buying new card. can't decide

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Vipeax

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

And the 4870 is sometimes slower than the GTX260 192 sp version..

How is what you said conclusive?

Will you ever post something else than what the "-> Nvidia <- Focus Group" would say?
I have been watching these forums recently, because I decided to get my first ATi (4870 1GB) after a streak of 7800GT, 8800GTS 640MB, 8800GT, 9800GTX... and I haven't seen anything else in this section from you except for bashing ATi and only saying positive stuff about nVidia which you rarely support with a link or anything.

I don't think I will ever go back to nVidia, unles they just blast ATi away like the 8800GTS/8800GTX did on their release. Multiple graphic cards has been receiving more support for last 2 years which makes Intel chipsets the way to go.

About that reply of yours;

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3415&p=1
4870 1GB:
Age of Conan, Crysis, ET: Quake Wars, Race Driver GRID, Assasin's Creed
GTX260 216:
Oblivion, The Witcher

The 4870 1GB beats the GTX 280 in Assasin's Creed & Race Driver and that for more than
65% less in Euros, 250 euro vs 380 euro (I live in the Netherlands).

And you can avoid crappy nVidia chipsets if you want to get another card later on (which actually lets you use dual monitor with it), but I think nVidia has a driver update for that soon.

So you would try to stifle the information in my comment from the OP? Is this something you did not want him to know? If so, explain why??? Anybody could have posted what I did, and have in numerous threads comparing these cards, and they don't have to be in a focus group to say it. Correct?

Notice anything?

In the US, the cheapest 4870512 worth getting (lifetime warranty from Visiontek) is 254.99 after rebates.

The GTX260 192 from eVGA is 219.99 after rebates.

Cheapest 48701GB is 299.99 with no rebate available.

All according to Newegg. Bound to find different/better/worse deals around the web.

 

[Vipeax]

Maybe he wrote it a little stupid then, but the GTX280 costs about 400 after the rebate I guess? (damn cheap americans...) That is still $150 more than the 4870 after the rebate. So yes, if a card that sometimes gets beaten by a cheaper card that is only 62.5% of the price I would think twice.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Vipeax
Maybe he wrote it a little stupid then, but the GTX280 costs about 400 after the rebate I guess? (damn cheap americans...) That is still $150 more than the 4870 after the rebate. So yes, if a card that sometimes gets beaten by a cheaper card that is only 62.5% of the price I would think twice.

Yes, the GTX280 still holds the single GPU crown and they ask a premium for it. Which is exactly why I brought up the GTX260. Cheaper than 4870 and trades blows with it. Cooler. More memory. Draws less power. Quieter. What else do you want? The OP can do what he wishes. It's just best for ALL options to be presented for a decision. That is all.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I'd get a 1GB 4870 and be done. It will play everything really well at 1920x???? resolutions. It's also $150 cheaper before rebate on newegg right now.

I can't see paying more for a card that doesn't outperform the cheaper card across the board. Look at recent reviews for example, the gtx280 is sometimes slower than the 4870.

Noise is a non issue when you throttle the fan. Becides when you're gaming and the fan spins up you should have sound on so you can't even hear it, I can't hear mine. The heat is a non issue when you throttle the fan. Rivatuner works really well for this if you learn how to use it. Nvidia isn't the only option unless you need physix which personally I can't see being a reason to buy a card.

And the 4870 is sometimes slower than the GTX260 192 sp version..

How is what you said conclusive?

*yawn* it doesn't matter. It's PLAYABLE! which is what really matters. Cheaper + playable = WIN! The GTX280 is what was mentioned originally.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Vipeax
Maybe he wrote it a little stupid then, but the GTX280 costs about 400 after the rebate I guess? (damn cheap americans...) That is still $150 more than the 4870 after the rebate. So yes, if a card that sometimes gets beaten by a cheaper card that is only 62.5% of the price I would think twice.

Yes, the GTX280 still holds the single GPU crown and they ask a premium for it. Which is exactly why I brought up the GTX260. Cheaper than 4870 and trades blows with it. Cooler. More memory. Draws less power. Quieter. What else do you want? The OP can do what he wishes. It's just best for ALL options to be presented for a decision. That is all.

Cooler until you set the fan properly which is what I said. More memory? The 1GB 4870 is available now as an option. Less power? Who really has a PSU in a gaming system that can't handle the 4870? If you built your system, i'm sure your PSU is fine if you built the system as a higher end/gaming machine.

I'm just saying, the GTX280 is overrated at this point in time. It may "sometimes" be faster, but for an extra $100 I want "always faster". Plus the card is longer which presents another problem for some people trying to fit it in the case.

I really think it's wrong to have to always go to Nvidia as the only option. ATI has a good card now that offers a better value.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Vipeax
Maybe he wrote it a little stupid then, but the GTX280 costs about 400 after the rebate I guess? (damn cheap americans...) That is still $150 more than the 4870 after the rebate. So yes, if a card that sometimes gets beaten by a cheaper card that is only 62.5% of the price I would think twice.

Yes, the GTX280 still holds the single GPU crown and they ask a premium for it. Which is exactly why I brought up the GTX260. Cheaper than 4870 and trades blows with it. Cooler. More memory. Draws less power. Quieter. What else do you want? The OP can do what he wishes. It's just best for ALL options to be presented for a decision. That is all.

Cooler until you set the fan properly which is what I said. More memory? The 1GB 4870 is available now as an option. Less power? Who really has a PSU in a gaming system that can't handle the 4870? If you built your system, i'm sure your PSU is fine if you built the system as a higher end/gaming machine.

I'm just saying, the GTX280 is overrated at this point in time. It may "sometimes" be faster, but for an extra $100 I want "always faster". Plus the card is longer which presents another problem for some people trying to fit it in the case.

I really think it's wrong to have to always go to Nvidia as the only option. ATI has a good card now that offers a better value.

Sure, set the fan to a higher speed. That does work. Still hot, but does bring the temps down. Then we have the 1GB version of the 4870, which is 299.99. The 512 version is 250.00 with rebate. The GTX260 is 219 after rebate. Tell me, do you think the 1GB version of the 4870 is worth 80.00 more than a GTX260? If so, you must think the GTX280 is worth the 100.00 over the 4870 then, right? Oh, but you already stated that it wasn't.
Power consumption wasn't referring to what PSU was needed, but overall system power usage. So, the only thing you mentioned that "could" hold any water, is the longer card. In that case, move a hard drive up or down a bay for the clearance.

You really think it's wrong to choose Nvidia on what principle? Because it's not ATI?
If you wish to be fair to the OP, and it doesn't look like you do, you need to list pros and cons of ALL available options. In this particular case, you'll find that not only does the 4870512 come up short in price/performance, but that the 1GB version is even worse.

List both cards side by side. The 4870512 or 1GB whichever, next to a GTX260.
I know the pros and cons of each card. Do you? If you list them, you'd better list them accurately and without bias. Else I'll call you on it. If you do it right, you won't here a single peep from me.

Good Luck.

 

[coreyb]

I am now convinced that the 260 would be my best option.

 

[darXoul]

It's a good idea, actually. Due to availability problems ragarding 280 FTW, I thought I'd get a BFG 260 GTX MaxCore OCX instead. It's an awesome card. Cheaper than 280, really really close in terms of performance to a non-OCed 280, plus pretty quiet and draws less power. A great card IMO.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
You really think it's wrong to choose Nvidia on what principle? Because it's not ATI?
If you wish to be fair to the OP, and it doesn't look like you do, you need to list pros and cons of ALL available options. In this particular case, you'll find that not only does the 4870512 come up short in price/performance, but that the 1GB version is even worse.

List both cards side by side. The 4870512 or 1GB whichever, next to a GTX260.
I know the pros and cons of each card. Do you? If you list them, you'd better list them accurately and without bias. Else I'll call you on it. If you do it right, you won't here a single peep from me.

Good Luck.

Yet you haven't listed any pro for the HD4870 in this thread. You've only listed the pros of the GTX 260, hence why people are calling you out.

And by the way: the HD4870 512MB for $240. Using Anandtech's benchmarks, the HD4870 512MB outperforms the GTX 260 on an average of 9% at the resolution of 1900x1200. The 1GB version is 14.5% faster than the GTX 260 and 9% faster than the Core 216. At the lowest prices found for each card on newegg ($240 vs. $215), the HD4870 is only 11% more expensive. This just shows that the GTX 260 is a slightly better value overall (like any other cheaper card should be), but the HD4870 is league's away from being a horrible purchase. And all of these cards are a much better buy than the GTX 280, which ranges from 76% to 26% more expensive than these cards.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
You really think it's wrong to choose Nvidia on what principle? Because it's not ATI?
If you wish to be fair to the OP, and it doesn't look like you do, you need to list pros and cons of ALL available options. In this particular case, you'll find that not only does the 4870512 come up short in price/performance, but that the 1GB version is even worse.

List both cards side by side. The 4870512 or 1GB whichever, next to a GTX260.
I know the pros and cons of each card. Do you? If you list them, you'd better list them accurately and without bias. Else I'll call you on it. If you do it right, you won't here a single peep from me.

Good Luck.

Yet you haven't listed any pro for the HD4870 in this thread. You've only listed the pros of the GTX 260, hence why people are calling you out.

And by the way: the HD4870 512MB for $240. Using Anandtech's benchmarks, the HD4870 512MB outperforms the GTX 260 on an average of 9% at the resolution of 1900x1200. The 1GB version is 14.5% faster than the GTX 260 and 9% faster than the Core 216. At the lowest prices found for each card on newegg ($240 vs. $215), the HD4870 is only 11% more expensive. This just shows that the GTX 260 is a slightly better value overall (like any other cheaper card should be), but the HD4870 is league's away from being a horrible purchase. And all of these cards are a much better buy than the GTX 280, which ranges from 76% to 26% more expensive than these cards.

Nobody is calling me out. I left it up to dredd. And here is Firing Squad's take on the matter. So who is right or wrong here?

Your mistake here is assuming I said the 4870 is a horrible purchase. It is a great piece of hardware, make no mistake about it. I did say that there was a better purchase in this particular case. And I agree with you when you say that all the above mentioned cards are a better buy than a GTX 280 at this time. Which is why the 260 was brought into this equation. Mind you, I'm talking about the 192 shader version 260.

If you would like to list the pros for the 4870512 or 1GB, please do so. To be perfectly honest, I cannot think of very many pros other than better AA performance higher than 4X, and DirectX 10.1 support. Two good points, but feel free to add any others you feel are true advantages over the GTX260.

Thanks