at the age of 8 I became a father-figure/babysitter. My childhood immediately went in the toilet. I had no money, my mom had no car, and drugs were pretty attractive once I hit 14...
I became addicted to crystal meth. Amazing how druggies can have no money, but manage to find the money to feed their addictions.
I rarely, if ever, went to school. I ran away from home frequently, and almost became some guy's bitch at one point. (I managed to get away before he could do anything.)
Something snapped in my head when I was 17. I had back surgery to correct a severe case of dorsal kyphosis (hunchback). When I came out of surgery I realized that my life was crap, that I was hurting my mom and brother, and I was going nowhere. I worked my a$$ off to try to earn my diploma before graduation (didn't make it...). At 18, with no diploma, I was in a bind. My mom was still on welfare supporting my brother which meant I had to either be in school fulltime or move out. Because I had hosed my education up pretty good, I didn't really have much choice. I left.
I moved into a friend's house with his parents. Got a job at Sav-On. Pulled my life out of the gutter.
Now I'm making decent money, have a family, and things are better. Not perfect (what is) but I can look back and feel good about my life overall.
I don't see how RACE can have anything to do with what I did. It took a lot of scrabbling and hard work to get where I am, and there's still hard work ahead of me. But ANYBODY can do it if they are willing to work for it. I'm nobody special. I'm just a guy that nearly destroyed myself but managed to realize it before it was too late.
Black, asian, hispanic, russian, middle eastern, whatever. Doesn't matter. ANYBODY can make it in life if they choose to. I've yet to work in an " all whitey" job. My current job (help desk) has a wide variety of races. We all work together and do our jobs. It just doesn't matter!!!
Everybody will run into racism sometimes. I ran into it when I lived in North Carolina. There was more racism towards whites (by both blacks AND whites, oddly enough) than there was towards blacks among the people I worked with and lived near. So I don't believe that is enough of a reason.
Like I said IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER when it comes to real life. Anybody who thinks it does perpetuates the problem.
Good post, durocshark.
Dezign, how is something an "unfair advantage"? My parents worked their asses off for forty years to help provide for my sister and my education. Should they be penalized because they made the sacrifices to be successful?
Dezign, how is something an "unfair advantage"? My parents worked their asses off for forty years to help provide for my sister and my education. Should they be penalized because they made the sacrifices to be successful?
Originally posted by: DurocShark
I'm actually offended by some of these statements from those opposed to this proposition.
Let me tell you a little about myself:
I'm a (I think..heh) good looking white man. In my 30's, with 2 kids, a wife and a job. I grew up in a barrio area (Stanton, across the street from Crow Village for those of you that know the area). I went to schools that were 80% or higher hispanic. My blond hair stuck out like a sore thumb, and was the trigger for way too many fights as a kid and through high school.
I lived with my mom (single) and my brother who is 8 years younger than I am. So at the age of 8 I became a father-figure/babysitter. My childhood immediately went in the toilet. I had no money, my mom had no car, and drugs were pretty attractive once I hit 14...
I became addicted to crystal meth. Amazing how druggies can have no money, but manage to find the money to feed their addictions.I somehow fed a $100 a week habit.
I rarely, if ever, went to school. I ran away from home frequently, and almost became some guy's bitch at one point. (I managed to get away before he could do anything.)
Something snapped in my head when I was 17. I had back surgery to correct a severe case of dorsal kyphosis (hunchback). When I came out of surgery I realized that my life was crap, that I was hurting my mom and brother, and I was going nowhere. I worked my a$$ off to try to earn my diploma before graduation (didn't make it...). At 18, with no diploma, I was in a bind. My mom was still on welfare supporting my brother which meant I had to either be in school fulltime or move out. Because I had hosed my education up pretty good, I didn't really have much choice. I left.
I moved into a friend's house with his parents. Got a job at Sav-On. Pulled my life out of the gutter.
Now I'm making decent money, have a family, and things are better. Not perfect (what is) but I can look back and feel good about my life overall.
I don't see how RACE can have anything to do with what I did. It took a lot of scrabbling and hard work to get where I am, and there's still hard work ahead of me. But ANYBODY can do it if they are willing to work for it. I'm nobody special. I'm just a guy that nearly destroyed myself but managed to realize it before it was too late.
Black, asian, hispanic, russian, middle eastern, whatever. Doesn't matter. ANYBODY can make it in life if they choose to. I've yet to work in an " all whitey" job. My current job (help desk) has a wide variety of races. We all work together and do our jobs. It just doesn't matter!!!
Everybody will run into racism sometimes. I ran into it when I lived in North Carolina. There was more racism towards whites (by both blacks AND whites, oddly enough) than there was towards blacks among the people I worked with and lived near. So I don't believe that is enough of a reason.
Like I said IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER when it comes to real life. Anybody who thinks it does perpetuates the problem.
If only people like you were the majority. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.
And my parents worked their asses off for 40+ years to provide for their family of four... my dad came to this country with NOTHING.
But let's not get personal.
All of you are entitled to your own opinions... my views can pretty much be summed up by the info in my first post.
In a perfect world, this proposition would be great.
As we all know, the world just ain't a perfect place.
Do you support Proposition 54?
Total Votes: 26
Yes, I am going to vote in support of it. 6 (votes) 23.08 (%)
Yes, but I'm not going to vote. 5 (votes) 19.23 (%)
No, I am going to vote against it. 10 (votes) 38.46 (%)
No, but I'm not going to vote. 5 (votes) 19.23 (%)
Off to pick up my 2-year-old to babysit her...
Nitemare
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 35,466
- 3
- 76
Thank you for contributing your useful suggestions...
Like always your posts are brilliant and insiteful. We are not worthy
In other words, what's your suggestion? I'm simply stating that they made their own problem and giving them a way out of it. Something that will make these people or give them the opportunity to contribute to society.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,265
- 126
Note the exemptions. Law enforcement descriptions. So, they can maintain information on ethnicity/race? Seems so.
Also, VERY SIGNIFICANT- "actions to maintain federal funding". This would create an enormous loophole. Anything that gets ANY federal monies (and that would be one dollar by the wording I see) would be exempted. That is the way out for many concerns.
Now I have a problem with the swimming analogy-
Who do you tell they have to lose? The boy without the swimming lessons, or the one who took advantage of what was availible? Wealth provided the opportunity, but the rich kid had to work to get good. If the parents could buy ability, then you have an argument. They cannot. Is it fair? No. So, we take the poor kid and spot him 10 feet? Where is that "fair" for the other kid? Anyway, did either kid get to pick his parents? Why should either be punished for it.
The whole problem is constructed on the fallacy of fairness. Here is fair. We all are born, and we all die. Now that's fair.
I think Nitemare has a point. Rather than worrying about data collecting, go into the areas where WE KNOW there are problems and address them. Why are there crack dealers on the street? Because someone would accuse the "system" of disproportionately arresting minorities? Yes, there is a lot of pressure. Look at the blacks arrested! Who cares what color they are? Selling crack is a crime. If the majority of dealers in an area are black, we should let them be? No, arrest every one of them. Get people into schools. Kids dont show up for school? Have the PARENTS do community service. Teachers get the blame for a lot of this. Would you want to work in Watts, or even where I grew up in Philly? No. It is the responsibility of the parents to see to this, and the responsibility of the community to support them, perhaps coerce them if needed. Until selling drugs to 11 year old hookers becomes unacceptable to people living in a neighborhood, then all of this "classification" is moot.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 9K
-
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 7K
-
Facebook
Twitter