Buying an UPS

[velis]

I'm trying to buy an UPS (hope this is the correct forum for that) and running into some surprises, mostly because there are so many unknown companies offering solutions.

Basically what I want is surge protection and as much independence as possible for 2 PCs + 1 monitor. Estimated sustained load during outages around 200W, mostly because of the monitor. However, it seems that offerings tie capacity to VA rating. I'm not sure if I shuld go with VI or VFI solution (power is VERY stable in my home even during thunderstorms)

My problem:
So I have APC (known, but expensive), AEG (known company, though I don't know about theit UPS line) followed by all unknowns: PowerWalker, BlueWalker, Samurai, Tecnoware.

The unknowns beat APC at features, power rating AND capacity at the same price point, which makes them attractive to consider, but are they any good at all? AEG seems to price its products similar as unknowns which places a huge question mark over it as well.

Any advice?

 

[NAC]

I had a Cyberpower UPS, and recently upgraded - I needed a more powerful UPS because of a computer upgrade. I got another Cyberpower. I'm happy with both units - no problems at all.

I had considered spending more for an APC unit, or similar money for a lower power unit. For the power I needed, the APC unit is fan cooled, which is probably better for longevity, but I didn't want the noise. My Cyberpower units don't have active fans. To be honest, I haven't heard of the other brands you list.

I do think you generally get what you pay for. So if reliability is very important for you, then perhaps you want to get an APC.

 

[UsandThem]

Slickdeals' website is down right now, but I saw this on there the other day. If I needed one, I would have grabbed it because I think it is a pretty solid deal.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1272547-REG/cyberpower_cp1500pfclcd_pfc_sinewave_ups.html

 

[bigboxes]

Get the UPS that USandThem posted. I have two of them and love them.

 

[WilliamM2]

Get a refurbed APC.
http://www.refurbups.com/Refurbished-UPS-Systems/APC-Smart-UPS-Tower-Specials

I've had great luck with them. I think Cyberpower greatly overrates their UPS capacity. The last one I had was 1100VA, and it would run my system for about 5-7 minutes at idle. My current APC SUA750 (bought as a refurb 4.5 years ago) will run my system for 60 minutes while watching Netflix.

 

[Elixer]

Get a refurbed APC.
http://www.refurbups.com/Refurbished-UPS-Systems/APC-Smart-UPS-Tower-Specials

I've had great luck with them. I think Cyberpower greatly overrates their UPS capacity. The last one I had was 1100VA, and it would run my system for about 5-7 minutes at idle. My current APC SUA750 (bought as a refurb 4.5 years ago) will run my system for 60 minutes while watching Netflix.

I don't like refurb units, but to each their own.

As for how much runtime you get, doesn't matter what brand, it just matters what batteries they are using, and their rating.
2 9Ah batteries is going to last longer than 2 7Ah batteries.

 

[bigboxes]

I've got a 1000VA APC unit on my wife's rig. I used to have a 1250VA APC unit on my file server, but it had a fan that was tiny and loud. Hated it. Would never turn off. When it gave up the ghost I bought another CyberPower 1500VA unit and just love it. Can't turn off the bright lights on the APC unit's buttons. Turn off all the sounds and lights on the CyberPower. They only go on if there is an outage. Used to have some Belkin ones back in the 2000's that were ok with the lower power boxes back in the day, but was a bitch to change out the batteries with out tearing them apart. I've currently got two; one for the file sever and one for my main rig. The monitor, speakers and all networking equipment are plugged in as well. What good is the network if it's down? I rarely get extended power outages where I have to turn off my computers. They run 24/7. Right now the CyberPower widget says that it can run for 51 minutes on the UPS. Think I even have my Ott Lite hooked up. It's pretty sweet when the power goes out and you can keep on being productive.

 

[velis]

Thanks for your suggestions guys. Due to cold-start capability I have all but decided to go vith a VFI (online) unit, which pretty much eliminates APC due to planned budget (~500 EUR).

Also, that slick CyberPower UPS linked above inflates its price pretty quick on this side of the pond (415 EUR)

Side note: I started the click-through for an AEG C.3000, but it's too heavy, so I can't order it from Germany

 

[WilliamM2]

I've got a 1000VA APC unit on my wife's rig. I used to have a 1250VA APC unit on my file server, but it had a fan that was tiny and loud. Hated it. Would never turn off. When it gave up the ghost I bought another CyberPower 1500VA unit and just love it. Can't turn off the bright lights on the APC unit's buttons. Turn off all the sounds and lights on the CyberPower. They only go on if there is an outage. Used to have some Belkin ones back in the 2000's that were ok with the lower power boxes back in the day, but was a bitch to change out the batteries with out tearing them apart. I've currently got two; one for the file sever and one for my main rig. The monitor, speakers and all networking equipment are plugged in as well. What good is the network if it's down? I rarely get extended power outages where I have to turn off my computers. They run 24/7. Right now the APC widget says that it can run for 51 minutes on the UPS. Think I even have my Ott Lite hooked up. It's pretty sweet when the power goes out and you can keep on being productive.

If you use APC's Powerchute software, you can disable everything on the smart units (SUA), including beeps when the power goes out. Once you changed that, you can uninstall the software, and just let Windows handle shutdown, etc.

Nothing worse than a beeping backup when the power goes out for a minute or two while you are sleeping.

 

[bigboxes]

If you use APC's Powerchute software, you can disable everything on the smart units (SUA), including beeps when the power goes out. Once you changed that, you can uninstall the software, and just let Windows handle shutdown, etc.

Nothing worse than a beeping backup when the power goes out for a minute or two while you are sleeping.

It's the lights on the buttons that I want to turn off more than anything. Yes, I have the sounds turned off.

 

[Elixer]

It's the lights on the buttons that I want to turn off more than anything. Yes, I have the sounds turned off.

Black tape/finger nail polish works.

 

[bigboxes]

Black tape/finger nail polish works.

We just put a small towel over the top of the unit. But yeah, some black electrical tape would do the trick. Too bad APC couldn't design a unit where you could turn that crap off. It's like super bright white light. Got to make sure you see those buttons!

 

[velis]

Ultimately I went with a Samurai unit (the 3KVA one). It looks fine on specs. Will see how it acts in action.

 

[velis]

An update (after receiving the unit)

The unit looks OK, function is fine. Had issues connecting it via USB, so I bought a RS232 to USB cable which worked. Possibly problem on my PC's side, but I don't really believe that.

The fans are murder though: loud as heck. I nicked them "tornadoes". They are rated .5A each - that's 6W just for the fan, 12W for both!!! They do spin slower when not under heavy load, but that doesn't really decrease noise much.

Naturally, warranty explicitly specifies that any modding voids, but I'm not having this crap in my house: the unit was clearly audible even through a closed door

Anyway, bought 2x Xilence Red Wing 80's to replace them (.1A each), but the unit is too smart: now it detects that the fans are not eating enough juice and sounds the alarm. So I did a bit of soldering and joined both the new fans to one header (please note that you need 2pin to 3-4pin adapter anyway). If I add one original tornado, the unit no longer beeps. So now I'm waiting for a nice 10W 24Ohm resistor to arrive from Ireland which will hopefully fool the unit into thinking that fans are shitty - pardon my french - enough). Hopefully the unit isn't also checking harmonic distortions to see if it's really a fan on the other side too.

Please note that I've read that PowerWalker & BlueWalker units suffer from the same too cheap fans problem. But judging from my conversation with the service guy at the company that sold me the unit, a 3kVA APC unit would be just as loud as well. "It's just the way it is with online units above 1kVA." A shame really, because the case is clearly big enough for 4 quiet 12cm fans even.

 

[bigboxes]

I had an APC unit back in the day and I hated it due to the loud fans. Totally ruined my environment. And that's something when I have two computers running side by side with about 15 HDDs and 13 fans. But my PCs are fairly quiet. I thought it was going to be so great having APC. I hated it. Love the CyberPower units.

OP, I hope it all works out for you.

 

[XavierMace]

Please note that I've read that PowerWalker & BlueWalker units suffer from the same too cheap fans problem. But judging from my conversation with the service guy at the company that sold me the unit, a 3kVA APC unit would be just as loud as well. "It's just the way it is with online units above 1kVA." A shame really, because the case is clearly big enough for 4 quiet 12cm fans even.

The guy at the company is either dumb or doesn't use good UPS's. If the fans are constantly running on a modern APC UPS, you either have too much load on it or it's far too hot where ever you put the UPS. I'm running an SMX2200 with ERM at about 40% load, no noise unless it's doing a self test, or the power is out.

 

[Elixer]

An update (after receiving the unit)

The unit looks OK, function is fine. Had issues connecting it via USB, so I bought a RS232 to USB cable which worked. Possibly problem on my PC's side, but I don't really believe that.

The fans are murder though: loud as heck. I nicked them "tornadoes". They are rated .5A each - that's 6W just for the fan, 12W for both!!! They do spin slower when not under heavy load, but that doesn't really decrease noise much.

Wow, that is one nice looking UPS, how much did this sucker set you back?
Too bad about the fans, but, I agree with XavierMace, if the fans are at 100%, then something else is wrong, it shouldn't be doing that, unless it is in a hot room?
Is there any software that allows you to control the fan or other settings on the UPS unit?

 

[velis]

@Elixer The VFI-3000TC-LCD that I bought ( I really wanted that battery life though my load is typically <250W ) was 500€ + VAT. While that's definitely not a good price for Germany, it is for Slovenia. The only cheaper unit I could get would be a BlueWalker / PowerWalker, but I think even this Samurai is low-end enough. I must say buying this unit was an extremely educational experience for me, it almost made me build one myself.

The fans are not at 100%. They spin down immediately when the unit is booting, but they are still loud as hell. The software that came with the unit is actually pretty bad. It only reports current unit parameters and allows to trigger various self-tests. You can't even set output voltage, for example. Setting unit parameters remains an on-unit, 3-button, long-press / short-press excercise.

 

[velis]

Another update: received the resistors today. TL;DR: The unit is too smart:

I placed one resistor to one header, the new fans on another. beeping
I added the second resistor to the fans (tried both serial and parallel). beeping
So, the load (resistance) was definitely high enough on both headers: the unit even used the spinning fan sequence. But after 2 minutes it invariably decided to start beeping.

Maybe I should add one resistor to each of the new fans, but at this point I don't think I'm even going to try that

Edit: tried, failed. It's as if the unit has a built-in microphone and listens for enough noise

 

[Elixer]

Disconnect the speaker, and use the resistors again.

 

[vshah]

velis, is the one you got pure sine wave output? the cyberpower (i have the same 1500va one linked earlier) is, that was one of my main reasons for getting it.

 

[velis]

yes, it is advertised as pure sine. @Elixer sorry, can't: the unit reports battery bad to the PC when it sounds the alarm. The thought did cross my mind though as I'm really not a fan of loud things

 

[velis]

Thanks to suggestions in another thread, I managed to come to an acceptable solution. Thanks guys for all the help.

Edit: Initial observations about the UPS after start of actually using it:

• Unit is now quiet enough for me to tolerate it under my desk. It bothers me a little, but I'll survive until I move it across the wall.
  
• The fans seem to not be the only lowest-cost thing in the unit: If I place a bit of load on the unit (1KW, plugged in my laser printer), it starts making some funny noises, as if fan blades were touching a wire - or some high voltage sparks were flying around. Need to investigate, but no other side-effects are noticeable. Reported voltage stays rock solid during this.
  
• Reported UPS load is an extremely inaccurate affair. Doesn't even register below 150W, not sure how accurate it is after that. The PC app only reports percentage load (starts at 12%).
• Once I unplug power to the unit, the batery drops to 65 - 68% in a few minutes, then starts draining normally though with occasional 3% spikes.
• Temperature reported to PC differs from the one on the display. 25°C (PC) is definitely not right since that's room temperature any electronics definitely warms up at least a bit. I'm not confident about 50°C (unit) either as the air exhaust from the unit is cool. Another thing to investigate. Hopefully it won't start moaning about temps being too high as well. Had pretty much enough of it already and since I destroyed one of the fans, I'm now out of warranty.
• All this indicates that at least the sensors are of a super-low quality. Hopefully the other components are not, but I'm not an electrical engineer, so I can't really tell. In this aspect, I'm glad I didn't go for a PowerWalker / BlueWalker unit as those are even cheaper.

Bottom line: I think it will do the job, but I'm definitely moving it to another room. The trigger for buying it were thunderstorms during the last month and by now I'm sorry I did it. A simple surge protection socket plug would do what I really needed, do it tons cheaper and without all the hassle. The battery backup that will give me power for those two or three occurrences of power outage per year wasn't worth all the trouble and definitely wasn't worth the money spent.

 

[XavierMace]

http://superuser.com/questions/466642/why-shouldnt-i-attach-laser-printers-or-scanners-to-a-ups

 

[velis]

This is a 3kVA unit, laser + everything else takes less that 1kW. The SU question does not apply. Besides, it's just for testing.