Buying 6870 or 6850, performance and price question

[Davste]

I have a 1920x1080 22" monitor, a 500W PSU, 2GB of RAM and an AMD dual core, 2.2Ghz per core. It's not that good, I know, but I can't upgrade any of that - for now I'm just going to upgrade my graphics card.


I have the following options:

XFX ATI Radeon 1024MB HD6850 - €155.67
Powercolor 1024MB ATI Radeon HD6850 PCS+ - €164.39
Powercolor 1024MB ATI RAdeon HD6870 - €175.93
XFX ATI Radeon 1024MB HD6870 - €184.52


The last one is a bit over the budget. Which one of these would you chose, money-wise, performance-wise and support-wise? They all have a 2 year warranty. Also remember that I will play games under a 1920x1080 resolution, preferably on highest.

Links for graphics cards:

http://www.simarksupplies.com/Product.aspx/Search/6870
http://www.simarksupplies.com/Product.aspx/Search/6850

Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Arkadrel]

Powercolours HD6850 PSC+:

Comes with a slight overclock, @820mhz core and 1100mhz memory.
VS Normal cards run at 775/1000.

The cooling solution on it is decent, TPU has it around:
Noise: 29 dB idle, and 31 dB load.
Cooling: ~46 d. celcius idle and ~76 d. celcius load.

Its a very quiet card... granted some stay cooler than this card, but think its amoung the most quiet of the 6850's with a fan on them.

They have a fanless version of a 6850 too, that might be even better if you like things quiet.
(something ive grown more and more found of over time)

 

[toyota]

AMD 2.2 dual core? is that a 2.2 Athlon 64 X2? if so then do not even waste your money on a new gpu until that is upgraded. that cpu is not even going to provide a playable framerate in many games at settings a 6850/6870 can run. and if you are lucky enough for the game to be playable it would still be a massively silly bottleneck.

2gb of ram will also mean hitching in a couple of newer games. and what is the exact model of psu because some 500 watt units do not deserve that rating at all?

 

[MangoX]

AMD 2.2 dual core? is that a 2.2 Athlon 64 X2? if so then do not even waste your money on a new gpu until that is upgraded. that cpu is not even going to provide a playable framerate in many games at settings a 6850/6870 can run.

2gb of ram will also mean hitching in a couple of newer games. and what is the exact model of psu because some 500 watt units do not deserve that rating at all.

This. Don't do it bro. Upgrade the CPU/mobo/ram first.

 

[Davste]

AMD 2.2 dual core? is that a 2.2 Athlon 64 X2? if so then do not even waste your money on a new gpu until that is upgraded. that cpu is not even going to provide a playable framerate in many games at settings a 6850/6870 can run. and if you are lucky enough for the game to be playable it would still be a massively silly bottleneck.

2gb of ram will also mean hitching in a couple of newer games. and what is the exact model of psu because some 500 watt units do not deserve that rating at all?

It's an Amd 64 X2 4400+. My friend has a slightly better CPU (4600+ I think), 4GB RAM and a GTX 260. He can max out most games, including dragon age 2 and crysis 2, but he has a 1600x1200 resolution I think. For now, I'm sticking with my CPU.

I don't work yet, I'm a student and should be able to next year. My graphics card is faulty and I need to replace it anyway.

As for a PSU, I actually have two. The first one I really like, it's a fanless FL-420 Yessico. It's been working like a champ for 4 years, without a single noise and without any problems. It's 420W though.

The other is my spare, 500W ROHS ATX 500 power supply.

 

[Davste]

Powercolours HD6850 PSC+:

Comes with a slight overclock, @820mhz core and 1100mhz memory.
VS Normal cards run at 775/1000.

The cooling solution on it is decent, TPU has it around:
Noise: 29 dB idle, and 31 dB load.
Cooling: ~46 d. celcius idle and ~76 d. celcius load.

Its a very quiet card... granted some stay cooler than this card, but think its amoung the most quiet of the 6850's with a fan on them.

They have a fanless version of a 6850 too, that might be even better if you like things quiet.
(something ive grown more and more found of over time)

Sounds good
Is it a good deal over the 6870 though? I've seen alot of benchmarks, the 6870 seems to always give 15 fps more in intensive games. Then again, with my CPU, I don't know if it would get that far.

 

[toyota]

It's an Amd 64 X2 4400+. My friend has a slightly better CPU (4600+ I think), 4GB RAM and a GTX 260. He can max out most games, including dragon age 2 and crysis 2, but he has a 1600x1200 resolution I think. For now, I'm sticking with my CPU.

I don't work yet, I'm a student and should be able to next year. My graphics card is faulty and I need to replace it anyway.

As for a PSU, I actually have two. The first one I really like, it's a fanless FL-420 Yessico. It's been working like a champ for 4 years, without a single noise and without any problems. It's 420W though.

The other is my spare, 500W ROHS ATX 500 power supply.

just because your friend is wasting a great deal of what his gpu can do with a similar cpu does not mean you should do even worse. I bet in some games he can barely get much over 30-35 fps not to mention horrible minimum framerates. and in your case a 6850 with a 2.2 4400 X2 would probably not even get 50% utilized in many newer games.

anyway since you have to get a new gpu and will not be getting a new cpu until next year then you need to look at something cheaper. by the time you get a new cpu you would have accomplished nothing with a card faster than a 6770 in the meantime. even then your cpu is too slow in general just to play some games smoothly. in fact your cpu is below requirements to even play some newer games.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Dragon Age really gets a boost going from 2->4 cores.

 

[Davste]

just because your friend is wasting a great deal of what his gpu can do with a similar cpu does not mean you should do even worse. I bet in some games he can barely get much over 30-35 fps not to mention horrible minimum framerates. and in your case a 6850 with a 2.2 4400 X2 would probably not even get 50% utilized in many newer games.

anyway since you have to get a new gpu and will not be getting a new cpu until next year then you need to look at something cheaper. by the time you get a new cpu you would have accomplished nothing with a card faster than a 6770 in the meantime. even then your cpu is too slow in general just to play some games smoothly. in fact your cpu is below requirements to even play some newer games.

I might be getting a new CPU much sooner than next year. So I won't get a bad graphics card, because it would just be a plain waste to buy another one. I'm sure I'll never reach it's full potential for the time being.

Can we get back to the initial question please? For the money, which is the best deal? Forget the CPU for the time being. Is it worth an extra 20 euros to go from a 6850 to a 6870?

 

[GaiaHunter]

Generally 6850 have more OC headroom than the 6870, so when both are pushed to max OC the difference is quite small. Max OC will most likely require a voltage bump though.

This is a good article on 6850 http://www.anandtech.com/show/4002/amd-radeon-hd-6850-overclocking-roundup-asus-xfx-msi.

Note that the MSI 6850 in this review has the same clocks of the Poweecolor 6850 PCS+.

In the end the performance difference isn't too big, but neither is the price difference.

The following are OCs with voltage.

If you don't like to OC, especially when having to bump voltage, and the games you play are shader heavy, for €20 it might be worth to get a 6870.

 

[Termie]

just because your friend is wasting a great deal of what his gpu can do with a similar cpu does not mean you should do even worse. I bet in some games he can barely get much over 30-35 fps not to mention horrible minimum framerates. and in your case a 6850 with a 2.2 4400 X2 would probably not even get 50% utilized in many newer games.

anyway since you have to get a new gpu and will not be getting a new cpu until next year then you need to look at something cheaper. by the time you get a new cpu you would have accomplished nothing with a card faster than a 6770 in the meantime. even then your cpu is too slow in general just to play some games smoothly. in fact your cpu is below requirements to even play some newer games.

I might be getting a new CPU much sooner than next year. So I won't get a bad graphics card, because it would just be a plain waste to buy another one. I'm sure I'll never reach it's full potential for the time being.

Can we get back to the initial question please? For the money, which is the best deal? Forget the CPU for the time being. Is it worth an extra 20 euros to go from a 6850 to a 6870?

Davste - don't discount Toyota's advice. You're new here, and you've come for help. That's good.

So here are some facts:

Crysis 2 CPU analysis: http://www.techspot.com/review/379-crysis-2-performance/page8.html
Dragon Age 2 CPU analysis: http://www.techspot.com/review/374-dragon-age-2-performance-test/page8.html

Your CPU is about half as fast as the slowest CPU tested in these articles, i.e., it's nearly unplayable in Crysis, and it might be ok for DA2.

Multiple games CPU analysis: http://techreport.com/articles.x/20873/2

Your CPU is about 20% faster than the dual-core Pentium EE 840 tested in this article, i.e., it's nearly unplayable.

Just save up for a full-sytem upgrade. It's always nice to get a boost from a single-component upgrade, but in this case, you just aren't going to get anything out of that 6850. You're on a CPU from 2005...relying on it to feed a GPU from 2010 just isn't realistic.

As to your question, the cards are so similar in performance that you should just go for the most performance for the money, and that's likely the Powercolor 6850.

 

[Davste]

Davste - don't discount Toyota's advice. You're new here, and you've come for help. That's good.

So here are some facts:

Crysis 2 CPU analysis: http://www.techspot.com/review/379-crysis-2-performance/page8.html
Dragon Age 2 CPU analysis: http://www.techspot.com/review/374-dragon-age-2-performance-test/page8.html

Your CPU is about half as fast as the slowest CPU tested in these articles, i.e., it's nearly unplayable in Crysis, and it might be ok for DA2.

Multiple games CPU analysis: http://techreport.com/articles.x/20873/2

Your CPU is about 20% faster than the dual-core Pentium EE 840 tested in this article, i.e., it's nearly unplayable.

Just save up for a full-sytem upgrade. It's always nice to get a boost from a single-component upgrade, but in this case, you just aren't going to get anything out of that 6850. You're on a CPU from 2005...relying on it to feed a GPU from 2010 just isn't realistic.

As to your question, the cards are so similar in performance that you should just go for the most performance for the money, and that's likely the Powercolor 6850.

But why? I'm going to be getting this graphics card anyway sometime soon, when I upgrade my CPU. Why wait? At least I could play something, better than waiting without a graphics card. I don't want to get a cheap one, it's just a waste of money because it will be thrown away soon after I get it!

I understand that it's a nicer feeling and more rewarding to get a full-system upgrade, but I need to replace my old one anyway

I agree that it's going to prove unplayable for most games, but what are my options? I have a 175 euro budget.

I intend to get this after I get my graphics card:
Core i7 Sandy Bridge 3.4Ghz
By the time I get it, the price would go down hopefully quite a bit. The problem is, I then need to upgrade also my RAM and motherboard. All in all, it could easily cost a total of 300 - 450 euros.

 

[toyota]

well since have to get a card now and if you are sure you will be upgrading your platform very soon then go ahead. when you do upgrade the other stuff a 2500k is the better choice for gaming. no point in spending 100 bucks more on the 2600k since you will never see the difference.

 

[edplayer]

But why? I'm going to be getting this graphics card anyway sometime soon, when I upgrade my CPU. Why wait? At least I could play something, better than waiting without a graphics card. I don't want to get a cheap one, it's just a waste of money because it will be thrown away soon after I get it!

How long have you been using the 1920x1080 monitor? What games do you play on it and what videocard are you using right now?

I'd say get either the cheapest 6850 (XFX) or XFX 6870, I don't trust Powercolor


and yeah, get the 2500K not the 2600K

 

[Tripwir3]

OP - wait for a good deal on a CPU/mobo combo deal. I got my Phenom quad with a free MSI crossfire mobo from Fry's for about $120. Ram is dirt cheap nowadays. Try to score a 4870 or something used until you can get more money and buy a V.C.

That's what I would do.

 

[Davste]

How long have you been using the 1920x1080 monitor? What games do you play on it and what videocard are you using right now?

I'd say get either the cheapest 6850 (XFX) or XFX 6870, I don't trust Powercolor


and yeah, get the 2500K not the 2600K

Thanks for the suggestion I got the monitor last month. I'm really happy with it. I've been upgrading my parts one by one.
Right now I have a five - six year old NVidia 7800 GTX. Funny I could play most modern games with it. After I tried running crysis 2 it fried

 

[GaiaHunter]

I have a Powercolor 4850 PCS+, been overclocked for 3 years now and I like it very much. Their PCS series seems to be pretty decent.

 

[Termie]

Thanks for the suggestion I got the monitor last month. I'm really happy with it. I've been upgrading my parts one by one.
Right now I have a five - six year old NVidia 7800 GTX. Funny I could play most modern games with it. After I tried running crysis 2 it fried

In that case, by all means pick up a 6850/6870. Just know that while they'd theoretically be approximately 4x faster than your card, you'll probably only see 2x performance until you upgrade the CPU.

Also, I've changed my mind on which card to get. Those prices are so close that I'd get the Powercolor 6870. For about 6% more money, you get about 10% more performance. That's a good step up.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

I'd say get the XFX 6850. Put the rest of your money towards a new build. €20 now or in the future can get you some RAM.

 

[Davste]

In that case, by all means pick up a 6850/6870. Just know that while they'd theoretically be approximately 4x faster than your card, you'll probably only see 2x performance until you upgrade the CPU.

Also, I've changed my mind on which card to get. Those prices are so close that I'd get the Powercolor 6870. For about 6% more money, you get about 10% more performance. That's a good step up.

I think I'll go for a 6870. It's not that I will see any performance difference between the 6870 and the 6850 with my CPU as it is, but I think that when I upgrade, I will not regret it.


My only worry is if it will fit in my case
Another thing, can it run well on a 420W PSU? Or should I take out the 500W one? The thing is, the 500W one doesn't have an extra connector for my 30GB SSD
Hope I could run it on the old PSU.

With regards to more ram, I would need to shell out an extra 50 euros. My Mobo has 4 slots for RAM, split in 2 channels. I have 1GB + 1GB on the same channel.
So I would need to get a 2GB + 2GB stick of DDR2 RAM (my mobo can only take ddr2) AND DDR2 IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN DDR3 (at least where I live)!!
I don't think it's worth upgrading the ram for the time being. I'll install old XP again and live with that for now

 

[cusideabelincoln]

With regards to more ram, I would need to shell out an extra 50 euros. My Mobo has 4 slots for RAM, split in 2 channels. I have 1GB + 1GB on the same channel.
So I would need to get a 2GB + 2GB stick of DDR2 RAM (my mobo can only take ddr2) AND DDR2 IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN DDR3 (at least where I live)!!
I don't think it's worth upgrading the ram for the time being. I'll install old XP again and live with that for now

If this was in response to me, I was referring to putting 20 euros towards DDR3 RAM for your new system you will eventually build. I do think it would be a waste for you to buy more DDR2.

 

[Termie]

I think I'll go for a 6870. It's not that I will see any performance difference between the 6870 and the 6850 with my CPU as it is, but I think that when I upgrade, I will not regret it.


My only worry is if it will fit in my case
Another thing, can it run well on a 420W PSU? Or should I take out the 500W one? The thing is, the 500W one doesn't have an extra connector for my 30GB SSD
Hope I could run it on the old PSU.

The Powercolor 6870 is a reference design. It's just under 10 inches long.

As for the power supply, it looks like your unit is circa-2004. It likely doesn't have sufficient power on the 12v rail to support the 6870. I'm sure it doesn't have two PCIe power cables, which you'd need for the 6870, although the card may come with an adapter. The 6850 may work, but again, it would be cutting it close (you should give us the specs off the label of your PSU).

Honestly, I might consider just picking up a holdover card like an HD5670, which draws very little power, and would probably provide double the performance of your 7800GTX. There's one available at your store for 80 euros: http://www.simarksupplies.com/ShowProduct.aspx/Product/P13756-XFX-Radeon-HD5670-1024MB. Not a great deal, but your old system is sufficiently out-of-date that these new graphics cards really may not work.

 

[3DVagabond]

The 6870 is overall a better built card than the 6850 (If you stick with reference or better). Most (read: almost all) 6850 use PWM that are below reference standards (only 3phase instead of the 4phase that is the reference spec), and the ones who do use the full specs are generally as expensive as a 6870 anyway.

The only reason the 6850 has more O/C headroom is because it's clocked so low to begin with. Often the 6870 will run at higher clocks than the typical 6850, being a higher binned chip to start.

Most of the 6850 are shorter cards. This can be an advantage if you have a smaller case.

I'd get a 6870 for the difference in price.

 

[Davste]

I'll read off the label from my new 500W power supply for now, since I have to take apart my PC to read the old one:

ATX-500 500W

COLOR . . . . . . DC . . . . . . . . . MAX.OUTPUT
ORANGE . . . . . +3.3V DC . . . . .26A
RED . . . . . . . +5V DC . . . . . . .27A
YELLOW . . . . . +12V DC . . . . . 22A
BLUE . . . . . . .-12V DC . . . . . . 0.5A
PURPLE . . . . . .+5V SB . . . . . . 2.0A
GREEN . . . . . . PS-ON . . . . . . .REMOTE
BLACK . . . . . . COM . . . . . . . . RETURN
GREY . . . . . . . POK . . . . . . . . PG

 

[toyota]

that would barely qualify as a typical 350 watt psu so I can not believe they call that a 500 watt psu. 22 amps on the 12v is not really sufficient for a full system with a decent video card. plus that psu is likely made with inferior components to begin with. you are going to need a better power supply to reliably run your system.