Buying a new to me used car: 2004-05 A4 or 2004-05 TSX ?

[timxpx]

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Update: I bought a 2004 TSX on Saturday night and picked it up Sunday morning. Thanks again everyone for your input!
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Hi Garage!

I'm in the market for a $20k car, and I want something in the smaller engine sedan range with a comfortable interior.

I'd appreciate AT's comments on either cars reliability, maintenance costs, comfort, power, and handling. Or if I should consider another similar car, I'm open to suggestions.

The cars:
-2004-2005 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Sedan
-2004-2005 Acura TSX

Other notes:
-I'd like a stick shift
-Most of the models in my price range ($21k and cheaper) are in the 40-50k mile neighborhood.
-I like the posted gas mileage numbers for either car
-I'm coming off a 2007 Honda Civic Si, which sadly, got flooded out and totaled.
-the Civic had 35,000 miles after 16 months
-I live in NJ
-My daily commute is 28 miles each way, which about 26 miles of is highway
-I'm a cruise control at 75 and go with traffic kinda guy, but I would like something that could handle well for spirited driving through windy country roads.

AT's opinion on either of these cars is greatly trusted and appreciated, so hopefully you guys can help me out. Also if any owners of each could recommend which forum they use so I can read up on the common problems or praises for either car, that would be great.

I've yet to test drive either --- working on that this week. The things I'm at ends with now is that the A4 is slower with that turbo 1.8 @ 170bhp and AWD while the TSX is peppier at the high end of the band @ 205 bhp and FWD.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for your input.

-Tim

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Update 1: 7/30/2008 -- Drove a 2005 A4 1.8T w/ the Ultrasport pacakge today, see my post below.

Also -- I'm planning on driving a Mazdaspeed 6 Grand Touring on Friday, since it's in the same price range. I know I'll enjoy the pep but we'll see how I'm sold on the comfort.

And even if I haven't singled you out, I really appreciate everyone's input on this thread.

 

[CadESin]

Take everything I say with a grain of salt, but.

My first word of warning is that the 1.8T can be very good or very bad. Some last forever, and others, like the one in my 2003 GTI just simply fell apart.

I have driven both of the cars you are looking at and handing and drive wise this is what i can say.

Audi in my mind is a great car to drive, however I have never liked the feel you get from the Quattro system, theres something so deafeating about the anoying understeer on dry pavement, that is however countered by the amazing grip when the road is wet, or covered in snow. Quattro A4's eat up the snow up here in VT during the winter. I really would recomend staying away from the stick shift, its not a great transmission and has a very rubber feel to it. The linkage, at least in my friends 2004, was a bit lose. The automatic however is much better, but its an automatic and as a car guy I can't recomend it without crying myself to sleep.

As for the Acura, first its made by Honda so the motor will last forever, it will cost a good amount less to keep running then a A4, and at least up here in VT, you will stand out a bit more, theres at least 10 A4's for each TSX. Handing wise TSX's are quite amazing, the 6 speed stick shift is one of the best I have ever driven, and as much as I hate the feel of a FWD car, Acura does an amazing job makeing you come so close to forgetting that the TSX is FWD. Suspension is a bit hard and bouncy, but thats cool these days it seems. (this is based on the massive number of bouncing GTI's I find myself behind driving to work).

As for the other stuff that matters in a car, the Acura is, at least in the ones I have been in, much better equiped. The Seats are better and the TSX is just a great place to be, but it does lack that amazing fit and finish Audi has. The Audi is a good looking car, but its a bit old looking, theres very little that has changed in allmost 10 years. The TSX on the other hand is a bit more modern looking, and has that AsiaEuro look, (its more or less the Honda Acord that is sold in Europe).

My end all advise, get the TSX, you get a great car that will last and last. Its fast, very fast, handles well, and overall will cost you a lot less over it's lifetime. However I stress NEVER buy a car without driving it. Do a car-fax and get a pre buy check done by a dealer, it may cost you a bit now, but can save you thousands down the line.

Where I am comeing from. I drive a 1997 M3 and concider myself a bit of a car nut, and think a car should be a full package. And Yes I know my spelling sucks.

 

[KDKPSJ]

I'd suggest TSX as well. A4 is an ok car, but TSX is better overall. Power, handling, options, maintenance, reliability, etc.

Since you already drove Ci for 35k miles, you should know the charateristic of i-VTEC (5k~redline is where it should be). People who drove European cars or Toyota/Lexus have hard time to get used to this character, but I don't think you are one of them.

 

[halik]

Audi won't be winning on the reliability or cost of maintenance front, but it's much more of a premium car. The interior is much better than the TSX and the modding potential is no contest. Also if you get snow, A4 quattro is the way to do it.


In any case, look for the the 6speed A4 if you're going with audi, it was an option in 2005.

 

[Arkaign]

I'd beg to differ on the interior being much better. Acura interiors on TSX/TL and above are quite good.

Modwise, Audi turbo is hands down a better base, but the 1.8T is one of the worst to start from on the Audi side. Also check the class action regarding sludging issues with that motor.

TBH, it looks like you've got $15-$17k to spend ..

Should be able to find a very low miles 2003 330i, 225HP RWD, and it's a definite step up from either. The 3 series is still a small car, but the way it's balanced is far superior to the A4 or TSX, imho. It's also a bit classier. The motor, the M54B30, is also a legend, winning top 10 motors in the world from Ward's, with forged connecting rods, and a fully cast one-piece crank.

http://imotorlist.com/index.php?a=2&b=563 .. just one example.

You owe it to yourself to go out and drive each one. Happy hunting!

 

[ViviTheMage]

mmmmm, I was in the same neighborhood as you!

I picked up an 05.5 A4 2.0T 6 speed quattro with 30k on it...got it from the dealership @ 21k after TTL, etc....came with a 100k/5 year extended warranty for being certified used.

mmmmmmmm, I love it. I would not have gotten anything different...except the same car, cheaper. hehe

Sadly, i had an 01 jetta 1.8T that had problem after problem, if it wasnt the shitty mark4 interior, it was the turbo going out, clutch life ending, oil build up, etc, etc.

That 1.8T engine is REALLY hit and miss...I had another 1.8T before that car and it was GREAT, no repairs for 25k+ miles...

I love the QUATTRO, I cannot wait for the winter to roll around so I can be cruising by everyone, hehehehehe.

EDIT : As for the itnerior on my B7 audi, its sex....I love the solidness to it, I wouldn't asked for anything more. Plus the computers pretty neat (comming from not having one).

If I were you, id shoot for a B7 audi (05.5+ year), not the older B6 series.

 

[KDKPSJ]

I never thought Audi's interior is good (Well, 2009 A4 got a little bit better). But I always thought TSX has one of the best interior among any available cars. If you like German-style interior, you might like Audi's as well, but I don't like simple outlook of it.

For snowing in NJ, you might not need the power of Quattro. Maybe becuase I survived RWD 325i with summer performance tire last winter. (Well, I had to, since it's my only car) With TSX being FWD, you should be ok with fine winter/all-season tire.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
I'd beg to differ on the interior being much better. Acura interiors on TSX/TL and above are quite good.

Modwise, Audi turbo is hands down a better base, but the 1.8T is one of the worst to start from on the Audi side. Also check the class action regarding sludging issues with that motor.

TBH, it looks like you've got $15-$17k to spend ..

Should be able to find a very low miles 2003 330i, 225HP RWD, and it's a definite step up from either. The 3 series is still a small car, but the way it's balanced is far superior to the A4 or TSX, imho. It's also a bit classier. The motor, the M54B30, is also a legend, winning top 10 motors in the world from Ward's, with forged connecting rods, and a fully cast one-piece crank.

http://imotorlist.com/index.php?a=2&b=563 .. just one example.

You owe it to yourself to go out and drive each one. Happy hunting!

TSX is the euro accord, barely a premium car to begin with. Every single review of the B6 A4 I've read praised the interior. I haven't heard of the sludging issue after the B5 model and even there it wasn't particularly common... 1.8T is pretty awesome platform with a HUGE user base. If 1.8T is the worst from audi, what the hell is better?

Seconded the on the 330i though, My brother has an E46 coupe and that thing is far more sporty than any audi I've been in (ok except for the R8, that thing was nutty... despity the shitty Rtronic gearbox). Spring for the sport package/sport seats and you'e all set.

 

[timxpx]

Thanks for your posts guys -- it's looking like each car has it's trade offs and really I need to get out and drive them.

@cadESin - Your post was very insightful, thanks. Our winters in NJ aren't that bad, but still an issue when it comes to daily driving. Coming off another Honda, I'm trying not to be too biased towards the TSX. My brother actually owns one, but in an auto/sport shifter. If the gearbox feels anything like my Si, I know it'll be hard to let go. But like you said, I'm going to test drive, test drive, test drive.

Also, regarding your experience with a 1.8T motor -- I wish there would be warning signs I could pick up while test driving, but I doubt that's the case =/


@everydae - Yeah, I'm definitely still in that mindset where a car should be extremely happy way way up in the RPMs. If the TSX handles anything like the Si, then I'd be plenty happy with it. Comfort will be another thing I'd have to decide on when I see it. As will the difference between a peppy i-VTEC and a small 4 cylinder turbo.

@halik - Sadly if Audi didn't have that reputation, the A4 would probably be out of my price range. But yeah, I'd definitely get the 6 speed in either car.

@Arkaign, you're gonna make my head explode by posting that link! I'm actually going to call that guy and include him in my round of test drives if CarFax checks out! Ahhh!

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I can't wait to actually drive either of these so I can start making decisions!

 

[onza]

TSX - because long term costs will be lower than the A4.

 

[krunchykrome]

Used Audi or Used Acura? Well, the simple question is how important is reliability to you?

Go with the Acura. My fiancee has a 2004 TSX. It comfortable and fun to drive. I think it has 70K miles on it now, and she's never had a problem.

 

[timxpx]

@ViviTheMage - I've just been having a hard time finding an 05.5 priced right, otherwise I'd definitely look at one of those.

@halik - I hear you about the interior -- I guess it's something I'll have to see and judge which fits my tastes. But you're right-- I should start lumping E46 3-series into the mix.

 

[ViviTheMage]

One warning sign is , if at idle..the tac keeps moving, fluctuating at idle (after its warmed up) and it moves 50-100 rpms that is bad....could be oil build up, or some air being lost in the secondary air....It'd be nice if you could check the pancake pan that goes towards the inter cooler to see if there is a lot of oil build up. The dream test would be to pull the turbo out and see how much play is in it, or how much oil is gone and in the secondary air lines.

another could be if when you drive it a bit harder, upwards to the 5-6k RPM range, you feel it losing power at some point, surging I think they call it.

some of these were my symptoms of oil/sludge build up in my 1.8T.

 

[LS8]

I like the TSX myself. It's a great car. Not a "performance" car but still a great car.

 

[evident]

tsx is a great car and will be ALOT cheaper to own

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
The motor, the M54B30, is also a legend, winning top 10 motors in the world from Ward's, with forged connecting rods, and a fully cast one-piece crank.

Cast crank isn't something that is noteworthy

 

[T2urtle]

there was a local deal for a 04 blue TSX auto with 60k for 14k at a nissan dealer. i was a little iffy but it was a great price i waited a day because i myself wanted a manual as well but i said for 14k and if i can get it for 14k OTD its more then worth it. but it was sold.

i have friends that own a 04 tsx and a 03 a4 1.8T quatto

both cars are decent. i love the audi interior a lot more. heated rear seats is a nice pointless feature. both cars feel just as fast as my 98 nissan maxima. the tsx is a nice solid car weak point is the 4 banger, if they gave that car a v6 it would be great. both cars are feature loaded in many ways. the audi was used with 50k and its been 10k and 8 months.. flawless car. TSX was used with 50k as well CPO, but 8k miles and 5 months and flawless car as well.

both cars are 2 diffrent type of power car. both great cars. TSX for a little more MPG

 

[Dman877]

I've had an 04 TSX since it was new, it's at about 55k now. I love the car but if I was buying now, I'd go for an 03 or 04 330ci in that sort of purply-blue metalic color. But, that's probably just a case of the grass is greener.

As for the TSX, the tranny is sweet. There's no other word for it. It's six speeds are pretty close (some will argue about the first-to-second spacing) which is nice because you get to shift as much as you want to. The trade-off is a rather low six gear that doesn't do as well as it could on the freeway. Never-the-less, if my driving mix is 50/50 highway city (it's usually mostly city) I can get 30 - 31 mpg. That's with a few trips to the redline too. I can't resist at tollbooths. For a NA four-banger, the engine really sounds nice. I've driven a lot of 4-cyl thrashers in my day and you dread high rpm because the engine sounds like it's going to rattle itself to pieces. The TSX motor has a real nice raspy edge to it.

One thing I'm a little dissappointed about is the way they implemented vtec. The motor redlines at 7k (sometimes it'll let me hit 7.4ish) and the timing doesn't change until 6k. That gives you just that tiny power peak and you only get it for a split second. There's a reflash from Hondata I'm considering that drops the timing change to 5000 rpm. It's supposed to cut 0-60 times by about a half second because when you shift, you never have to leave the advanced timing cam position. For 600 bucks it's really hard for me to resist, especially now that I'm out of warranty...

Anyway, the interior is perfect. It would be nice to have had some mp3 functionality but I added that with an adapter so no big deal. The seats are great, I have plenty of room (6 footer). It handles well, and even in the snow (I'm in New Hampshire) I haven't had any problems using summer tires.

It's had a few recalls for stupid stuff, wiring harness guard in the trunk, something with the head lights I can't remember. Other than that, I had a sensor go in the passenger seat (part of the airbag system) but it was replaced under warranty. Unfortunately, the dealership here sucks and they ripped the seat cover so I had to wait for a week while they ordered another one. They stuck me with a Mazda3 rental for the duration, it was auto and smelled like an ash tray so I avoided driving it as much as possible.

 

[timxpx]

Update:

Just drove an '05 A4 1.8T with the Ultrasport package in silver. The car is pretty on the outside, extremely comfortable on the inside, has separate climate controls for the driver and passenger, Bose stereo, Ultrasport body kit, upgraded/sportier suspension and 18" wheels.

Felt really stable, really comfortable, and didn't have any of those telltale signs that ViviTheMage mentioned (thanks!).

My only complaint so far, apart from the mileage being at the 59k range, was that I took it to redline in 2nd gear and it just felt slow. I'm not sure if it's just because it doesn't have the same aural response as my Si did, since I was moving faster than traffic, but it just didn't feel fast to me. I totally get that it's not meant to, I just had a different idea of it in my head. The engine's small and moves the car plenty fine for cruising, but really lacks the take off speed.

I didn't fall in love with it at first, but I must admit, it was very comfortable to drive/cruise around in. The shifter is a bit clunky, but it really does let you know you're in gear. Throws were a little on the long side, but I'm still coming off the short throw in the Civic. The clutch felt like it went a mile and a half to get slammed from being in to the floor, but that again, is coming off the Civic.

I wailed on a pothole to see how it would take it and it felt like nothing, whereas it would definitely be something that would have made me cry in the Honda.

The salesman was so laid back and wasn't trying to make a sale, which feels really good when you're trying to figure out the car for yourself.

My next test drive will be an '05 TSX 6-speed tomorrow, followed by am '06 Mazdaspeed 6, which another friend who drives one recommended I look at.

Originally posted by: T2urtle
both cars are 2 diffrent type of power car. both great cars. TSX for a little more MPG

Yeah, I can't wait to compare the feel of the TSX!

Originally posted by: Dman877
One thing I'm a little dissappointed about is the way they implemented vtec. The motor redlines at 7k (sometimes it'll let me hit 7.4ish) and the timing doesn't change until 6k. That gives you just that tiny power peak and you only get it for a split second. There's a reflash from Hondata I'm considering that drops the timing change to 5000 rpm. It's supposed to cut 0-60 times by about a half second because when you shift, you never have to leave the advanced timing cam position. For 600 bucks it's really hard for me to resist, especially now that I'm out of warranty...

That's something that's a surprise to me. I was under the impression that the TSX would drop back into lift when you up-shift from redline. My favorite part about the Civic was that if you redlined a gear and shifted, you'd be back in the power band in the next gear. I believe the valve timing changed at 6100rpm, hit max power at 7800rpm, and redlined at 8100-8300. So shifting at anything above 7800 would drop it right back down at 6100 and you wouldn't feel that VTEC kick a second time, since you'd be in it already. The fact that the TSX isn't the same (adjusted for the lower revving) is a big turnoff, but I guess I can gauge how that really feels when I drive it. I just really thought the K-series motors would be more similar.

 

[Kelvrick]

If you're looking at an 04/05 audi quattro, why aren't you looking at the 06 legacy gt sedans?

 

[melijak]

LegacyGT is perfect if you want little luxury, performance and all wheel drive. Brand new loaded without nav will run you $26K and will be as reliable as the TSX but way more fun to drive.

 

[Kelvrick]

then he can join legacygt.com forums too!

 

[timxpx]

I ended up with a 2004 TSX with a 6-speed manual in Meteor Silver Metallic. It's got 45k miles, new tires, and was just detailed. Thanks again to everyone for your input!



I couldn't find any good candidates for manual Legacy GTs in my price range and local (though the limited looked really nice), and I didn't even test drive the MS6 in the end because I think it was a little much for what I needed, plus i think the TSX was a lot easier to talk the price down on.

Either way, I love how it rides, it's plenty comfortable, it's certified, and I have peace of mind (and can stop working from home).

Anyone belong to any good TSX forums ?

 

[HopJokey]

Originally posted by: timxpx
I ended up with a 2004 TSX with a 6-speed manual in Meteor Silver Metallic. It's got 45k miles, new tires, and was just detailed. Thanks again to everyone for your input!



I couldn't find any good candidates for manual Legacy GTs in my price range and local (though the limited looked really nice), and I didn't even test drive the MS6 in the end because I think it was a little much for what I needed, plus i think the TSX was a lot easier to talk the price down on.

Either way, I love how it rides, it's plenty comfortable, it's certified, and I have peace of mind (and can stop working from home).

Anyone belong to any good TSX forums ?

Congrats! How much did you get it for?

Also check out this forum for TSX owners: http://tsx.acurazine.com

 

[mitaiwan82]

I test drove a mazdaspeed6 a few days ago...the clutch doesn't have a very linear feel, but the car picks up speed with extreme ease once the turbo kicks in. I think you'll enjoy the 6MT in the TSX a lot more. Good luck!