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BW: Star Wars Faces a Budget Hit

Trianon

Golden Member
At least one money drain is getting plugged...

Quote from BusinessWeek

The Pentagon has eight missiles on the ground in Alaska and California, poised to shoot down any makeshift ballistic missile that comes our way. Trouble is, sometimes the interceptors stay on terra firma when they're launched. That's what happened in December in the latest Star Wars test, which came two years after a different snafu. A computer glitch was to blame in December, the Missile Defense Agency (MDA) says.
Such woes could be part of the reason missile defense is heading toward a 10% cut in its 2006 budget, to $8.8 billion. MDA spokesman Rick Lehner, contacted before an embargo on the budget was broken, wouldn't comment on the projected spending. But outsiders have no such qualms. "It's a very complex program with a lot of technical issues," notes Steven Kosiak, a defense-budget analyst with the Center for Strategic & Budgetary Assessment, a Washington think tank. "It's hard to spend all that money efficiently."

ALTERED PRIORITIES. However, there's probably more than missile mishaps behind the dollar drop for Star Wars. The war on terror and Iraq may have taken their toll on missile defense and changed the way Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld assesses potential threats. He went into office worried about space issues, the ballistic-missile threat, and transforming the military.

Then came September 11, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

"The Rumsfeld vision of future warfare has had a severe collision with reality," says Loren Thompson, chief operating officer of the Lexington Institute, a conservative think tank in Arlington, Va. The problems facing missile defense, he says, are "the relatively weak case for the overall mission and the need to spend money in other ways."

Consider as well the difference between the 2000 election and last year's. Five years ago, missile defense was one of Bush's key issues, a surefire way to galvanize his conservative base. "America must build effective missile defenses based on the best available options at the earliest possible date," he declared during his first run for the White House.

"NO DEMONSTRATED CAPABILITY." Since then, despite the roughly $10 billion a year that has poured into the program, Rumsfeld has conceded the system doesn't have to be 100% effective. It just has to work well enough to change the calculation of an enemy thinking about lofting a missile at Los Angeles or New York. Problem is, it doesn't even seem capable of doing that, as the December test showed.

After more than 20 years of effort, major parts of the system are nowhere near ready for prime time, notes Philip Coyle, a top Pentagon weapons tester in the Clinton Administration. Neither the sophisticated X-band radar nor the Space-Based Infra-red System-High (SBIRS-High), both of which are critical to detecting and tracking incoming missiles, is close to operational. SBIRS-High is running into such difficulties that Lockheed Martin (LMT ) has agreed to defer a $10 million award -- its total profit on the project for 2004-2005. After a major restructuring in 2002, the cost of this one part of Star Wars was pegged at $4.4 billion -- and since then has swelled to $5.6 billion.

What's more, every time there is an attempt to intercept a missile, the target carries a beacon to tell the interceptor where it is -- a service an enemy isn't likely to offer. The bottom line: The system "has no demonstrated capability to defend against a realistic attack under realistic conditions," Coyle says.

NEW THREAT. And as the American program struggles, other countries are making headway in pursuing new technologies. Scott Ritter, the former arms inspector in Iraq who correctly concluded Baghdad had no weapons of mass destruction, now says Russia has tested an SS-27 Topol-M mobile ballistic missile that would render the current Star Wars scheme useless. It is too fast to hit right after takeoff unless the interceptor is lucky enough to be really close to the launch pad.

Also, the SS-27 is hardened against lasers, so the airborne laser -- a program already way behind schedule -- wouldn't work. And because it's maneuverable and capable of releasing three warheads and four decoys, it would be much harder to defeat as it falls in the terminal stage of flight.

MDA spokesman Lehner says Ritter's objection misses the point of his agency's goal, which is to address "the more rudimentary missiles North Korea and Iran are developing." But what if Pyongyang or Tehran buys an SS-27? "I don't know about that," he told BusinessWeek Online.

No wonder Bush changed the subject in 2004. "The domestic politics of it are less than they were," says Michael O'Hanlon, a defense expert at the Brookings Institution. "We went through an election campaign in which we barely heard mention of it." Even a strong backer of missile defense such as Frank Gaffney Jr., president of the Center for Security Policy, isn't overwrought by the cuts. According to Thompson, they most affect the kinetic-energy interceptor, which is supposed to collide with an incoming warhead in the boost phase.

UNTOUCHABLE TARGETS. While Gaffney would like more money spent on missile defense, he says his "strong preference would be to take money out of the kinetic energy interceptor, rather than other areas." The Northrop Grumman (NOC )-Raytheon (RTN ) program is the most recent addition to the missile-defense arsenal, and as a result, the most vulnerable, Thompson says.

A leaked December budget memo says the program faces further cuts of $800 million a year from projected spending through fiscal 2011. That could be just the start if Washington gets serious about the budget deficit. Congress isn't going to slash outlays for military pay, housing, medical care, or retiree benefits. It can't scrimp on operations and maintenance with forces under fire.

Procurement is all that's left. And if lawmakers protect C-130J transports, F/A-22 fighters, and ships, Star Wars' $9 billion budget -- and its dubious performance -- make it an inviting target. The way it's looking now, the proposed cuts in Star Wars may well have a better chance of succeeding than the system's missiles.

link
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Russia would never sell Topol-M. It's a keystone to their national security.

except to China and Iran...

to think that if they had given Star Wars to full green light we'd be seeing a $560+ billion miltary annual budget which would be 193% of the military's budget before shrub took office.

that is $424b baseline + $100b iraq/afgh + $40b JSF/Star Wars each year for the next 10-20 years.

193%
 
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Russia would never sell Topol-M. It's a keystone to their national security.

except to China and Iran...

to think that if they had given Star Wars to full green light we'd be seeing a $560+ billion miltary annual budget which would be 193% of the military's budget before shrub took office.

that is $424b baseline + $100b iraq/afgh + $40b JSF/Star Wars each year for the next 10-20 years.

193%

Russia would never sell Topol-M to China, much less Iran. Nuclear weapons are the main deterrent against China taking Siberia from Russia.
 
i think it's a good concept, but flawed in execution. The best way to kill a missile is in the boost stage, not the warhead in the terminal stage. the problem is that you need to have interceptor missiles close to the enemy.

i think the program should go on, but change things. Why can't they launch something from a B-52 to intercept missiles?
 
Originally posted by: alent1234
i think it's a good concept, but flawed in execution. The best way to kill a missile is in the boost stage, not the warhead in the terminal stage. the problem is that you need to have interceptor missiles close to the enemy.

i think the program should go on, but change things. Why can't they launch something from a B-52 to intercept missiles?


the answer is in the article, the missles are to fast during take off and they don't know where they will be launched from since the units are mobile... Interceptor has to be in really close during launch to be effective
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Russia would never sell Topol-M. It's a keystone to their national security.

except to China and Iran...

to think that if they had given Star Wars to full green light we'd be seeing a $560+ billion miltary annual budget which would be 193% of the military's budget before shrub took office.

that is $424b baseline + $100b iraq/afgh + $40b JSF/Star Wars each year for the next 10-20 years.

193%

Russia would never sell Topol-M to China, much less Iran. Nuclear weapons are the main deterrent against China taking Siberia from Russia.

That and Russia still has a strong military.
 
Originally posted by: Trianon
At least one money drain is getting plugged...

Quote from BusinessWeek

....
NEW THREAT. And as the American program struggles, other countries are making headway in pursuing new technologies. Scott Ritter, the former arms inspector in Iraq who correctly concluded Baghdad had no weapons of mass destruction, now says Russia has tested an SS-27 Topol-M mobile ballistic missile that would render the current Star Wars scheme useless. It is too fast to hit right after takeoff unless the interceptor is lucky enough to be really close to the launch pad.

Also, the SS-27 is hardened against lasers, so the airborne laser -- a program already way behind schedule -- wouldn't work. And because it's maneuverable and capable of releasing three warheads and four decoys, it would be much harder to defeat as it falls in the terminal stage of flight.....

link

I bet good money that Russia didn't even ponder on making a missile systems like this until Bush started bragging that he'd develop an anti-missile system. Not only is our president starting the cold war all over again, but this time around we're the ones bluffing and with an iffy economy
 
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Russia would never sell Topol-M. It's a keystone to their national security.

except to China and Iran...
Very doubful on China and definately not for Iran. The Topol-M would give China the ability to hit targets in Russia with a nuke strike significantly more quickly than they can at the moment, making a potential first strike a more creditable threat. Selling to Iran would be entirely against Russia's interests. Given the state of diplomatic relations between Iran and Russia, (including conflicts over oil rights in the Caspian Sea) Iran could very well end up using the Topol-M in a strike agaisnt Moscow, or at least gain a major diplomatic edge from being able to threaten to strike Moscow. Given Iran definately lacks such a capability right now, selling them such a capability would be extremely foolish.
 
Originally posted by: tallest1
Not only is our president starting the cold war all over again, but this time around we're the ones bluffing and with an iffy economy
Why exactly is working to protect one's country from external harm (albeit in the form of a horrendously expensive and non-producing defence system) "starting the cold war all over again"? And against whom is the war?
 
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: tallest1
Not only is our president starting the cold war all over again, but this time around we're the ones bluffing and with an iffy economy
Why exactly is working to protect one's country from external harm (albeit in the form of a horrendously expensive and non-producing defence system) "starting the cold war all over again"? And against whom is the war?

Look up the...

3 letters: MAD - Mutually Assured Destruction.

and 6 word quote: "With us or against us"
 
Originally posted by: tallest1
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: tallest1
Not only is our president starting the cold war all over again, but this time around we're the ones bluffing and with an iffy economy
Why exactly is working to protect one's country from external harm (albeit in the form of a horrendously expensive and non-producing defence system) "starting the cold war all over again"? And against whom is the war?

Look up the...

3 letters: MAD - Mutually Assured Destruction.

and 6 word quote: "With us or against us"
Try these 9 letters: ATQIOGIAM.

Answer The Question Instead Of Going Into Avoidance Mode.
 
Come on, you can't seriously suggest that Russia will sell _any_ ICBM to anyone, let alone Topol-M. It's true that Topol-M negates the whole concept of our antimissile defence, and there is currently no defence against it. I can't believe anyone takes Bush seriously when he says that Star Wars is for defence against ICBMs from NK. Yeah, right.
 
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: tallest1
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: tallest1
Not only is our president starting the cold war all over again, but this time around we're the ones bluffing and with an iffy economy
Why exactly is working to protect one's country from external harm (albeit in the form of a horrendously expensive and non-producing defence system) "starting the cold war all over again"? And against whom is the war?

Look up the...

3 letters: MAD - Mutually Assured Destruction.

and 6 word quote: "With us or against us"
Try these 9 letters: ATQIOGIAM.

Answer The Question Instead Of Going Into Avoidance Mode.

That is the answer but fine I'll spell it out for you. "Horrendously expensive and non-producing defense systems" don't help us one bit. What has contributed to the relative peace we have today is mutually assured destruction. If one country were to shoot a nuke as us, we'd shoot one back at them and nobody would win. However, if you declare that you're getting back into nucular weaponry research, claim that we will be able to destroy any missle thrown at us, and encroach upon countries that certainly don't like our military presense, other countries WILL react. Russia didn't make that missle simply because they felt like it. Even current allies are feeling threatened and are dipping into military research again. We'd then have to make new weapons to counter their new weapons and bada-boom, new cold war.

And this war is against anyone. Bush's "with us or against us" call for arms ain't gonna strength any alliances. You already see how Bush responds to countries that even give a penny to terrorists. You know each of these countries undermining the 'war on terror' even a bit are potential enemies. Russia included. You must be delusional if you think we're doing this missle defense thing for kicks
 
NMD is merely a solution in service to a puffed up problem, a strange political version of munchausen by proxy. First, create a "problem" in the minds of the electorate, then make yourself look good solving it. Except it doesn't work, but throwing more money at it will obviously bear fruit at some time RSN... even if the damned liberals force us to cut back on it, it's obviously more important than those evil "social programs" or Amtrak or even the Hubble... Gotta keep our priorities straight, and providing an imaginary defense against an imaginary problem is right at the top of the list.
 
North Korea has now admitted to possessing nuclear weapons. Government officials there claimed that they are needed as defense from an increasingly hostile attitude from Washington.

link

And only a day later, news like this furthers my argument.
 
Originally posted by: tallest1
North Korea has now admitted to possessing nuclear weapons. Government officials there claimed that they are needed as defense from an increasingly hostile attitude from Washington.

link

And only a day later, news like this furthers my argument.
Uh, right. North Korea built up nuclear capability because the U.S. may attain invulnerability against ICBMs one day. While I'm no big fan of NMD, your logic is sorely lacking.
 
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