Bush's nuclear plan bombs

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
http://www.trivalleyherald.com...10669~2552825,00.html#
H-bomb designers and builders of the world's largest laser were awestruck Monday by a greater power -- the congressional appropriator.

In a fell swoop, a powerful Republican lawmaker led Senate and House Democrats in killing the Bush administration's requests for a nuclear bunker buster and new nuclear weapons, as well as cutting $25 million from the National Ignition Facility.

Under pressure from House and Senate leaders to deliver multiple appropriations bills before the weekend, Senate Energy and Water Appropriations chairman Pete Domenici, R-N.M., and other defenders of the administration's push for new and modified nuclear-weapons research yielded to a united front posed by House Energy and Water Appropriations chairman David Hobson, R-Ohio, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, and Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.

Together, the trio cut $27.5 million for the Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator, a modification of a high-yield nuclear bomb at Lawrence Livermore nuclear weapons lab and Sandia National Laboratories-California.

They also cut $9 million for an "advanced concepts" project to explore new weapons designs, replacing it with a project to make existing H-bombs more secure and more dependable in the face of aging, to be called the "reliable replacement warhead" program.

Arms-control advocates praised the move and Hobson for single-handedly blocking the administration's plans.

"I think it's fair to say he simply did not buy the administration's proposals for a new generation of weapons, did not see the need for such weapons and did not like their high costs," said Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Washington-based Arms Control Association.

It was a bold play by Hobson, who calls himself a "country lawyer from Springfield" and does little to disguise his contempt for a nuclear-weapons establishment that he calls bloated and unaccountable.

The complex and its weapons labs -- Livermore, Sandia and Los Alamos -- in particular "could be viewed as a jobs program for Ph.D.s, the ultimate white-collar welfare," he said in a speech last August.


Executives at the weapons labs and the U.S. Energy Department's weapons arm, the National Nuclear Security Administration, caught wind of the threatened cuts late last week, as their traditional allies in Congress warned of being unable to preserve the money.

The joint House-Senate report on the National Ignition Facility was less scathing than some in the past but still highly critical of last year's decision by Lawrence Livermore and federal weapons officials to put off a telltale fusion experiment until 2014. In the new budget, the penalty for that decision -- or rather leading Congress to build the $4.5 billion laser for a more optimistic experiment date -- was $25 million, or about 7.4 percent of the money requested for it this year.

Wary of angering Congress further, lab officials said the cut would delay the giant, 192-beam laser's completion, set for 2008, but that they would keep the project on track as much as possible.

"We'll deal with it," said lab spokesman Bob Hirschfeld. "We'll do whatever it takes to make it work."

About a dozen weapons scientists at Livermore and Sandia-California were getting ready for the first major experiment with the new bunker buster. While not yet a full prototype, they had designed a rugged, heavy new case for the bomb and shored up its nuclear explosives to survive a plunge through several meters of concrete or rock.

With a few months and more money, they expected to have a mockup of the bomb ready for shipment to Sandia's New Mexico test facility, inside Kirtland Air Force Base. There, Sandians fill bombs and warheads with electronic sensors, load them on a rocket-powered sled and smash them into water, foam blocks and concrete to see how they stand up to the punishment.

The test bomb is the product of hundreds of hours of computer simulations and scientists' time figuring out how to make a complicated weapon still work after such a crushing plummet into rock.

But Hobson and Democrats had argued that the finished weapon, which would require $485 million to develop into a manufacturable design, would never be used and could hurt U.S. interests in discouraging weapons programs in other nations.

"We are disappointed that Congress did not follow the administration's request in several areas," said NNSA spokesman Bryan Wilkes. "But we are just going to have to take a look at the numbers and assess what we're going to do down the line."

In case the agency or the White House is tempted to find money elsewhere to research new bomb designs, lawmakers wrote a special restriction: Federal officials may not "reprogram" more than $1 million to these or any other projects without prior approval from the House and Senate appropriations committees.
Good. What's the point of developing costly and unnecessary weapons programs?

I liked that line about "white-collar welfare". ;-)
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
[nelson] HA HA [/nelson]
 

Tylanner

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2004
5,481
2
81
But, but, I thought Bush was the King of America.....gosh, I guess we do have a house and a senate.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
damn this white collar welfare. we should fire them all! so that they'll have to find jobs elsewhere like Iran, India or China ;)
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
It's not just white-collar welfare, it is the ultimate white-collar welfare!
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,754
48,582
136
Now if we can just get them to address the horrible situation with our borders, airports, and harbors...
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Why would senator from CA want to cut funding to a CA lab? Is she retarded? Let's build the stupid earth penetrator. I don't care if they build a toaster oven, bring more of our taxpayer money to CA. Otherwise it's gonna be spent building stupid projects like rainforest in Iowa or something. First we complain about not enough tax money coming back to CA, then we refuse money. Well, with cost overruns and enhancements, this $27M could easily have turned into $1B coming into CA and going to our scientists who then spend it in their communities, etc.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,888
48,668
136
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Why would senator from CA want to cut funding to a CA lab? Is she retarded? Let's build the stupid earth penetrator. I don't care if they build a toaster oven, bring more of our taxpayer money to CA. Otherwise it's gonna be spent building stupid projects like rainforest in Iowa or something. First we complain about not enough tax money coming back to CA, then we refuse money. Well, with cost overruns and enhancements, this $27M could easily have turned into $1B coming into CA and going to our scientists who then spend it in their communities, etc.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein

This is the same woman that wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Why would senator from CA want to cut funding to a CA lab? Is she retarded? Let's build the stupid earth penetrator. I don't care if they build a toaster oven, bring more of our taxpayer money to CA. Otherwise it's gonna be spent building stupid projects like rainforest in Iowa or something. First we complain about not enough tax money coming back to CA, then we refuse money. Well, with cost overruns and enhancements, this $27M could easily have turned into $1B coming into CA and going to our scientists who then spend it in their communities, etc.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein

This is the same woman that wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

That's her business, but when a senator from CA is blocking pork from coming into CA, that's our business. She better have a damn good explanation, and keeping the pork spending down isn't gonna cut it.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,888
48,668
136
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Why would senator from CA want to cut funding to a CA lab? Is she retarded? Let's build the stupid earth penetrator. I don't care if they build a toaster oven, bring more of our taxpayer money to CA. Otherwise it's gonna be spent building stupid projects like rainforest in Iowa or something. First we complain about not enough tax money coming back to CA, then we refuse money. Well, with cost overruns and enhancements, this $27M could easily have turned into $1B coming into CA and going to our scientists who then spend it in their communities, etc.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein

This is the same woman that wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

That's her business, but when a senator from CA is blocking pork from coming into CA, that's our business. She better have a damn good explanation, and keeping the pork spending down isn't gonna cut it.

She leans about as far left as possible when weapons of any sort are the issue, IIRC.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Why would senator from CA want to cut funding to a CA lab? Is she retarded? Let's build the stupid earth penetrator. I don't care if they build a toaster oven, bring more of our taxpayer money to CA. Otherwise it's gonna be spent building stupid projects like rainforest in Iowa or something. First we complain about not enough tax money coming back to CA, then we refuse money. Well, with cost overruns and enhancements, this $27M could easily have turned into $1B coming into CA and going to our scientists who then spend it in their communities, etc.
Here's an idea....how about giving the monet saved back to taxpayers? Noooo.....surely we would never want to do something like that......

 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Why would senator from CA want to cut funding to a CA lab? Is she retarded? Let's build the stupid earth penetrator. I don't care if they build a toaster oven, bring more of our taxpayer money to CA. Otherwise it's gonna be spent building stupid projects like rainforest in Iowa or something. First we complain about not enough tax money coming back to CA, then we refuse money. Well, with cost overruns and enhancements, this $27M could easily have turned into $1B coming into CA and going to our scientists who then spend it in their communities, etc.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein

This is the same woman that wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

That's her business, but when a senator from CA is blocking pork from coming into CA, that's our business. She better have a damn good explanation, and keeping the pork spending down isn't gonna cut it.

She leans about as far left as possible when weapons of any sort are the issue, IIRC.

Her #1 job is to bring pork to CA. Ideology should never come in the way of bringing home the bacon. She has to put aside her personal beliefs when it comes to bringing projects and money to CA. This could have employed 100 PhD's in CA. These are people who have studied all their lives for a chance to design a deep nuclear penertrator or a huge laser, and now will not get it. I am dissapointed in her.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Of course they're going to cut off the funding for the giant laser.. After all, all that we really need are sharks with frickin' laser beams...
 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,216
1
0
In a fell swoop, a powerful Republican lawmaker led Senate and House Democrats in killing the Bush administration's requests for a nuclear bunker buster and new nuclear weapons, as well as cutting $25 million from the National Ignition Facility.

Wow...Just wow...They actually managed to stop that from going through? Well done. Guess there are still sane people left in the world of politics.

But Hobson and Democrats had argued that the finished weapon, which would require $485 million to develop into a manufacturable design, would never be used and could hurt U.S. interests in discouraging weapons programs in other nations.

Well, duh...Anyone with half a brain knows that it would "hurt U.S. interests in discouraging weapons programs in other nations". It would have been such blatant hypocrisy for them to try and stop others from doing it, while they themselves are doing it, if that had gone through.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Of course they're going to cut off the funding for the giant laser.. After all, all that we really need are sharks with frickin' laser beams...

If you want to cancel the Alan Parsons Project, I'm going to have some strong words for you.
 

AFB

Lifer
Jan 10, 2004
10,718
3
0
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Of course they're going to cut off the funding for the giant laser.. After all, all that we really need are sharks with frickin' laser beams...

If you want to cancel the Alan Parsons Project, I'm going to have some strong words for you.

Haha, humor P&N, you don't see that much.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
What's the point of developing costly and unnecessary weapons programs?
Necessity is not always the mother of all inventions.

Sometimes, good things come out of research.

Even research into things that some people do not think that we need or want.


 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: conjur
What's the point of developing costly and unnecessary weapons programs?
Necessity is not always the mother of all inventions.

Sometimes, good things come out of research.

Even research into things that some people do not think that we need or want.

Agreed...the US should publicly fund army robots, time travel and how bout a little more on PSI and remote viewing...

A true new age republican...spend everything now, hope for the best and waste waste waste.

How bout keeping an eye on that deficit there bub...then think about investing in the crap.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: conjur
What's the point of developing costly and unnecessary weapons programs?
Necessity is not always the mother of all inventions.

Sometimes, good things come out of research.

Even research into things that some people do not think that we need or want.

Agreed...the US should publicly fund army robots, time travel and how bout a little more on PSI and remote viewing...

A true new age republican...spend everything now, hope for the best and waste waste waste.

How bout keeping an eye on that deficit there bub...then think about investing in the crap.

Somebody has to spend the R&D funds so that Canada can leech off of the results and continue to exist.

 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: conjur
What's the point of developing costly and unnecessary weapons programs?
Necessity is not always the mother of all inventions.

Sometimes, good things come out of research.

Even research into things that some people do not think that we need or want.

Agreed...the US should publicly fund army robots, time travel and how bout a little more on PSI and remote viewing...

A true new age republican...spend everything now, hope for the best and waste waste waste.

How bout keeping an eye on that deficit there bub...then think about investing in the crap.

Somebody has to spend the R&D funds so that Canada can leech off of the results and continue to exist.

Hahaha...now that there is a loaded statement...

btw...what is your political stance...seems like you are proposing/suggesting larger government. If you are pro R&D and spending...i hope you voted Green this election...as their platform im sure would bode well with the ideals you have. Lots of R&D to be had investigating environmental improvements.

But even if you are anti-enviroment as you prolly are with ur pal Bush, im sure there will be some "good things come out of research. Even research into things that some people do not think that we need or want."
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,754
48,582
136
Even research into things that some people do not think that we need or want.



I'll tell you what we don't need, to be pursuing advanced nuclear weapons while at the same time trying to convince the world that no one else should have them at all. Double-standards make our allies uneasy, and justify the actions of our enemies. Funds used there could really be used for something actually germane to our current situation, say perhaps new satellite technology that monitors our borders in real time, or next gen scanning equipment for the millions of shipping containers that come into the country every week.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: amdfanboy
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Of course they're going to cut off the funding for the giant laser.. After all, all that we really need are sharks with frickin' laser beams...

If you want to cancel the Alan Parsons Project, I'm going to have some strong words for you.

Haha, humor P&N, you don't see that much.

I thought this was called Preperation H.