Buying Guide For Those Confused About a New PC

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
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Due to the number of Rate My Build threads, I decided to make this chart/list of components that are the cream of the crop at the particular price points to stop any confusion. Feel free to ask any questions or enlighten me if you feel any of these products are wrongly listed. Oh yeah, bump this thread if this thread has helped you.

CPUs

Value CPU
Sempron 64 3400+

Value Gaming CPU
AMD 64 3200+

Middle Gaming CPU
AMD 64 3700+

Value Gaming CPU 2/Ocing CPU
AMD Opteron 144

Multicore CPU
AMD 64X2 3800+

Overclocking Multicore CPU
AMD Opteron 165

High End Multicore CPU
AMD 64 X2 4400+

Why are all the cpus AMD? Because dollar for dollar, AMDs will outperform any intel chip out today on the desktop market. Pentium 4s use a architecture called Netburst which means that it has low instructions per clock but very high pure megahertz rating. AMDs have a different architecture which executes many instructions per clock on a shorter pipeline for lower pure megahertz rating but higher performance overall. The difference is like a Semi Truck and a Corvette. The Corvette may seem faster but the Semi truck will transport the load of bricks much faster overall. Furthermore, AMD's X86-64 is more mature than EM64T and has a lot more 64bit programs that run on AMD's 64bitr architecture than Intel's. There is a third choice for 64bit called IA64(Intel Itanium only) which should not even be on any list if you are considering a home system to run normal programs on. There are about 3700 IA 64 applications, but unless CRM and SAS are words you use daily when doing home computing, 99.9% of those programs are worthless to you.

As for the debate between multicore and singlecore, Multicore is always better. Multicore is the wave of the future and programs are more and more cokmmonly supporting multicore. Sice CPUs arent all that critical for gaming, I would recommend a multicore if you can afford it. Multitasking just feels so much more smooth.

Motherboards
------Socket 939 ocing

Non SLI(value)
EPOX EP-9NPA+Ultra
MSI RS482M4-ILD Micro ATX(is smaller and less able for expansion but has onboard video)

SLI
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium(fanless solution since some users are really annoyed by the high pitched fan on other motherboards)
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR Expert (support and documentation not as good as asus so for experts only. overclocks better though.)

Ulltra High End Nforce4 Sli
ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe(Fanless since some users are really annoyed by the high pitched fan on other motherboards and allows both cards when in sli to run at full 16x speed. Really only need if you are using dual chip 4 way sli, otherwise the bandwith isn't really needed.)

Crossfire
Asus A8R32-MVP Deluxe

------Socket 754

Value
Gigabyte GA-K8NE
ASUS K8N-VM Micro ATX(is smaller and less able for expansion but has onboard video)

Premium
Asus K8N4-E DELUXE

You may have other boards to add, but I chose these for their name brand, overclockability and features. Going with a company like ASUS or DFI means you cant lose. You know the boards will be reliable, good overclockers(as per reviews) and if anything goes wrong, you can easily go through the RMA process and get a board back if you are in warranty.

Micro ATX requires a case that supports microatx mounting points. They are less able to expand and offer less slots for cards usually.

Also, if you do go and buy the fanless A8N Sli Premium or A8N32SLI Deluxe, make sure you have a regualr ATX case, not some special case that mounts the motherboard upside down. Make sure the alrge heatsink is facing up not down.

Ram

Value Ram 1gb
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB)

Low Latency Ram 1gb(not recommended unless you have money to burn)
G.SKILL 1GB (2 x 512MB)

Value Ram 2GB
CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1GB)(Better than G.Skill 2x1GB since it costs less and has a lifetime warranty, otherwise identical)
G.SKILL Value 2GB (2 x 1GB)(Use this for Some DFI boards since Corsair ValueSelect and certain DFI boards dont play well together)

Low Latency Ram 2GB(not recommended unless you have money to burn)
CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB)

Overclocking ram is not listed since overclocking is very YMMV(Your Mileage May Vary) and to be honest, AMD64s dont really care about bandwith. Latency affects performance more than bandwith but in general, unless you do a lot of encodig/decoding, ram will not make a real difference and ram is one of the worst performance upgrades you can spend money on dollar for performance dollar.

Graphics Cards

~$100
eVGA Geforce 6800XT

~$150
eVGA Geforce 6800GS CO SE
SAPPHIRE Radeon X850XT(faster but lacks SM3 which is really starting to come of age and is supported in many popular games)

~200
Leadtek Geforce 7600GT

~250
eVGA Geforce 7800GT

~300
eVGA Geforce 7900GT
SAPPHIRE 100154 Radeon X1800XT

~350
REFURBISHED: MSI Geforce 7800GTX(Should be good,but ymmv)

~450
SAPPHIRE Radeon X1900XT(basicalyl as fast asa x1900xtx and overclocks to x1900xtx speeds usually.)

~Sky is the limit
SAPPHIRE Radeon X1900XTX
eVGA Geforce 7900GTX (About same speed as x1900xtx when compared in non sli. In SLI it will be faster than a 1900xtx in crossfire, but if you like high levels of AA, the X1900xt will be faster)

HTPC Graphics Card
MSI 7300GS
Sapphire X1300 (If you need dual dvi or fanless)

These are the general consensus cards out there.
Nvidia Drivers and ATI drivers are about on the same level. Many people complain about texture shimmering with Nvidia cards while ATI card drivers require .Net framework to be installed. As for the SM3 issue, SM3 allows many pretty effects like displacement mapping, parallax mapping and HDR lighting(most games need SM3 for HDR rendering, but some, like Half Life 2 and it's sibling games like Day of Defeat Source do not require SM3). As for why there is no high end HTPC cards, just pick a high end gaming card for your HTPC, but if you dont plant to do gaming on the HTPC, the two listed ill suffice.

There is a debate of SLI, Crossfire and Single Card. SLI/Crossfire should only be used when there is no single card solution to reach the speeds you want. A lower card in SLI/Crossfire like 6800gt or x1600XT are worthless since you could have the exact same amount of power with less heat dissapation, lower power requirements, and increased reliability(1 fan is more reliable than 2 fans just as 1 set of capacitors is mroe reliable than 2x as many capacitors). Also, some games do not support SLI or Crossifre and may gain no benefit at all from it.

If you decide to go dual card(as in Sli 7800gt/gtx or Crossfire x1900xtx), you shouldknow the advantages and disadvantages.

SLI:
*More mature and widely supported than crossfire. Also more efficent.
*Allows 16x aa
*Does not require a master card and external dongle for best performance. 2nd card must be identical card from the first though.
*Connector between cards in internal instead of external.

Crossfire:
*Allows 14x aa but is much faster than SLI aa. 14x aa is just barely slower than 4x aa, whereas, 8x or 16xaa on SLI will slow the game signifigantly compared to 4xaa.
*Does not need identical cards, The x1900series has a mastercard that can pair with any other x1900. It will clock itself to the correct speed and work.
*Getting more and more mature every day and the Crossfire motherboard I listed is the best motherboard money can buy right now. It is the best overclocking motherboard Anandtech has ever tested.

DVD Burner

Value:
NEC 3550a Black
NEC 3550a Silver
Benq DW1655 Black

High End
PLEXTOR Black IDE Slot Load(Style, nice for a HTPC so it blends in with the other components)
PLEXTOR Beige SATA DVD Burner Model PX-716SA/SW (if you've run out of ide channels)

These should be the cream of the crop. The NEC and BenQ should do basically as well as the plextor, but the plextors have special features no other (good)DVD drives have, like slot loading and SATA capability.

Cases(chosen based on cooling and quietness)

Value Case and Power Supply
Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Computer Case With 450w power supply

Mid Level Case
Antec Performance I P180 Silver Computer Case No PS

High End Case
Lian Li Classical Silent PC-767 Silver/Black No PS

HTPC
SILVERSTONE LASCALA 10 CS-SST-LC10B Black(Value)
SILVERSTONE SST-LC01(High End)

Any case is mostly fine, but a better case wil be better laid out with easier upgrades, lower temps and quieter operation. You can go pratically any case and it will work but if you stick to this, you can get a solid case for many upgrades or new system builds to come. When buying a case, look for good airflow, big fans(bigger the better since bigger fans spin slower to move the same amount of air, thus being quieter) and a nice design you like. Also, make sure the steel edges are rolled ro buy an aluminum case. If the case is steel but the edges aren't rolled, you can easily cut yourself and it is quite painful since the cut is very similar to a papercut.

Power Supplies

Low End
FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX450-PN, 12cm FAN
ZIPPY HG2-6300P-SATA 300W(for lower power systems but it has great rail control)

Mid Range
FSP Group (Fortron Source) FX700-GLN ATX12V/ EPS12V 700W

High End
PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI

Ultra High End
PC Power & Cooling TURBO-COOL 850

This is an area where I could use the expertise of some people. The FSPs are nice low to mid end power supplies as are the Zippy. The PC&P are excellent(best bar none) power supplies, for a price that is. Of course, there are oher valid options like Seasonic(excellent mid to high end), Sparkle(a subcomapny of FSP/Fortron), Antec(some people have problems with new units messed up the first time it boots, but if it runs fine the first time, it's golden) and Enermax I beleive. Whay you should avoid are generic and Thermaltake(way overrates wattage rating), and Ultra/Xconnect(not very reliable). If you opted for the Valuecase with a psu, a additional psu shouldnt be necessary except in special situations where you need more power.

Hard Drive

Low End
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 80GB(SATA)

Mid Range
SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series 250GB(IDE)
SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series 250GB (SATA)

High End
Western Digital Caviar SE16 400GB(SATA)

Pure Performance
Western Digital Raptor 150GB

SATA and IDE are the same in performance. No harddrive can satureate a IDE channel yet so dont worry about that. he only advantage of SATA is that it has prettier wires.

Matrox tends to be low reliability compared to others, Seagate 7200.8 are also low reliablilty, otherwise the others will be fine. WD is faster, Samsung is quiet and cool, Seagate and Maxtor (same company now) are a balance between WD and Samsung.

Raid 0 is only useful for sustained transfers. Seek times are increased for higher sustained transfer rates so for normal use, Raid0 will either give you a marginal benefit or none at all or even a small decrease in performance. If oyu transfer many large files though Raid0 is worth it.

Raid 1 is worth it if you have critical information.

Raid 5 is damn expensive but offers the advantages and disadvantages of 1+0.

Hint: If you want to buy a HDD, do not buy from newegg, a retail store usually has big sales on HDDS. I hot 2 hitachi 7k250 160gb HDDs for $20 each on black friday. The only problem is if you want Samsung(which is my favorite brand). They are only available online and to pc builder companies(usually HP, sometimes Dell) and almost never go on sale.

Sound Cards

Low End
Onboard

Mid End Gaming
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS

High End Gaming
Creative SOUND BLASTER X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS

Music
M-AUDIO 9900-40901-00 Sound Card

High End Music
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic(works well for games too)

Extreme High End
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite(way too much money imho)

A sound card should be proportional to the quality of your speakers. You shouldnt hook up some Logitech Z-5450, Creative GigaWorks S750, or Klipsch PROMEDIA ULTRA 5.1 to a onboard sound system but neither should yuo hook up some Cyber Acoustics CA-3090 2.1 to a Xfi Elite. As a general rule of thumb, 2.1 or less is fine with onboard but surround shound should really come from a dedicated music card. Of course there are obvious exceptions like if you want to enjoy some M-AUDIO StudioPro 4 2.0 Pro or Klipsch ProMedia 2.1, you should hook them up to the M-AUDIO 9900-40901-00 Sound Card or a Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS respectively.

Monitors

Value CRT
19" Sony CPD-E400 Trinitron FD

Value LCD
Need Suggestions

High End CRT
24" Sony Trinitron GDM-FW900(only if you ar a weightlifter and your desk is reinforced. Best picture quality available)

High End LCD
Dell 34" 2405FPW

Ultra High End LCD
Dell 30" 3007FPW LCD(Needs Dual-link DVI Video Card)

In general, a well set up crt will alays be better than a well set up LCD. Blacks will be darker, Whites will be brighter, it iwll be able to adapt to different resolutions. LCDS have a native resolution( a set number of pixels horizontally and vertically) so it cannot as effectively represent other resolutions than native witouth a) an large image quality drop or b) a smaller image surrounded by black bars. CRTS can compensate since it has a large(though not infinite) number of phosphors to hit with the electron gun so any resolution will look good and sharp.

Now, the Dual Link DVI is a special connecotr that hugh resolutions monitors using DVI need because normal DVI dosent prvide enough bandwith. A single link is good up to 1920x1080 while a dual link is good up to 2048x1536. Dual link has 3 rows of 8 while Single link has 2 banks of 3 rows with 3 pins each seperated by a space 3 rows high and 2 pins wide. Some Video cards may support dual link and some only single link.

These are all my opinions so take it for what it's worth.

If you have any special needs like say a ultra cheap pc or a business pc or anything, feel free to post a request in here or PM me and i'll try to get back to you and help you.

The areas I feel I am not qulified to give an opinion on are TV tuners(lack of knowledge) and peripherals(I will give an opinion, buit with mice/keyboards, it's mostly personal preference and ergonomics that determine it).
 

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
8,882
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Originally posted by: furballi
At this time, the CPU is NOT the limiting factor for GAMERS. Spend as much as possible on the video processor and overclock the Sempron 3100 to the equivalent of a stock A64 3200. A good 3100 Sempron chip can rival the A64 3500 or A64 3700.

http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4705559

a computer is used for more than gaming. espically with hdtv video and everything else. raping your cpu. 1080i video skip[s horribly on my machine with a 2.4ghz amd64.

also, the motherboards and chips i linked have a future. They all include pci-express, overclockability and 64bit implementation. The 3100+ is nowhere near as fast as a 3200+ amd64. Semprons are rated on a different scale than amd64s. A 3100+ is slower than a 2800+ amd64.

The 3100+ non 64 also lacks sse3 support and the motherboard you linked can hardly be considered overclocking material. ECS quality is iffy, customer service is iffy and i would not trust my pc to a ecs generic board with agp8x, since an agp card is more expensive than a pci-e card of the same performance once you move into the midrange and agp dosent have a single high end performance card.
 

n7

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2004
21,303
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BenQ DQ60 = crappy
BenQ DW1650/DW1655 = test bestest
 

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
8,882
1
81
Originally posted by: n7
BenQ DQ60 = crappy
BenQ DW1650/DW1655 = test bestest

changed. I'm not familiar with benq, i just knew the nec 3550a and plextors were the cream of the crop.
 

furballi

Banned
Apr 6, 2005
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If the video skips at 1080i, then there is a problem with the software and/or hardware. Ever take apart a high-end stand-alone HD video processor? The computing power is just a fraction of the A64 2.4GHz.

Sempron 3100 @ 2.44GHz, 1.55Vcore with the ECS board. 1M digits Super Pi time of 38.1 sec. Let's see a stock A64 3500 DO THAT! This Sempron also support 64 bit.

No widespread acceptance of PCI express for at least another two years. By that time, one can amortize the cost of the $90 combo and build a much faster system for about the same amount of $. The majority of PCI devices don't even tax the full capability of the bus! PCI express is pure hype at this time. I guarantee there will be advancement in PCI express in the next two years that will render current PCI express technology semi-obsolete.

Care to provide links with benchmarks to support the benefit of SSE3? Most important, will the user realize the benefit of SSE3 in real-world use?

How's 278MHz FSB for a $40 ECS board? The majority of quality CPUs (10x and 11x multipliers) will max out around 260MHz FSB. ECS is a top-tier MB vendor. You don't stay in this business for long without quality and reliability.

High-end gamers would never spend $90 on a MB/CPU combo. Pop in a $150 AGP card to run the majority of today's games at moderate resolution.
 

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
8,882
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Originally posted by: furballi
If the video skips at 1080i, then there is a problem with the software and/or hardware. Ever take apart a high-end stand-alone HD video processor? The computing power is just a fraction of the A64 2.4GHz.

Sempron 3100 @ 2.44GHz, 1.55Vcore with the ECS board. 1M digits Super Pi time of 38.1 sec. Let's see a stock A64 3500 DO THAT! This Sempron also support 64 bit.

No widespread acceptance of PCI express for at least another two years. By that time, one can amortize the cost of the $90 combo and build a much faster system for about the same amount of $. The majority of PCI devices don't even tax the full capability of the bus! PCI express is pure hype at this time. I guarantee there will be advancement in PCI express in the next two years that will render current PCI express technology semi-obsolete.

Care to provide links with benchmarks to support the benefit of SSE3? Most important, will the user realize the benefit of SSE3 in real-world use?

How's 278MHz FSB for a $40 ECS board? The majority of quality CPUs (10x and 11x multipliers) will max out around 260MHz FSB. ECS is a top-tier MB vendor. You don't stay in this business for long without quality and reliability.

High-end gamers would never spend $90 on a MB/CPU combo. Pop in a $150 AGP card to run the majority of today's games at moderate resolution.


SSE3 is a worldwide standard. Instructions to add and subtract the multiple values stored within a single register have been added. These instructions simplify the implementation of a number of DSP and 3D operations. There is also a new instruction to convert floating point values to integers without having to change the global rounding mode, thus avoiding costly pipeline stalls. Finally, the extension adds LDDQU, an alternative misaligned integer vector load that has better performance for loads that cross cacheline boundaries.
CPU prerendering rightmark performance as tested by anandtech
CPU overall rendering rightmark performance as tested by anandtech

Now of course, SSE3 wont help in everything, but it iwll help in a lot of things.

as for AGP, I love my agp system, but AGP has died. In the last 10 months, 1 notable card has come to AGP, the 7800gs. It is basicalyl the same performance as the 6800ultra and X850xt of last gen. There are no more AGP cards on the roadmaps of both companies and the fastest pci-express card is now about 2x as fast as the fastest AGP card. In fact, a $300 agp card will be signifigantly slower than a $300 pci-e card(7800gs or X850xt v.s. 7800gt) A (new)$150 agp card is a joke. The best you can get for ~150 is a 6800nu. Crippled by 128mb of slow memory, it will not run fear at 1280x1024 high or Call of Duty at 1024x768 high at smooth framerates(~45-60fps average). I was in the market a few weeks ago for a good $150 agp card and there is none to be found. Lets face it PCI-E is much more iwdespread than AGP now and if you are gaming, AGP is a complete waste. Newegg lists 185 AGP 4x/8x cards, 1 AGP 4x/8x Pro card and 2 AGP 2x/4x cards, all of which are at most midrange in speed. There are 345 PCI-Express cards in comparison, all the way from X300se to the X1900xtx.

If yuo look at the anandtech review, a 7800gt($250) v.s. a 7800gs($300), the pci-e 7800gt scores 63fps when the 6800gs scores 42fps in the f.e.a.r. test at 1280x960 no aa. This pattern is repeated for all the games.

As the old adage goes, "The king is dead,long live the king."

Originally posted by: sigpop
nice list. sharkey used to do something similar, not sure if they still do

http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/guides/MVGSBG/index.php

you might want to indicate that this is the best for gaming rigs, not necessarily all computing needs.

I figure i'll expand it to include business needs and others soon enough. I'll even add some P4s for those that need encoding/decoding a lot.
 

alimoalem

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2005
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i like what you're doing but some things could be changed..

motherboards: why not add a budget board with onboard video? i think gigabyte makes a good one for $70 and it has a 6100 built in

also, you can add the asus a8n32 premium or whatever board that costs $2xx for premium s939

ram: i think adding the G.Skill 2x1gig kit (CL 2.5) for $145 is pretty good for the value ram section

cases: what about adding a budget budget case/psu combo for $50? it's hard forking over $90 for a case (antec sonata) and $50 for a psu (fortron 450w) when making a budget system imo

just for the overall cleanliness, i think it would be easier if you had a "space" between each item. for example, in the graphics card section, doing this would be better:

~$100
eVGA 6800XT
(space)
~$150
eVGA 6800GS CO SE
(space)
SAPPHIRE Radeon X850XT

i wasn't sure at first if you meant the X850XT was in the ~$150 section or not


once again, great job with the list
 

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
8,882
1
81
Originally posted by: alimoalem
i like what you're doing but some things could be changed..

motherboards: why not add a budget board with onboard video? i think gigabyte makes a good one for $70 and it has a 6100 built in

also, you can add the asus a8n32 premium or whatever board that costs $2xx for premium s939

ram: i think adding the G.Skill 2x1gig kit (CL 2.5) for $145 is pretty good for the value ram section

cases: what about adding a budget budget case/psu combo for $50? it's hard forking over $90 for a case (antec sonata) and $50 for a psu (fortron 450w) when making a budget system imo

just for the overall cleanliness, i think it would be easier if you had a "space" between each item. for example, in the graphics card section, doing this would be better:

~$100
eVGA 6800XT
(space)
~$150
eVGA 6800GS CO SE
(space)
SAPPHIRE Radeon X850XT

i wasn't sure at first if you meant the X850XT was in the ~$150 section or not


once again, great job with the list


I aadded 2, 1 for 939 and 754. too ad they are all matx boards. not a single ATX from pci-e and onboard system.

the case and psu are included in the $90 price for the sonata. It ahs a 450w antec smartpower with 32A on the +12 rails

 

Mendoza13

Junior Member
Nov 11, 2004
4
0
0
Bump for updates? There used to be an updated Buyers Guide thread that contained every component, but this is the closest one I could find.
 

Remedy

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 1999
3,981
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Why would anyone pay $120 for a Sempron64 when the Pentium-D 805 is Dual-core and cost the $5 more?:confused: