Buy.com throws me a curve?

[Muse]

I'm on their mailing list and 12/26/2007 I got an email whose subject line included info on an offer for a Sandisk 2 GB Sansa m250 MP3 player/recorder with FM for ~$27, free shipping. Needing something like that I looked into it and ordered it. The listing said it was marked "refurbished" by Sandisk, but it was actually new factory overstock.

I ordered 5 hours after they sent the email but it was already OOS. Maybe it was the whole time, I don't know. Anyway, I was allowed to make the order and wait for it to become available and about 29 days later, I received the item (yesterday).

It was the unit, a cheap pair of earbuds and a ~10" USB cable, period. I downloaded and printed the manual and installed the Sansa firmware updater, which automatically updates the unit with new firmware when available. Apparently, that occurred.

I quickly discovered that the unit had an eccentricity -- when you turn it off, it forgets every setting you make on it, including all 20 FM presets and your custom EQ settings. Rats! I registered and posted in the Sandisk Forums and posted in their series m200 forum and was told that the m250 is not supposed to act the way mine is acting, and also that Buy.com should not be presenting Sandisk merchandise marked "refurbished" as new factory overstock.

I spent much of today dealing with Sandisk in an effort to RMA the unit, and at the end of the day (when they had looked at my proof of purchase, which clearly stated that it was marked "refurbished" by Sandisk, but it was actually new factory overstock) they said they don't honor warranty on refurbished merchandise and I have to deal with buy.com for redress.

Buy.com's RMA policy is that with defective items they will not credit, but only replace the item. I'm pessimistic that the item they will send me to replace the one I'm sending back (prepaid label, at least), will not have the same problems.

In readying the unit for return by UPS I decided to erase the directories and MP3 files I'd created in the flash memory. Although I could create those directories and write files to the memory yesterday (about 300 MB worth of files), this evening I'm finding that neither of my XP computers is able to see the player (doesn't show up now in Explorer). So, it will go back as is!

 

[Ika]

So you got a bum unit and Buy.com sucks. What's new?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Aflac
So you got a bum unit and Buy.com sucks. What's new?

Well, I'm not accustomed to either. First time I've had a problem with them, IIRC. I'm bugged right now, though. This stinks. Something like this I'd expect to work. It's got no moving parts, it's all electronics, memory, firmware. I presume it's got programming errors in it. That kind of thing doesn't happen much, at least in my experience with products that are mature. This thing's been on the market well over a year, probably over 2. I'm wondering if someone knew that a batch had problems and something shady happened. Maybe I'm being too suspicious.

 

[Narse]

PM sent.

 

[eplebnista]

Sounds par for the course for Buy.com's warranty policies.

 

[sutahz]

Dont tell them its defective. Tell them you changed your mind about what MP3 player you want and return it via that route. When you return something you don't have to buy a similar product from said company.

 

[M0R0NI]

Originally posted by: eplebnista
Sounds par for the course for Buy.com's warranty policies.

I am glad I have avoided Buy.com

 

[SearchMaster]

Just wait for the new one. I bought the same unit from Buy.com for my wife and she loves it. It's a great player for the money.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Narse
PM sent.

Thanks. Did you get my PM replies?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: sutahz
Dont tell them its defective. Tell them you changed your mind about what MP3 player you want and return it via that route. When you return something you don't have to buy a similar product from said company.

How does that work? Do they have a policy of accepting a return and crediting if you decide you don't want the product? What exactly is their policy?

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: sutahz
Dont tell them its defective. Tell them you changed your mind about what MP3 player you want and return it via that route. When you return something you don't have to buy a similar product from said company.

How does that work? Do they have a policy of accepting a return and crediting if you decide you don't want the product? What exactly is their policy?

The return policy allows you return for a refund for 14 days. Also, I had a defective drive in Sep '07 from Buy.com and I called and the refunded my money and had me ship back the drive. I then had to fax them the FedEx invoice and they then credited me the shipping also.

There are a few products that have a special return policy where they do not allow returns of bad units, you have to take another in return. I'm not sure what products or why, but it's listed when you purchase the product.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
Just wait for the new one. I bought the same unit from Buy.com for my wife and she loves it. It's a great player for the money.

I totally agree. I love the new one. I wrote an extensive mostly positive review of the Sandisk Sansa m250 at Amazon. Mine is the one with the title M250 alot for the money, dated February 15, 2008

I'll quote it here:

My previous MP3 players have all been iRivers, so I'm spoiled. The iRiver iMP-350's (I have two), are CD and CD-RW driven, and have a very extensive feature set that is obviously iterative and well thought out and is the result of several product cycles. I also have iRiver H120 and H140 harddrive player/recorders, and they are supported by Rockbox. Again, powerful very extensive feature sets for these products.

In comparison, the m250 is very simple, but it doesn't sound noticeably worse playing my MP3 files. 2 GB is about 3x more capacity than the iMP-350's have (my H120 and H140 have 30 GB and 40 GB HDs respectively) and the FM radio sensitivity appears to be significantly better than that in any of my other carry-along electronic devices, including those expensive iRivers.


Pros:

Graphic equalizer is a great feature, however it only works for files, not FM radio. It's 5 band and you can increment or decrement each band individually and save your settings when using the Custom option. I've not looked at the preset EQs. Knowing that I'm deficient above 3000 hz, I just boost the two highest ranges.

The AAA battery concept is terrific. I have AAA rechargables and will always have the power I need. I don't believe battery life is going to be any kind of issue with decent rechargable NiMH AAA's.

The FM radio reception is exceptional. The weight room in my gym is a basement and I've never been able to listen to any but the most powerful stations in there with any of my on-person portables. That rules out my favorite station, a 500 watter. I've brought my Sony WMF-FX465 cassette AM-FM walkman in there and all my iRiver devices and none of them got more than spotty reception of that station. Even my radio-dedicated Aiwa CR-LD101 is unable to get a clear signal in most places in that room. However, this m250 gets near perfect reception in nearly every location! I probably won't push my luck down there and will keep it in mono mode in the FM settings, but I'm floored that I can actually get decent FM in that room.

Volume is more than adequate even with my low efficiency Etymotics ER4S earbuds. I think the included earphones sound fine, and they actually fit quite well and I would use them in most places, however they don't have the sound-blocking ability provided by the Etymotics, and that's why I won't be using them in the weight room, on airplanes, etc.

The AB repeat is a very nice feature.

The m250's hold switch is another crucial feature, much appreciated. My iRiver devices all have this but the expensive Aiwa AM/FM receiver does not, and it's sorely missed.

I really like the ergonomics. People complain about the toylike aspects, but that doesn't bother me. It seems sturdy enough, so far. The flare at one end is perfect for knowing where you are in the dark. With very little experience I already am able to use all the functions in complete darkness as long as the backlight is set to at least the minimum non-zero setting, 3 seconds.


Cons:

The iRiver players support subdirectories as a way of organizing your music. You can elect to play the selections in a particular subdirectory, for example, or repeat a directory, a song, randomly play the contents of a directory, or the whole device. The m250 is far more primitive. I'm not yet in the habit of using MP3 tags for my files, but the m250 is going to force me to start using them. For me it would be easier to just keep things organized using directories.

The armband is something I probably won't use, or sparingly. It's necessary to remove the plastic cover in order to change the battery, and it's not easy to do so. I'll just keep the m250 in a pocket, when possible.

The player does remember where you were in a file if you turn it off and then turn it back on. However, if you change to FM radio and back again to file play mode (or to a different file) it forgets what file you were listening to and where. I play a lot of really long files (3 hours or more), so this is a minus.

I had a defective m250 before I got my present one. The first one had a version 4.x firmware, and the latest 4.x after installing the Sansa firmware updater. Since I often play MP3 files that are in excess of 3 hours, it's nice if I can fast forward at more than a snail's pace. The first m250 I had featured an accelerated fast forward when you kept it on for a while and I could navigate to the middle or end of the file rather quickly. The new player came with October 2007 2.2.5A firmware, and the updater will not upgrade it. Evidently players using version 2x firmware will not accept version 4x firmware, and probably vice versa. The player I have now will only fast forward at a very slow pace with no acceleration, and in this I am disappointed.

Evidently a firmware defect, the m250 I have (and the previous one) lacked the stopwatch feature (until I stumbled on a way to bring it out of hiding, see below).


Finally:

Here's a VERY helpful portion of a review I just spied at cnet (after enabling "Smart Menues" I DO have the stopwatch feature!):

"The user manual STINKS, I feel very bad for non-techie types. I'm guessing most people won't be able to use the unit to it's full capabilities. Check out "Advanced/Smart Menus", you use the left/right navigation to move around menu options (instead of having to keep hit menu & start all over from main menu, Smart Menus brings you back to your last place in options)."

Having turned on Smart Menus, the Stopwatch feature appeared in the top level menu. It remains there now whether Smart Menus is enabled or disabled. Obviously, the feature not appearing initially is a bug in the firmware. Smart Menus is totally undocumented in the manual. I wonder how many other features are undocumented or improperly documented.

If you happen to find a Sandisk device that's promoted as "refurbished," I suggest you give it a wide berth. Sandisk does not have a reburbished products program and if you find one, it's something set up outside of Sandisk's system and Sandisk will not honor the warranty. In the event that you have a defective device, you will have to deal with whoever you bought it from.

 

[Slick5150]

Not sure why you think buy.com won't give a refund (they will), but regardless, that's an outstanding price on that player so doing an exchange is to your benefit.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Slick5150
Not sure why you think buy.com won't give a refund (they will), but regardless, that's an outstanding price on that player so doing an exchange is to your benefit.

I think the thing is once you identify that the reason you're returning it is that it's defective, a refund is not on the table, only a replacement. I'm pleased with the way it's turned out, assuming the unit continues to function OK.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I have only purchased one item from buy.com and that was enough to make me never want to purchase anything from there again.