Buying decision - AMD 754 or 939?

[integspec]

Dear All,

I'm planning to go for an AMD 64 system, however I'm confused because of AMD's switch between 754 and 939.
I wonder whether any of you can comment:

When will Mobo manufacturers start shipping 939 Mobos to the market (Other than Asus & MSI)?
Whether there is a possibility for AMD 64 3200 939 (Newcastle) to go down in prices / if yes, when?

AMD 64 3000 (754) and Chaintech ZNF3-250 (Zenith) fits my budget nicely and unfortunately current 939s are over my budget. Also I think
AMD might discontinue the 754 soon.

Hope it's not too many questions Many thanks for your replies.

 

[effee]

No it wont. 754 will be used as its main platform when the XP series fades into the sunset, so you can be sure it'll be around. Stick to 754, their performances overlap with the 939 and some are on par with each other. But sooner or later 939 will start to pull away, and when that happens, prices will finally be reasonable to get a 939 processor/mobo.

Plus, there's gonna be a huge drop in prices, well not exactly huge, but a drop nonetheless when the 4000+ and FX55 comes out

 

[Mik3y]

Originally posted by: effee
Plus, there's gonna be a huge drop in prices, well not exactly huge, but a drop nonetheless when the 4000+ and FX55 comes out

yes, if my sources are correct, the wait for teh new cpu's is about a week or so long!

 

[imported_Bleh]

Read the new Anandtech review of the 3000+ 939 90 nm http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...ts/showdoc.aspx?i=2242

2.6 ghz on air cooling says it all. Should be just slightly behind or on par with the upcoming fx55.

 

[Painman]

Using Newegg's pricing, you're proposing $143 for a mobo and $155 for the proc... roughly $300.

For roughly the same cash, you could grab a 939 3000+ and an ABIT AV8 and be on socket 939 with an overclockable 90nm chip.

 

[Zebo]

754 = sensible
939 = emotional

You can get a 2800 for $140 and a Chiantech for $70 totaling out at $210. Roughly 30% cheaper than cheapest 939 setup. No way a a 939 setup offers even 5% more performance to justify it's 30% price premium. Overclcoked or not.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: Zebo
754 = sensible
939 = emotional

You can get a 2800 for $140 and a Chiantech for $70 totaling out at $210. Roughly 30% cheaper than cheapest 939 setup. No way a a 939 setup offers even 5% more performance to justify it's 30% price premium. Overclcoked or not.

You and I both should be grateful to these "emotional" system builders for creating and expanding market demand for 939. I'm waiting for the same thing(s) to pan out as you, namely PCI-E and SLI, though not necessarily in an nVidia flavor. If no one was biting the hook now, do you think companies would be pouring millions of dollars into developing the platform further? Those millions have to come from somewhere.

 

[Bateluer]

S754 will be relegated to the Sempron line after the release of the A64 3700, that alone makes me want to steer clear of it. I like to at least have a good solid platform, even if my CPU is a bit slower in the short term.

 

[Finch75]

For "good advice", we'd need to know your current system. What's your timeframe for upgrading?
Personally, I'm waiting for an affordable 939 setup - which seems to be right around the corner. Maybe another 4 weeks?! I am not sure about the Mobos, but will probably want to get an Asus anyway

Have you read http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...ts/showdoc.aspx?i=2233 ?
Seems to answer many questions

AMD might discontinue the 754 soon.

Yeah, almost. Read the article. If it lasts for another year, but the fastest "future" processor will be a Sempron 3400+, it's basically dead already... (as far as an "upgrade path" is concerned). I personally love the idea of getting an affordable 3000+ S939 now and then buying a cheap 4500+ on ebay in early 2006 )))

I don't agree with effee:

754 will be used as its main platform when the XP series fades into the sunset

I don't think it is the "main platform" even today. It's already been "downgraded" into the value segment although "fast" processors are still available. Nothing faster than today will be available in the future. 939 is the "main platform" and the introduction of cheaper processors for 939 supports this.

But sooner or later 939 will start to pull away

Yes, that's happening NOW. I'm not saying you should buy the fastest processor available - it really depends on what you already have and what you want to do with it. 754 is a dead end, that's for sure...

As I said: Without knowing your current setup or your needs (and of course, if you're an "emotional" or a "sensible" buyer *g*), I can't say more... My recommendation: S939 3000+ - the price difference to the S754 (mainboard) should be marginal at best...

P.S.: If we're REALLY lucky, the new dual core processors might fit into the "old" S939 90nm mainboards. IIRC, AMD has said that any mainboard running 90nm Opterons will be able to run the dual core Opterons (sometimes a BIOS update might be required). Of course Opteron (mainboards) and A64 (mainboards) are different stories, but one may dream )). (maybe we should all start bugging ASUS with emails asking if the MB will support dual core *g*)
S939 just seems to make more sense... I wasn't willing to pay the 200$ difference, but with the 939 3000+, that's been eliminated!

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Painman

Originally posted by: Zebo
754 = sensible
939 = emotional

You can get a 2800 for $140 and a Chiantech for $70 totaling out at $210. Roughly 30% cheaper than cheapest 939 setup. No way a a 939 setup offers even 5% more performance to justify it's 30% price premium. Overclcoked or not.

You and I both should be grateful to these "emotional" system builders for creating and expanding market demand for 939. I'm waiting for the same thing(s) to pan out as you, namely PCI-E and SLI, though not necessarily in an nVidia flavor. If no one was biting the hook now, do you think companies would be pouring millions of dollars into developing the platform further? Those millions have to come from somewhere.

There's a lot more I'm looking Fwd to in NF4. Has it ever occured to you why ABIT never made a NF3 at all, why DFI was real late with one? Why none of 939 boards are anything to write home about? ..conjecture is fun but NF3 all in all is a bit weak on features too. The sound solution all require external sound card, many boards won't work with three dimms, and natually no PCIe is a negative IMO since all video cards are moving that way. DDR2 is less of a problem since DDR is still faster.

My only point, is it's crazy to buy a 939 NF3 over a 754 NF3 since all you get is about 2-5% increase in performance with less good mobos all around (certainly nothing like DFI's 754) and all is at a higher cost.

754, or wait and see how NF4 pans out then 939 it is the best way to go IMO

Those millions have to come from somewhere

LOL True, but they ain't coming from me. (excluding video cards and monitors which I tend to get crazy on)

 

[BW86]

Chaintech VNF3-250 + A64 2800 $203 at mwave.com

 

[integspec]

Dear All,

Thank you for your kind replies. I think it's better to go for the 939. Well, yes it could be emotional, then again it could also be a decision based on caution (to avoid a end of line architechture).

I hope Chaintech would release a VNF series Mobo soon for 939 architechture. So far in Seoul, the only 3500 is available in 939 flavour and it's over my budget. Will wait for the 939 3200 and a good mobo.

Cheers.

 

[Colrenea]

Don't 754 based boards require registered DIMMS? Won't that increase the price?

 

[christoph83]

Originally posted by: Colrenea
Don't 754 based boards require registered DIMMS? Won't that increase the price?

No. I believe that is for the 940 based motherboards.

 

[Lithan]

939 will cost you about $300-325 for mobo/cpu (k8n neo2/3000+). 754 will cost you $175-225 for mobo/cpu (Chaintech, epox, gigabyte/3100+/2800+) ~$100 difference when all is said and done for DCDDR and maybe 256megs more cache. Your decision if it's worth it. Right now I'd only recommend 754/dtr, 754/sempron, 754/2800+ or 939/3000+ if you want affordable.

 

[Zebo]

integspec 939 boards suck!! And good luck getting one with a fresh bios that recongnises your new winchester..or have a freind that will let you flash with his NC 939.

Trust the overclcokers!
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43591

 

[Shimmishim]

i agree

there are no standout 939 board except maybe the a8v by asus

....

as tempting as it is to switch to 939 due to the overclockability of these new winchester 90nm chips... i think i will stick with the 754 until nforce4 + pci-e + sli

i dunno if emotional is a good way to describe people who want a 939 but... come on 2.6 on air is pretty sweet and tempting! considering i can only get about 2.75 ghz out of my 3000+ NC on prommy cooling

 

[Dustswirl]

Originally posted by: Shimmishim

[...]

as tempting as it is to switch to 939 due to the overclockability of these new winchester 90nm chips... i think i will stick with the 754 until nforce4 + pci-e + sli

[...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amen

 

[suklee]

Originally posted by: Zebo
754, or wait and see how NF4 pans out then 939 it is the best way to go IMO

My sentiments exactly :thumbsup:

 

[cyberknight]

I usually don't bother with upgrades. (except for video cards and RAM). If I plan to get a new CPU, I'm most likely gonna get a new mobo too and vice versa.

I think a S754 is a more sound decision as of TODAY. As stated, the S939 is somewhat of an emotional decision. Maybe a bit of ego I would say. "Oh look at me! I can UPGRADE BABY!"

And the Dual Channel of the 939 isn't that big of a deal since the on die controller of the S754 makes up the difference.

And if you decide to get a S939 TODAY, you'll be missing out on the PCI-Express. So basically, you originally bought a S939 so you can upgrade your CPU in the future, but also in the future, you'll be unable to upgrade your PCI-X. So it's somewhat like shooting yourself in the foot to buying a motherboard solely for the purposes of upgrading. (technology is always changing anyways)

Not only that, S754 CPU's are faster than the 939's at the lower spectrum (and at a lower cost)

but it's your money right?

 

[Losty]

dang i've been out of the computer field for a while and have lil idea what you are talking about ...
but if you are plannin on getting a mobo/cpu just for an upgrade in the future ... i was thinking the same thing when i bought my first athlon ... and it lasted 4 years without any problems...
these days ... technology advances so fast ... you could get a cheaper s754 set .. and in a few years ... upgrade to whatever is popular and new at the time ... you'll probably end up changing your mobo at the same time you change your cpu ... unless you plan on upgrading every 6 months

i guess it's up to what you think you need ... what you need now will be different from what you'll need in about a year ....

i'm going to build a mid system with the 2800+ or 3100sempron/vnf 220 isn't much for an upgrade

 

[Zebo]

i dunno if emotional is a good way to describe people who want a 939 but...

It's not logic. The mobos suck compared to 754. 939 have nothing that can touch a DFI UT in quality and performance or a Chaintech VNF3 in terms of value and performance...many more 754 boards are great ..all crap on 939 side... The cost is 33% more for maybe 5% more performance = poor value = not logic = emotional buying. The platform is just as "dated" as 754 since no PCIe, no good sound, no great chipsets.

What's it's all about? Dual channel. People get all excited seeing the 7500 sisoft mem scores and throw reason out the window wanting it now. Especially AMD users who have been denied memory bandwitdh for so long compared to Intel users. I know I do...must resist...

 

[cyberknight]

Couldn't agree more. I don't get why ppl say S754 is "dead" especially when Soltek releases it's value K8AN2E-GR board only a few months ago and DFI just releases a motherboard designed for the overclockers. I think it's S939 that is lacking the features at the moment.

I'm sure many of you have taken a look at X-bit labs article on overclocking the Sempron 3100+.

 

[TStep]

It really depends on your buying habits. If you change your setups quite frequently, it really does not matter what you buy. I have not tried an A64 yet for the simple fact that in the beginning, no one could provide an AGP/PCI lock. To reiterate Zebo, we are just seeing "enthusiast" boards now; ie DFI. As a matter of fact, I'm so uninspired with the current offerings from both sides of the fence, I've been screwing with outdated platforms such as tualatins, socket 370, mobile P4M's, etc.

With the impending transitions to DDR2, dual core, and PCIE, I cannot believe that any current platform has longevity built in. I do not think longevity should be an issue.

Edit: piss poor spelling

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: TStep
It really depends on your buying habits. If you change your setups quite frequently, it really does not mater what you buy. I have not tried an A64 yet for the simple fact that in the begining, no one could provide an AGP/PCI lock. To reiterate Zebo, we are just seeing "enthusiast" boards now; ie DFI. As a matter of fact, I'm so uninsprired with the current offerings from both sides of the fence, I've been screwing with outdated platforms such as tualatins, socket 370, mobile P4M's, etc.

With the impending transitions to DDR2, dual core, and PCIE, I cannot believe that any current platform has longevity built in. I do not think longevity should be an issue.

.. you bring up good points. The wisest buyer always waits for maturity and full compatability. For example a 875/p4c or mobile xp/nV MCP-T setup is the way to go right now if you still want good performance with rock solid solutions. "early adopting" is wrought with folly, especially with so many changes on the horizon right now.

Problem is many can't wait and still want the best performance. They will pay the price though. For example... I just got a new $400 AGP card for my A643000...but now I need a new card in about 2 months due to real 939 boards about to come out suppting PCIe. Just got some new TCCD memory..will pay the price again for my mistakes when DDR2 comes to 939 and have to buy yet another A64 board and high performance mem. Just got a $220 Lain Li ATX case when things may be moving to BTX. Arrr.

Im choosing not to place another mistake in the road by buying a 939/agp solution right now.