Buy this used PC?

[Ennea]

I'm a gamer but have only ever used non-gaming laptops and a hand-me-down PS3. I was planning to build a gaming PC, then the mining craze took off. I have a disability and can only work minimal hours, so I need to be careful about what I spend my money on, but at the same time don't want to settle for another subpar experience if possible. I can buy this build for $700:

• Ryzen 5 1600
• Ballistix 2x4 GB 2400Mhz
• 2 x 850 Evo 500 SSD
• Silverstone 600W SFX PSU
• Fractal Design Node 202 Case
• EVGA NVIDIA GTX 980 Superclocked ACX 2.0
• Fatal1ty X370 Gaming-ITX/ac

I don't yet have a monitor or TV (currently using an old 1680x1050), so have to factor that into the cost. I'd prefer a PC (visuals, modding, tinkering, larger game library, etc.) but a PS4 Pro is also fine - I like the exclusives, and the money saved could be put toward a TV/monitor. I play mostly SP RPG-type games; no twitchy MP FPSs.

Concerns about this build: ~2-gen-old GPU, ~1-gen-old CPU, and only 8 GB of slowish RAM that will require spending an additional ~$200 to replace with 16 GB. Reviews of the PSU found poor-quality components and ripple at high ambients, which I expect to encounter. I'd want to replace this case with a better ventilated one, as my apartment usually isn't air conditioned in the summer.

So my options are: buy this PC; buy a PS4 Pro + 4K TV; or just be patient and game on the PS3 and laptop. Thank you!

 

[Harry_Wild]

Personally, I would save some more money and since Spring and Summer is around corner, there should be less buyers, prices will be coming down and what is popular now, will be lower hopefully lower especially when manufacturers are bring in new technology. I would buy a preassemble PC with nice warranty. 4K TV are nice too, like 40" top of the line models with low latency. Of course, it depends on how long you can wait. If feel antsy to buy stuff, get 4K monitor/TV now and if your graphic card can handle 4K even at 30 hertz, you have one of your desires satisfied. The urge to buy! LOL!

 

[Ennea]

I generally have little urge to buy .. partly due to low budget, partially because I just settle for crappy gaming quality. In this case, my non-gaming laptop will get too hot to run anything in the summer (even now I have to cool it with an ice pack to play Dragon's Dogma at 20 fps at 720p), and I only have 2-3 more games to play on the PS3. So I can do something other than gaming, or buy the PS4 or a PC. I wouldn't buy a TV unless I bought a PS4 Pro. And I don't know how long I'd have to wait for new GPUs and RAM to come down to reasonable prices again!

 

[DaveSimmons]

It sounds like you'd need to replace components (case, RAM, PSU) anyway, and it's also a weaker CPU. So for a PC you are probably better off saving up a bit more then building from scratch.

Maybe the cryptocoin bubble will have popped by then, or RAM prices will have dropped, or the cheaper intel chipsets for Coffee Lake will be out. With an intel build you could always use onboard graphics for awhile and catch up on some old games from GoG or low-spec indie games from Steam.

 

[Ennea]

Helpful perspectives, Dave -- thank you. How is the deal if I didn't replace the case/PSU? I'm not certain the thermals will be a problem, but I'd say 60/40 that they will be. The Node 202 is really not too well ventilated. Yes, re: the RAM, I suppose it'll last for the short- to medium-term, but when I put in 16 GB the current 8 GB is wasted.

I thought the CPU was relatively good, though almost now superseded by the next gen of Ryzens. What CPU would you be looking for in this general price range now, just so I can keep my eyes peeled?

 

[whm1974]

For a 6 core/12 thread CPU I would go for 16GB of RAM anyway.

 

[Ennea]

But 8 GB is usable for most current titles, isn't it? Still, it's an unwanted expense to have to toss the existing 8 GB when I do upgrade.

My main worry is that I'm not going to see a PC at this value for quite a while. I've been following Craigslist postings for months and this is the best deal I've seen in that time.

 

[DaveSimmons]

> I thought the CPU was relatively good, though almost now superseded by the next gen of Ryzens.

Are you planning to overclock? (Which might require a better cooler and less iffy PSU)

At stock speed, an intel 8400 is going to be a bit faster for gaming (even with Spectre/Meltdown fixes) thanks to the faster IPC and +400 MHz turbo speed (it's even faster than the 1600 overclocked to 4 GHz). Plus you get the intel graphics if you wait to buy a GPU. The main downside is you currently must pay extra for the motherboard since your only choice is the Z370 chipset.

That's not saying the Ryzen is a bad choice, it's good enough for all current games and GPUs, you'll possibly just lose a few FPS at 1080p (like 100 vs. 110). If you're buying a GPU anyway then the built-in graphics of the intel will never be used.

 

[Ennea]

I think I'd overclock when I felt like I could benefit from it. I've never had anything but a non-gaming laptop before so I don't know how to OC, undervolt, etc., but that's one of the reasons for getting a PC rather than a console (which I may still do given current prices). There isn't room in that case for the stock cooler -- the seller removed the shroud, apparently, in order to be able to use it. I'd have to use a different cooler to OC. As far as the PSU goes, I don't understand the link between it and OC'ing well enough, but it sounds like it matters and this PSU might be inadequate.

Dave, if you have time, could you address this question? Many thanks.

My main worry is that I'm not going to see a PC at this value for quite a while. I've been following Craigslist postings for months and this is the best deal I've seen in that time.

 

[daveybrat]

Please wait it out if you can. The Crytomining bubble could pop any day now and with the new second gen Ryzen's coming out soon it makes no sense to build right now.

If you can wait another 2-3 months you should have a lot more options.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I think I'd overclock when I felt like I could benefit from it. I've never had anything but a non-gaming laptop before so I don't know how to OC, undervolt, etc., but that's one of the reasons for getting a PC rather than a console (which I may still do given current prices). There isn't room in that case for the stock cooler -- the seller removed the shroud, apparently, in order to be able to use it. I'd have to use a different cooler to OC. As far as the PSU goes, I don't understand the link between it and OC'ing well enough, but it sounds like it matters and this PSU might be inadequate.

Dave, if you have time, could you address this question? Many thanks.

Overclocking a CPU can easily add 30 watts or more to the power draw.

Pros:
Parts value is decent if you look at prices for new: CPU = $190, 1 TB of SSDs = $250, 980 = ?$300?, RAM = $80, plus mobo, case, PSU.

Cons:
- Any warranty problems will be a pain, since the seller might not have receipts for you, and even if they do you might have to try to get seller to do the return (good luck with that)
- Any flaws or glitches (like a dying fan in the 980) might not be obvious until it's too late
- Does it include a legal copy of Windows 10, or some pirate key?
- PSU quality and case airflow might not support overclocking, though speed will be decent event without it
- RAM is 2x4 kit so you'll eventually want to replace it with 2x8
- PSU is not great
- Case is not ideal
- Ryzen refresh and cheaper intel Coffee Lake are both coming this year

I'd be wary of buying a used, custom-built PC from someone you don't know, where you have no idea if they will help you once they have your money.

It's an OK value, but it's really easy to build a PC these days. You just need a Phillips screwdriver and a couple of hours of work.

If you build it yourself it will probably cost more than $700, but you get to pick a set of good parts with full warranty, and a case that you like instead of settling for someone else's pick.

 

[whm1974]

Personally if I was going to build a rig using a SFF case, I would choose the Silverstone MILO 08 over the Node 202. However every system that I built are ATX systems.

 

[Ennea]

Pros:
Parts value is decent if you look at prices for new: CPU = $190, 1 TB of SSDs = $250, 980 = ?$300?, RAM = $80, plus mobo, case, PSU.

Cons:
- Any warranty problems will be a pain, since the seller might not have receipts for you, and even if they do you might have to try to get seller to do the return (good luck with that)
- Any flaws or glitches (like a dying fan in the 980) might not be obvious until it's too late
- Does it include a legal copy of Windows 10, or some pirate key?
- PSU quality and case airflow might not support overclocking, though speed will be decent event without it
- RAM is 2x4 kit so you'll eventually want to replace it with 2x8
- PSU is not great
- Case is not ideal
- Ryzen refresh and cheaper intel Coffee Lake are both coming this year

I'd be wary of buying a used, custom-built PC from someone you don't know, where you have no idea if they will help you once they have your money.

It's an OK value, but it's really easy to build a PC these days. You just need a Phillips screwdriver and a couple of hours of work.

The seller is a sysadmin at a major nearby university. Seems like a good guy. We'd be meeting at his office. He has all the boxes and receipts, and I think he'd do returns for me but I'd have to ask.
Good point about the dying fan or similar.
It's Enterprise Win 10 with an activation script. I assume he has access to this through work; I don't know about the legality.
I suppose even if the PSU and case end up being fine, I'll still have to replace the RAM eventually, and none of this gets past the fact that I'm buying already outdated components. But they are relatively inexpensive, and I might be able to sell them before buying something new (though selling the whole PC seems like it would be quite a hassle).

Please wait it out if you can. The Crytomining bubble could pop any day now and with the new second gen Ryzen's coming out soon it makes no sense to build right now.

If you can wait another 2-3 months you should have a lot more options.

I hear what you're saying, and thanks for the reply. I could wait a couple of months, definitely. My main worry is that the bubble won't pop anytime soon, and if prices stay high beyond this year, this may be the best value I'll get for some time. I suppose there's always the PS4 Pro, but that's a lot less fun for me than a PC.

Edit: Seller says all parts are still under warranty and he'd be glad to RMA anything that fails during the warranty period.

 

[DaveSimmons]

It's Enterprise Win 10 with an activation script. I assume he has access to this through work; I don't know about the legality.

It's not. That's a license for use by the university, not you. As long as he's an employee he can use it on his own PCs and no one will care, but:
- You are not an employee and this is not a university PC
- If the university changes its licensing plan the license could stop working
- If you ever need to re-activate because of hardware changes that might or might not work

It's up to you whether you want a legal copy of Windows, and this activation might work perfectly for the life of the PC.

 

[Ennea]

Thanks Dave. I sent out emails to a few friends and one has a sealed copy of Win10 bought from Amazon that he no longer needs, so this aspect of the build isn't an issue anymore.

 

[DaveSimmons]

If you don't have your heart set on a mini-ITX, there are good reasons to go with a micro-ATX or a smaller full-ATX system:

- It's much easier to cool it, and do so quietly
- Good full size PSUs are cheaper than good SFX, especially with sales and rebates
- You have a wider choice of motherboards, and they often have more ports and RAM slots
- Assembly is easier since it's a roomy case and many of them offer cable routing

We can help you pick a set of compatible parts, and you really do just need a screwdriver and some time.

 

[Ennea]

Thanks Dave. I love the ITX form factor, and it would be my preference, but when I was initially planning a build I was indeed thinking mATX. Cooling is important as I don't like to run the AC in my apartment in the summer. My concern is the cost of current components. For instance, the "Moderate Gaming Build" on pcpartpicker -- https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/9qJ7YJ/modest-gaming-build -- is $450 without a GPU / SSD/ HDD, so over $1000 with a 1060 6 GB and SSD/HDD. The PCmasterrace build -- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7ykNnH-- is $870 without an SSD. Both use only 8 GB of RAM.

I'm not sure of the relative value of these builds vs. the one I'm thinking about. If I stick with the current case + PSU this build seems to be a better value at the moment. If I upgrade those, that's an additional $100-150, then recoup whatever I can get from selling them. 16 GB of RAM would eventually be added to "my" build, compared to 8 GB for both of the above.

 

[Charlie22911]

Another option, grab a used i5 based Optiplex 7010 SFF with 8GB RAM from eBay and pick up a low profile 1050 or 1050ti if you can find one for a reasonable price.
Since they are all mostly office pulls they likely won’t have a hard drive. Make sure the hard drive cage/caddy is included.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Another option, grab a used i5 based Optiplex 7010 SFF with 8GB RAM from eBay and pick up a low profile 1050 or 1050ti if you can find one for a reasonable price.
Since they are all mostly office pulls they likely won’t have a hard drive. Make sure the hard drive cage/caddy is included.

The problem with that is it can never be more than a low-end PC since you can't drop in a 2060ti - 2080ti next year.

 

[Ennea]

I'm thinking of buying the system, also buying an AMD 2200g, putting it in the Nano 202, leaving the 8gb ram & one of the ssds, installing windows 10 trial and sell his for $350 as a nearly new HTPC system. This would yield a profit, which I'd then put toward a mATX build. Maybe:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Motherboard: MSI - B350M GAMING PRO Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Newegg Business)
Memory: Team - Vulcan 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($164.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.49 @ OutletPC)
Case: Cooler Master - MasterBox Lite 3.1 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($34.90 @ Newegg)
Total: $336.36
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-16 18:32 EDT-0400

This would transform the initial outlay of $700 into a better machine for $750-800. Does this seem like a good way to proceed, and give better value to the initial PC?

 

[DaveSimmons]

It's risky, since you might not be able to find a buyer at the price you want, the buyer might scam you with counterfeit cash or a faked money order (or a gun), or a part could die the day after you sell it.

 

[whm1974]

I would just build a new system. They last longer and can be upgraded.

 

[Ennea]

Hm. So selling systems is risky in general? But selling parts is OK?
whm, all of the parts in this system are new (I'd have the boxes and receipts w/ warrant info) except for the 980. I can ask how old/used that is. Regardless, I think I could prbably sell that and buy an open box 1060 or 580 at MicroCenter. I wouldn't imagine there's much risk there.

Edit: or I could just sell the PSU, case, and one SSD, thus recouping ~$180, and go from there. Still would be stuck with 8 GB RAM.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Hm. So selling systems is risky in general? But selling parts is OK?
whm, all of the parts in this system are new (I'd have the boxes and receipts w/ warrant info) except for the 980. I can ask how old/used that is. Regardless, I think I could prbably sell that and buy an open box 1060 or 580 at MicroCenter. I wouldn't imagine there's much risk there.

Selling anything carries risk. On both eBay and Craigslist there are many scammers cheating sellers.

Buying open-box at MicroCenter has a bit of risk too, since the previous owner might have spilled coffee on the card or ran it without proper cooling, or they might have opened the box, swapped out the 1060 for a beat up old AGP card and returned that instead.

You can save money, but it's more risky than buying new. Also, if you're near a MicroCenter pay attention to the Hot Deals subforum here. CPU + motherboard combos are a loss leader at MicroCenter and you can often get them much cheaper than anywhere else. The motherboard will probably be full-ATX not micro-ATX though.

 

[Ennea]

Thanks for the heads up about the Hot Deals subforum. I think mATX is the largest I can go, as I'll have to transport this thing between MA and CT fairly frequently.