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Buying a new computer for both gaming and programming, requesting help

G

Girospeck

Member
I will be buying a new PC in the near future. I want to be able to play the most up-to-date games as well as program in C++. I will be programming both mods for games such as UT2003 and Doom3. I also plan to create my own 3d games, starting with one similar to the Civilizations series. I have looking into several processors, video cards, etc. and have come up with the build below. I won?t have any salvageable parts from another PC so everything you see below is everything I will have (except keyboard/mouse). So if I am missing something, please let me know.

Basically I want to know if this PC will be powerful yet economical. I was hoping to stay below the $2000 price tag but have obviously gone way over. First I want to know if the parts I pick will work for what I am using them for. I don?t need a state-of-the-art system for bragging rights, just a system that will get the job done for a couple of years, before needing upgrades. I also want to know if there is any way I can reduce the price of this system?

Thanks, I will appreciate any help given.


Case (liquid cool):
Swiftech Qpower FS020-H2O-C ($388.74)

Power Supply:
Thermaltake Xaser Silent Purepower? 480W with PFC ($76)

Motherboard:
Gigabyte GA-7DPXDW+, AMD 760 MPX chipset ATX Server Board ($200)
Or
Iwill DPL533 ($385)
Or
MSI K8D MASTER-F Dual Opteron Server Board ($453)

Memory:
Kingmax PC-3200 512 DDR (x2) ($146)

Processor:
Xeon 2.4GHz (x2) ($404)
Or
AMD Opteron 244 ($296)

Video Card:
ATI FireGL 8800 128MB AGP ($226)

CD/DVD Drive:
Artec DVDROM 16x ($32)

Floppy Drive:
1.44MB Floppy Drive ($15)

Hard Drive:
Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8m (x2) ($197.80)

Monitor:
Viewsonic G71f+B 17? ($190)

Headset/mic:
Plantronics head sets .audio 90 ($25)

Software:
MS XP Pro OEM ($139.90)
MS Office OEM ($185.90)

Price (using AMD Opteron and MSI K8D Master):
$2570.54
 
Do any Operton boards even have an AGP slot? IF you are going to do heavy programming I say wait untill Doom 3 and Halflife 2 (both are coming around the same timeframe, right?) which isn't that far away. If you wait then and then pick up hardware to satisfy what those games desire you will be in a perfect programming position because games for the next few years will run on those engines.

That and the price of hardware (not to mention getting an AGP slot on the Operton boards...but by then an AthlonXP maybe what you are looking for) will definitely drop to a level where you can be a lot more "comfortable" in.


Normally its a "Go go go" but I figure that we are coming up on a BUNCH of new technologies and two huge game engines so in this situation it might be wise to wait just a little...and you said you want the PC to last a while...no?
 
If you don't need bragging rights, or a top end state of the art system, why are you choosing to get dual xeons, and a water cooled case? Get a decent case, like an Antec 1080AMG with a 430 Watt PS. That will shave $350 off your price, plus you get a quality 430W PS.

Why do you want dual xeon's or opterons? The opterons might be fast, but the motherboard you selected for them doesn't have an AGP slot for your FireGL card (we'll get to that later). If you want dual processors, the xeon's will work, but you could also go dual Athlon for less money. A fast single processor system would probably be fine. You coudl get a 3-3.2Ghz pentium 4 c for the price of one of those xeons. You coudl also get a high end 875p motherboard which would work just as well as anything you have picked. This would save you at least another $200 at the bare minimum. Going single processor would save even more.

Get a gig of Corsair pc3500 ram. Lots of headroom for the future, and if you don't overclock you can run it at great speed timings. Those motherboards you selected probably require registered or ecc ram which yours isn't. You would probably want better stuff anyways if you're shelling out all that money. Corsair XMS TwinX or just two sticks of pc3500 would be fine.

Are you going to be doing high level 3d modeling on your machine? I'm sure you'll have to do some, but you don't need a firegl card. Especially if you want to play games, taht card is dx 8.1, not 9. Spend a little more and get a radeon 9800 pro 128meg, or wait for the Geforce FX 5900, your choice. Everything else looks fine.

 
You're going to spend twice as much on a graphics card as you will on a monitor ? We'd hope that one outlives the other, so put the money where it belongs.

I'd skip the Xeon line (which tends to have little upgradeability - they normally just release a new server product) and just get a 875/865 based motherboard with a new C processor now and plug in a prescott cpu when they come out. The goal is to learn and have the ability to do this stuff, not have a machine that can do this stuff effortlessly. If it takes a little longer, so what, just read the manuals while you compile. Liquid cooling is interesting, but not for the timid or for people who want to upgrade... air cooling is so much more modular. I'd focus on larger size fans and a good rheobus to quiet your workstation down.

If you take some of the suggestions we're giving, you may be able to afford a nice 19" LCD.
 
Originally posted by: ChefJoe
You're going to spend twice as much on a graphics card as you will on a monitor ? We'd hope that one outlives the other, so put the money where it belongs.

If you take some of the suggestions we're giving, you may be able to afford a nice 19" LCD.
Click to expand...

I can't agree more on the first part there. Both are equally important.

And you'll thank yourself for the 19" LCD. Trust me.
 
first off, I'd like to thank you all for your help.

After reading all you posts I changed to a:
P4 2.8GHz HT processor (Saves $25)
ASUS P4P800 for Intel Pentium 4 / Celeron Processors, 800Mhz FSB Deluxe (Saves $300)

You also suggested I change my video card to a Geforce FX 5900 or a Radeon 9800. That jumps my price right back up there. Do you think it would be possible to coast on a weaker card (maybe a FX 5200) until a price drop?

The case you mentioned, does it come wiany time th fans/power supply? It would save $250. Do you think it would last long? I don't plan to upgrade my case soon.

And, thanks agian for the help, everyone.
 
Originally posted by: GaryShandling
You say youve gone way over $2000? why not go for an alienware then? Youll be happy no?
Click to expand...

Alienware was the first site i considered when I decided to get a new PC, if i were to get the same parts from them, it would run me and extra $400. That $400 i dont have to spend. Unless you know some magical way to get the same parts for less on Alienware?
 
Originally posted by: Girospeck
Originally posted by: GaryShandling
You say youve gone way over $2000? why not go for an alienware then? Youll be happy no?
Click to expand...

Alienware was the first site i considered when I decided to get a new PC, if i were to get the same parts from them, it would run me and extra $400. That $400 i dont have to spend. Unless you know some magical way to get the same parts for less on Alienware?
Click to expand...

Yeah but, your paying the $400 for the: labor, warranty, tech support, unique case, free upgrade of future parts, very efficient airflow, big power supply, very neat wire organisation, superior optimisation for peak performance, free t shirt hehe, and er... a 12 month subscription to a games mag. You can relax knowing that if anything goes wrong its not you having to worry about it. For $400 its worth it, might aswell go all or nothing.
 
Originally posted by: Girospeck
I will be buying a new PC in the near future. I want to be able to play the most up-to-date games as well as program in C++. I will be programming both mods for games such as UT2003 and Doom3. I also plan to create my own 3d games, starting with one similar to the Civilizations series. I have looking into several processors, video cards, etc. and have come up with the build below. I won?t have any salvageable parts from another PC so everything you see below is everything I will have (except keyboard/mouse). So if I am missing something, please let me know.
Click to expand...

Basically I want to know if this PC will be powerful yet economical. I was hoping to stay below the $2000 price tag but have obviously gone way over. First I want to know if the parts I pick will work for what I am using them for. I don?t need a state-of-the-art system for bragging rights, just a system that will get the job done for a couple of years, before needing upgrades. I also want to know if there is any way I can reduce the price of this system?
Click to expand...

IMO even $2000 is too much to spend for a workstation to program and game on. I'm a full time programmer. My tip is this: CPU, and to some extent, RAM, are all that matters. Disk I/O isn't all that important because lets face it, how many libraries and source do you link? Not a whole large amount so the disk access issue is VERY minimal and you would never need more than Western Digital SE series for that. Processor speed is important for compilation but, unless your building a 500,000 line project all at once (which is dumb in its own right each time you want to test/debug) an AMD 2500+ Barton is SUPER FAST. I have one. Visual C++ .Net and C# .Net FLY. Making GCC under nix? Yeah its fast too heh. For what you want to do on it, an average antec1080amg+asus nforce2+athlon 2500+ barton+1 or 2 gigs of crucial ECC DDR is all you need. For C++ you don't need a fast video card. But since you want to game lets toss in a Radeon9800 Pro.

That is one kick@ss system and far more than enough to do C++ on. Like I said... unless you plan on regularly recompiling gentoo you will have far more than enough cpu speed.
You know counter-strike mod for halflife? Gooseman wrote it on a Celeron 400.
 
best computer 4 ya--

strait up from www.cyberpowerinc.com--- they will configure for you just check it out u can try config urself with this kinda cash range i configured a beauty for ya---

CAS: Aluminum BLUE TurboGamer 10-Bay Soho Server SX1040 Case 420 Watt Power [+99]
CASUPGRADE: Sound Activated Neon Light Installed for Case with standard "See Through Window" [ +10]
CD: (BLUE)16X DVD-ROM [+40]
CDRW: (BLUE) CD-RW 52X24X52 [+53]
CPU: [800 FSB]Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor @ 3.0GHZ CPU [+479] [REQUIRE 875/865PE MB]
FAN: INTEL CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK + 2 EXTRA 3-COLOR LED CASE FANS [+19]
FLOPPY: [BLUE]1.44 MB FLOPPY DRIVE [+19]
HDD: Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM ATA 100 8MB Special Editon [+99]
HDD2: Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM ATA 100 8MB Special Editon [+99]
KEYBOARD: [BLUE] PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET CONTROL KEYBOARD [+12]
MEMORY: 1024 MB PC3200 DDR 400 MEMORY [REQUIRES DDR 400 MB] [+196]
MEMORYUPGRADE: From Standard Memory to CORSAIR High Performance Memory W/ Heat Spreader [+39]
MODEM: PCI 56K V.90 FAX MODEM W/ VOICE [+ 12]
MOTHERBOARD: *[DDR400-800MHz FSB]ABIT IC7 I875PE 800MHz FSB DUAL DDR 8X AGP [+145]
MOUSE: MICROSOFT OPTICAL INTELLIMOUSE MOUSE USB [+25]
NETWORK: PCI 32 BIT 10/100 NETWORK CARD [+ 15]
OS: WINDOWS XP PROFESSIONAL EDITION [+135]
RAID: RAID-0 [DATA STRIPING]; WITH 2X HARD DRIVES ... [NO CHARGE]
RUSH: NO; SHIP OUT IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS
SERVICE: 3-Year STANDARD WARRANTY PLUS ONE-YEAR ONSITE SERVICE
SOFT2: Microsoft® Office® XP SBE [+169]
SOUND: Creative Labs SB LIVE VALUE 5.1 [+30]
SPEAKERS: 480WATT SUBWOOFER STEREO SPEAKERS [SK-102-102] [+10]
Subtotal1: (+1911.00)
Subtotal2: 1911.00
TEMP: [BLUE] THERMAL TEMPERATURE LCD DISPLAY WITH 3X FAN CONTROLLER [+19]
VIDEO: nVidia GeForce-FX 5600 256MB DDR W/ TV OUT & DVI [+187]



this has a sweet case, nice video card, fastest processor availible, best memory availible 2 80 gig WD hdd....wut more else could u want? like i said go to website to customize this is just 1 example....then u can get a gr8 monitor flat crt 19" for like 200 too but i didint inclulde that....muhc better than that system u made for 2500...xcept for the video card but if u gots the cash like i said this site is customizable just upgrade that baby and if u dont want a light in the case or a window u can take that out like i said ALL customizable
 
Thank you very much DWW, i also though my system was underspec, thats refreshing to hear. I'll start considering downgrading some parts.
 
Originally posted by: niwi7
best computer 4 ya--

strait up from www.cyberpowerinc.com--- they will configure for you just check it out u can try config urself with this kinda cash range i configured a beauty for ya---

CAS: Aluminum BLUE TurboGamer 10-Bay Soho Server SX1040 Case 420 Watt Power [+99]
CASUPGRADE: Sound Activated Neon Light Installed for Case with standard "See Through Window" [ +10]
CD: (BLUE)16X DVD-ROM [+40]
CDRW: (BLUE) CD-RW 52X24X52 [+53]
CPU: [800 FSB]Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor @ 3.0GHZ CPU [+479] [REQUIRE 875/865PE MB]
FAN: INTEL CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK + 2 EXTRA 3-COLOR LED CASE FANS [+19]
FLOPPY: [BLUE]1.44 MB FLOPPY DRIVE [+19]
HDD: Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM ATA 100 8MB Special Editon [+99]
HDD2: Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM ATA 100 8MB Special Editon [+99]
KEYBOARD: [BLUE] PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET CONTROL KEYBOARD [+12]
MEMORY: 1024 MB PC3200 DDR 400 MEMORY [REQUIRES DDR 400 MB] [+196]
MEMORYUPGRADE: From Standard Memory to CORSAIR High Performance Memory W/ Heat Spreader [+39]
MODEM: PCI 56K V.90 FAX MODEM W/ VOICE [+ 12]
MOTHERBOARD: *[DDR400-800MHz FSB]ABIT IC7 I875PE 800MHz FSB DUAL DDR 8X AGP [+145]
MOUSE: MICROSOFT OPTICAL INTELLIMOUSE MOUSE USB [+25]
NETWORK: PCI 32 BIT 10/100 NETWORK CARD [+ 15]
OS: WINDOWS XP PROFESSIONAL EDITION [+135]
RAID: RAID-0 [DATA STRIPING]; WITH 2X HARD DRIVES ... [NO CHARGE]
RUSH: NO; SHIP OUT IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS
SERVICE: 3-Year STANDARD WARRANTY PLUS ONE-YEAR ONSITE SERVICE
SOFT2: Microsoft® Office® XP SBE [+169]
SOUND: Creative Labs SB LIVE VALUE 5.1 [+30]
SPEAKERS: 480WATT SUBWOOFER STEREO SPEAKERS [SK-102-102] [+10]
Subtotal1: (+1911.00)
Subtotal2: 1911.00
TEMP: [BLUE] THERMAL TEMPERATURE LCD DISPLAY WITH 3X FAN CONTROLLER [+19]
VIDEO: nVidia GeForce-FX 5600 256MB DDR W/ TV OUT & DVI [+187]



this has a sweet case, nice video card, fastest processor availible, best memory availible 2 80 gig WD hdd....wut more else could u want? like i said go to website to customize this is just 1 example....then u can get a gr8 monitor flat crt 19" for like 200 too but i didint inclulde that....muhc better than that system u made for 2500...xcept for the video card but if u gots the cash like i said this site is customizable just upgrade that baby and if u dont want a light in the case or a window u can take that out like i said ALL customizable
Click to expand...

wow, I dont know how you got that, for the price. I'll make sure to look into it. Thanks.

 
The TruePower 430 is a very good PSU that comes with the Plus1080 case. The Plus1080 also comes with three sleeve-bearing fans, and has mounts for two more 80mm fans. You can see a photo spread of it here: Newegg photos These cases have good airflow characteristics overall, although the upper section tends to get a bit warm. You can flip the power supply if you want to have it pull air from the top: instructions

Most people have uses for a CD-RW or DVD-RW these days, but I don't see one in your layout. Might be a good thing to have... the Mitsumi 52x24x52 is nice, around $50 including software, and comes in black (goes nice with the metallic-grey Antec case).

For what you're planning to do, I would suggest this:

Antec Plus1080 with its TruePower 430 PSU
Asus A7N8X-Deluxe motherboard (onboard dual LAN, onboard high-performance 5.1 audio)
AthlonXP 2500+, retail
3 x 512Mb Corsair XMS3200C2 for 1.5Gb total
Black Mitsumi DVD-ROM drive
Black Mitsumi 52x24x52 CD-RW drive
Black Mitsumi floppy drive
TWO 80Gb Maxtor 8Mb-cache drives
Built-by-ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
TWO 19" Viewsonic E90f+SB PerfectFlat monitors

and add speakers or headphones as you like. That comes to about $1850 shipped, with quite a bit of RAM and a top-end video card that can handle the next-generation games reasonably well (we hope). The 2500+ is one-quarter the price of the top-end CPUs, leaving you more budget for the top-end gaming video card that you'll be needing for the gaming. Dual 19" monitors should be very beneficial for doing your programming and so forth.

Down the road, you could upgrade to an AthlonXP 3200+ for a little more oomph in the CPU department, once the price is down in the sub-$200 range.

edit: oops, forgot to list the hard drives in the mix. 😕

edit #2: I forgot to throw the Office and Windows in there, so tack that on and you're around $2200.
 
http://www.abspc.com/app/config.asp?mono=1543&view=1
Why buy from Alienware? I agree with DWW's advice, but thought i'd like to point that out to you if you really didn't want to worry about building a workstation PC. That is a PC from ABS Computer, and with an Athlon XP 2800+ system. They optimize their systems just like Alienware but they cost a lot less. The one right there comes set up as a RAID array, too. If you add a 17" Samsung 172T LCD, 1Gb of Corsair DDR400 XMS (default is 512) memory and change it to Win XP Pro, it is still only $2346, which is very good for a high-end workstation (just look at what is in there) and I have had two computers come from ABS for relatives and they were some very well-built PCs. I just thought you would want to know about their computers because they are VERY good at what they do and don't charge you through the nose for them.
 
heres my most recent build, taken mostly from your advice.

Case:
ANTEC Plus 1080AMG ($120)

Power Supply:
Antec Original TRUE 430W P4 Power Supply ($0)

Motherboard:
Asus A7N8X Deluxe Motherboard for AMD Athlon XP/Duron Processors ($130)

Memory:
Cosair PC-3200 512 DDR (3x) ($255)

Processor:
AMD ATHLON XP 2800 "Barton" 333 FSB (177)

Video Card:
ATI RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB DVI/TV 8X AGP ($388)

CD/DVD Drive:
MITSUMI 16X DVD ROM DM-2000TE-B BLACK ($36)

Floppy Drive:
MITSUMI D359M3 BLACK FDD 1.44MB 3.5INCH ($10)

Hard Drive:
MAXTOR 120GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # L01P120 ($165)

Monitor:
Viewsonic 19" CRT Monitor GS790 ($260)

Headset/mic:
Plantronics head sets .audio 90 ($25)

Software:
MS XP Pro OEM ($139.90)
MS Office OEM ($185.90)

Price:
$1900


Also DWW and Ardan, a appreciate you help, but i really do want to build my own. Even if it cost a little more now it will open to the door to easy and cheap upgrades in the future. I would also better know own system if i built it ground up. Thanks for the help, though.
 
Ok your new one looks much better...have a couple minor adjustments from my opionion.

Processor:
AMD ATHLON XP 2800 "Barton" 333 FSB (177)
Click to expand...

Barton 2500+ is best price to performance for $97. Why pay $80 more for such a small tradeoff in my opinion. Save $80 here and build your new dream machine with a 2500+.

Hard Drive:
MAXTOR 120GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # L01P120 ($165)
Click to expand...

Programming, projects, tools, operating system, games, whatnot is not worthy of 120 gigs. Go for something smaller, FASTER, quieter, cooler and cheaper. Western Digital's WD800JB 80GB 7200 RPM 8meg cache drive. I have one. It rules. $85. Saved $80 there plus $80 from before.

MS Office OEM ($185.90)
Click to expand...

I'm all for MS office because I have a licensed copy myself but I do recommend looking at the free alternatives like openoffice and staroffice. They are nearly fully compatible or at least to a large extent with MS Word files. Perhaps you can save $185 here? I'm not sure its up to you so I'll just pretend you will keep it.

Monitor:
Viewsonic 19" CRT Monitor GS790 ($260)
Click to expand...

Ok you saved $160 on the drive and CPU above. Now lets get you something that your eyes will be able to stand long programming and game sessions. You can now spend $420 on a monitor and get something that will keep your eyes healthy. Perhaps a 19" LCD if you want to put a few more bucks in. Or a Sony G420S is even a better choice than the viewsonic IMO. Sure that viewsonic can, spec-wise, do 1600x1200, but have you ever seen it in person? EUCCH! Some coworkers have them at their desks. G420S run 1600x1200 @ 85 Hz nicely. THIS IS MY OPINION so please no one get mad.

Software:
MS XP Pro OEM ($139.90)
Click to expand...
XP Home has damn near the same features as Pro just a couple less for networking aspect. You can maybe consider going with home. Don't get turned off by the name "Home" hehe.

Out of general curiosity which compiler do you use? Visual C++ .Net?
 
i see what you mean with the processor and hard drive and will change that. The home addition of XP is only $40 cheaper, is it worth the money saved? I plan to keep M$ office. I will also make sure to look into another monitor, but just because i have money left over, doesn't mean i should spend it.

I will use visual C++ 6.0
 
Hrm - well if you are going to be playing games then a 19inch Flatpanel won't be fast enough. Perhaps a pair of 17inch 16ms panels? Or 1 flatpanel to code on to relax your eyes while you have a CRT for gaming? That way you could get a flatpanel with a much slower response time and not have to worry about ghosting.

And I'd agree with the reccomendation on OPENOFFICE.ORG - I use it when i'm loaded up into Linux and for what I've tried it read/saves as word documents perfectly 🙂 So doing that may save you quite a bit of cash

Also do you have a floppy laying around or no? It seems a waste to spend 10 bucks on a floppy if you can just take one laying around and toss it in because chances are you will not be using it all that often anyway
 
Giro, you have a nice setup there. I have used XP Pro and Home...they're both okay but I would prefer to have XP Pro because I have used some features that aren't in XP Home Edition. Well, I didn't have much time to offer you what I thought were good changes, so I gave you that URL so you could see what they put in their high-end machines (I like them better than Alienware, personally) and make any additions 🙂. Hope I could help.

Edit: The latest P4's are very nice, but if you're doing programming I would go with the Athlon because I use those for C++ and they are very nice. I would use a P4 for multimedia production/video editing or the ripping of DVDs but not for programming and games. You can save a lot of money by just going with a 2500-2800+ Barton since the difference won't be noticable. I would also like to mention to you that my father works at Lockheed-Martin and they recently got a 2800+ Barton system for building programs and drivers and they did because it is more than half the cost of the Dual P4 2.4Ghz Xeons and it is doing the work in nearly half the time. I would like to mention that I am not bashing P4's, and I would buy one myself if I had money, just stating why I think the Barton you chose is perfectly fine.
 
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