Buying a new computer

[ChrisinTO]

Hi there... I've been researching for the past little while on what componets to buy for my new rig and would really appreaciate your input/recommendations. First off, I'm not a huge gamer and will mostly use the system for editing DV video, encoding MPEG-2, etc. Secondly, I'd like to have some overclocking potential (I think?) although I've not yet ventured into this world. That being said, I've narrowed down some various componets and here's what I'm left with:

CPU
Choice 1: P4 3.2C
Choice 2: P4 3.4C Northwood (512k L2 Cache)
* Even though my last couple systems have been AMD, I understand Intel is more suited to video editing/rendering/encoding, etc. *

Motherboard
Choice 1: DFI LANPARTY PRO875B i875P, w/audio/LAN/IDE RAID/SATA
Choice 2: ASUS P4C800E-DLX Intel 875P, 800MHz FSB, Dual DDR400
Choice 3: ABIT IC7-MAX3 Intel 875P, 800MHz FSB, Dual DDR400

Memory (I guess this probably depends on which CPU/Motherboard I get)
Choice 1: 1GB (2x512) Corsair PC4000 DDR500 (XMS4000PRO)
Choice 2: 1GB (2x512) Kingston 466MHz PC3700
Choice 3: 1GB (2x512) Corsair 400MHz PC3200

HD/Video
-I plan to purchase a 160GB 7200RPM SATA HD but also install my existing 160GB 7200RPM IDE HD
-I plan to use my existing RADEON 9600 256MB (PowerColor) -- Yeah, I know its not the best :disgust:

Lastly, I'm really unfamiliar with Cases & Cooling. I'd like something fairly quiet as my current setup is almost as loud as my old Commodore-64! What kind of power supply do I need (overclocking vs. non-overclocking). What about cooling. Should I use supplied heatsink or get another.

Thanks in advance-- Chris

 

[Slink3r]

If your going to do lots of video editing and encoding and such, have you considered getting a SCSI hard drive? You could shell out the money and get a SCSI controller card and 15k RPM SCSI drive.

I've heard from people previously that video editing should have a really fast hard drive to match up with the fast system.

 

[Zebo]

I understand Intel is more suited to video editing/rendering/encoding, etc
-----------
I don't understand why people think this.

Athlon 64 3200+ - 3400+ wins
----------------------
3DSMax 5.1 Architecture
3DSMax 5.1 Arch. Radiosity
Blender + YafRay
Lightwave Variations
Maya 5.01 - Maya Engine
Maya 5.01 - Mental Ray
LAME
DVix AVI
POV-Ray rendering


3.2-3.4C wins
----------------
Lightwave - Photon-Mapping
Lightwave - Skull_Head_Newest
Lightwave Raytrace
DviX Mpeg


Cinebench 2003 is split depending what you're doing. And since the The A64 dominates gaming, all science apps, and compiling to me it's and easy choice that's why they are so damn expensive.

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=65000308
http://www.hardocp.com/articleprint.html?article_id=626
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/athlonxp-m-2500/index.x?pg=10

 

[Gigaah]

Like Slink3r said a faster hard disk may be good for you. Even a Raptor or two would be good, scsi controllers and disks are expensive.

As for Cases, Antec makes some good ones. "Silent" cases like this one http://www.xoxide.com/lianlipc6070.html are a bit on the expensive side.

I think if you want something quiet a Zalman CPU fan such as this
http://www.xoxide.com/zacncpuco1.html
Are known for being very quiet, usually cpu fans generate more noice than your average case fan.

Quiet case fans you can get for not too much like panaflowL or other quiet fans in the 20db range or even under. If you can do 120mm case fans instead you can get good air flow and be quiet at the same time.
I got 4 PanafloL fans in my case (2 in the back, one in the side and one on the top) and the inside of my case stays pretty cool and is very quiet.

Can't say for OCing if that is enough cooling, you never really know untill you try.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

CPU: For encoding/video editing, get the fastest proc you can afford. Nothing is too fast when you're encoding a few gigs of raw video.

Motherboard: I know a few people who own the Abit IC7, I hear really good things about it *except* for its onboard sound, which is pretty flaky depending on your luck of the draw with the board. Get a good soundcard to back it up if you go this road, if you're working with media then its a good invesment anyway.

Memory: Kingston HyperX or Corsair XMS. Use dual-channel. Get as much memory as you can afford while still getting fastest proc possible. 1 GB is minimal.

HD: Because you will be working with raw video, the files will be many gigs in size... too much to load into memory all at once. Thus, video editors read in the raw video on the fly from the HD. This is why media creators invest in fast HDs, which most of us really don't have a practical use or need for. I highly recommend WD Raptors in a RAID array, which rivals any SCSI drive setup. Use your IDE drives to store data and work files when you're not actively using them.

Video: The Radeon 9600 should be enough.

Cases: Look around at Chieftec, CoolerMaster, Antec, and Lian-Li (my favorite cases, and also some of the best constructed ones). Pick something that suits your needs.

Cooling:

This is a more complicated topic than you might think, as overclockers argue back and forth over which is the best way to go. The general rules of thumb for case fans are:

1) At least one fan in the front of the case, and at least one fan in the back. The fan in front is especially important since it will pull cool air over your HDs, preserving the life of your drives and protecting your data. Make one fan intake and one fan exhaust.
2) NEVER set all your fans to be intake/exhaust, this can reduce air flow to almost nothing. The fans are meant to pump air through your case steadily.
3) Two smaller fans will *usually* provide more airflow and produce less noise than a single, larger fan... if you use them right.

There are plenty of side debates about whether its better to use the back of your case for intake or exhaust, the effectiveness of blowholes/side fans, the usefulness of PCI bracket coolers, etc., etc.. If you stick to those three basic rules though, your case should run at a decent ambient temperature. Find good, quiet fans so your computer wont sound like a jet engine.

CPU fans and heatsinks come in too many varieties to give you a complete rundown here.... for heavy-duty CPUs and overclocking, I recommend either Swiftech or Zalman. If you're going to overclock, get a bigger, higher RPM CPU fan; if not, get a smaller CPU fan so you dont have to deal with the noise. Copper or aluminum-copper heatsinks tend to be the most effective.

Get a big power supply; a 3.4 Ghz P4 with 1 GB of RAM and two 7200 rpm drives will burn over 200 W on their own, and that doesn't include your vid card (probably another 40 watts), any PCI cards you have, your optical drives, or any other storage you may choose to add. Not to mention the extra heat you'll be burning off when/if you overclock. I recommend a quality power supply of at least 400 watts. Antec and Enermax are my personal favorites.

I can't really give a comprehensive primer to overclocking here, as countless websites and articles have been dedicated to it. Suffice it to say, overclocking is a long process, you void your warranty doing it, the speed benefits you get from it are relatively marginal to the effort you'll be putting in, and there is always the possibility you will fry some expensive hardware if you aren't careful. However, there will be benefits, and depending on what you're doing those benefits may be substantial enough to make overclocking worth it. Not to mention, its always fun to have the fastest computer on the block. ;-)

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: ChrisinTO
Memory (I guess this probably depends on which CPU/Motherboard I get)
Choice 1: 1GB (2x512) Corsair PC4000 DDR500 (XMS4000PRO)
Choice 2: 1GB (2x512) Kingston 466MHz PC3700
Choice 3: 1GB (2x512) Corsair 400MHz PC3200

...

Lastly, I'm really unfamiliar with Cases & Cooling. I'd like something fairly quiet as my current setup is almost as loud as my old Commodore-64! What kind of power supply do I need (overclocking vs. non-overclocking). What about cooling. Should I use supplied heatsink or get another.

Your RAM choices are a little confusing. If you want the fastest memory, you want CL2. The options you have are 512MB Corsair XMS PC3200/PC3500, 512MB Kingston HyperX PC3200, and OCZ Enhanced Latency PC3200.

Your current system is almost as loud as your C64? Is that a joke? C64's were totally silent. They had no fans. The only noise would be loading from the floppy.

Anyway, if you want something quiet and you want to overclock a little, I'd say get Zalman fans and an Enermax Noisetaker PSU.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-118-108
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-118-206
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-445

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I understand Intel is more suited to video editing/rendering/encoding, etc
-----------
I don't understand why people think this.

Athlon 64 3200+ - 3400+ wins
----------------------
3DSMax 5.1 Architecture
3DSMax 5.1 Arch. Radiosity
Blender + YafRay
Lightwave Variations
Maya 5.01 - Maya Engine
Maya 5.01 - Mental Ray
LAME
DVix AVI
POV-Ray rendering


3.2-3.4C wins
----------------
Lightwave - Photon-Mapping
Lightwave - Skull_Head_Newest
Lightwave Raytrace
DviX Mpeg


Cinebench 2003 is split depending what you're doing. And since the The A64 dominates gaming, all science apps, and compiling to me it's and easy choice that's why they are so damn expensive.

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=65000308
http://www.hardocp.com/articleprint.html?article_id=626
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/athlonxp-m-2500/index.x?pg=10

Thanks Zebo, I had seen that, but I have almost given up trying to educate people here, as they never seem to listen.......

If you want some advice on AMD, I will reply, as I have no Intel knowledge that is usefull.

 

[sisooktom]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I understand Intel is more suited to video editing/rendering/encoding, etc
-----------
I don't understand why people think this.

How about because that's the prevailing wisdom on all the Tech sites? True or not, I don't know and don't really care so don't tell me to look at the benchmarks. But if you go by what people who supposedly know say, Intel is best at multimedia.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: sisooktom
True or not, I don't know and don't really care so don't tell me to look at the benchmarks.

Yes! Yes! Revel in your lack of knowledge! Embrace it! Ignorance is bliss!

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: sisooktom

Originally posted by: Zebo
I understand Intel is more suited to video editing/rendering/encoding, etc
-----------
I don't understand why people think this.

How about because that's the prevailing wisdom on all the Tech sites? True or not, I don't know and don't really care so don't tell me to look at the benchmarks. But if you go by what people who supposedly know say, Intel is best at multimedia.

It's unfortunate you only read sites that do Lightwave and mpeg encoding which favor the intel processors. But then a prudent intel user selects those applications for his encoding and 3d purposes. A A-64 user has a wider swath to choose from where his chip rigns superior. I'll leave that up to to the users to decide, as it depends greatly on the application(s) one uses the most, but intel simply does not domiate like AMD does at gaming and FPU apps. The choice is definity not clear cut nor do I think the "prevailing wisdom" is all that wise. Anyway are you sure this prevailing wisdom comes from review sites or rather internet forums?

 

[ChrisinTO]

Thanks for all the suggestions..

I think I'll pass on the SCSI drives as they're so expensive... I'll definately look into the raptors though.

Is it worth the extra $ for the 3.4C vs. the 3.2C? I'm going to do some more reading on the ABIT board; any comments on the other two boards? Thanks again.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: ChrisinTO
Thanks for all the suggestions..

I think I'll pass on the SCSI drives as they're so expensive... I'll definately look into the raptors though.

Is it worth the extra $ for the 3.4C vs. the 3.2C? I'm going to do some more reading on the ABIT board; any comments on the other two boards? Thanks again.

I read an article a long time ago (right after Canterwood's release) that put Abit and ASus firmly in the lead in the preformance race against DFI and a few other mobo vendors. Not to mention, that DFI 'LAN party' board is quite possibly the ugliest thing ive ever seen. ASus mobos are high-preformance, but also are notorious for poor heatsink/capacitor positioning that gets in the way of larger CPU heatsinks. Consider the ASus in your research, but make sure to take EVERYTHING into consideration, and look up issues people have had in the past with each board.

As for the value of 3.2 Ghz P4 vs 3.4 Ghz P4 CPUs, consider that the last 200 Mhz of clock speed of the 3.4 is costing you an extra $200, whereas the jump from 3.0 to 3.2 is more like $50. Best to stick with 3.2, i think.... the architecture is the same, the speed difference is very slight, and the money to move up to the next level is quite substantial. Not to mention, if you're really itching for the speed, a good heatsink and some high quality fans can be acquired for less than $100, setting you up for a strong overclock.

 

[sisooktom]

Originally posted by: Zebo
It's unfortunate you only read sites that do Lightwave and mpeg encoding which favor the intel processors. But then a prudent intel user selects those applications for his encoding and 3d purposes. A A-64 user has a wider swath to choose from where his chip rigns superior. I'll leave that up to to the users to decide, as it depends greatly on the application(s) one uses the most, but intel simply does not domiate like AMD does at gaming and FPU apps. The choice is definity not clear cut nor do I think the "prevailing wisdom" is all that wise. Anyway are you sure this prevailing wisdom comes from review sites or rather internet forums?

FYI, I run an Athlon 64 3000+. I simply don't encode that much, and yes, when I do my A64 performs admiribly. I never said the prevailing wisdom was correct, only that it was exactly that - prevailing. And I don't frequent too many forums and God knows there aren't too many Intel fans here, but who can blame them, I wouldn't want to get flamed constantly either.

 

[sisooktom]

Originally posted by: Tostada

Originally posted by: sisooktom
True or not, I don't know and don't really care so don't tell me to look at the benchmarks.

Yes! Yes! Revel in your lack of knowledge! Embrace it! Ignorance is bliss!

Yes, I freely admit to not giving a crap about benchmarks that compare the processor I do have to one I don't in an application I don't use.

 

[WTT0001]

Skipping down to the last question on your list, I would recommend the Antec Sonata as your case/PS, It is quiet, decent amount of cooling and comes with a Antec Truepower 380 Power Supply

Good Luck and have fun,

WTT