Bush's Echo Chamber

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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NY Times

OP-ED COLUMNIST

Bush's Echo Chamber

By BOB HERBERT


Published: November 19, 2004

Colin Powell, who urged the president to think more deeply about the consequences of invading Iraq, is being shoved toward the exit. And Condoleezza Rice, who blithely told America, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud," is being ushered in to take his place.

Competence has never been highly regarded by the fantasists of the George W. Bush administration. In the Bush circle, no less than in your average youth gang, loyalty is everything. The big difference, of course, is that the administration is far more dangerous than any gang. History will show that the Bush crowd of incompetents brought tremendous amounts of suffering to enormous numbers of people. The amount of blood being shed is sickening, and there is no end to the grief in sight.

Ironically, Ms. Rice was supposed to be the epitome of competence. She was the charming former provost of Stanford University, an expert on Soviet and East European affairs who was also an accomplished pianist, ice skater and tennis player, and the presidential candidate George W. Bush's tutor on foreign policy.

She was superwoman. They didn't come more accomplished.

She and Mr. Bush developed a remarkable bond, and he made her his national security adviser. Which was a problem. Because all the evidence shows she wasn't very good at the job.

Ms. Rice's domain was the filter through which an awful lot of mangled and misshapen intelligence made its way to the president and the American people. She either believed the nonsense she was spouting about mushroom clouds, or she deliberately misled her president and the nation on matters that would eventually lead to the deaths of thousands.

Secretary Powell's close friend and deputy at the State Department, Richard Armitage, viewed Ms. Rice's operation with contempt. In his book "Plan of Attack," Bob Woodward said Mr. Armitage "believed that the foreign-policy-making system that was supposed to be coordinated by Rice was essentially dysfunctional."

In October 2003, the president, frustrated by setbacks in Iraq, put Ms. Rice in charge of his Iraq Stabilization Group, which gave her the responsibility for overseeing the effort to quell the violence and begin the reconstruction in Iraq.

We see from recent headlines how well that has worked out.

A crucial mentor for Ms. Rice was Brent Scowcroft, the national security adviser for the first President Bush. He appointed her to the National Security Council in 1989. Ms. Rice and the nation would have benefited if she had sought out and followed Mr. Scowcroft's counsel on Iraq.

Mr. Scowcroft's view, widely expressed before the war, was that the U.S. should exercise extreme caution. He did not believe the planned invasion was wise or necessary. In an article in The Wall Street Journal in August 2002, he wrote:

"There is scant evidence to tie Saddam to terrorist organizations, and even less to the Sept. 11 attacks. Indeed Saddam's goals have little in common with the terrorists who threaten us, and there is little incentive for him to make common cause with them."

Ms. Rice exhibited as little interest in Mr. Scowcroft's opinion as George W. Bush did in his father's. (When Bob Woodward asked Mr. Bush if he had consulted with the former president about the decision to invade Iraq, he replied, "There is a higher father that I appeal to.")

As I watch the disastrous consequences of the Bush policies unfold - not just in Iraq, but here at home as well - I am struck by the immaturity of this administration, whatever the ages of the officials involved. It's as if the children have taken over and sent the adults packing. The counsel of wiser heads, like George H. W. Bush, or Brent Scowcroft, or Colin Powell, is not needed and not wanted.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

I look at the catastrophe in Iraq, the fiscal debacle here at home, the extent to which loyalty trumps competence at the highest levels of government, the absence of a coherent vision of the future for the U.S. and the world, and I wonder, with a sense of deep sadness, where the adults have gone.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Makes you wonder how much Rice's experience from having worked with Scowcroft was comprimised by Cheney and the PNAC neocons.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: slyedog
some of the same crap that herbert writes for the lib,s

which naturally makes it 100% not true.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

Which naturally means the truth hurts, Conjur. ;)



 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,983
6,809
126
When you speak of the Chimp and his lack of ethical culture you have to understand that what you see as a tremendous defect is seen by other fools as strength. The idiot Bush is invisible to others of his kind.
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: slyedog
some of the same crap that herbert writes for the lib,s

which naturally makes it 100% not true.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

Which naturally means the truth hurts, Conjur. ;)



huh?




:confused:
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: slyedog
some of the same crap that herbert writes for the lib,s

which naturally makes it 100% not true.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

Which naturally means the truth hurts, Conjur. ;)



huh?




:confused:
It has happened in quite a few threads. ;) Its a little lap dog kind of thing, if you know what I mean. :D

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: slyedog
some of the same crap that herbert writes for the lib,s

which naturally makes it 100% not true.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

Which naturally means the truth hurts, Conjur. ;)



huh?




:confused:

Oops, got my icons mixed up. I mistook Loki8481 or Conjur.

They look like they could be twins.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: slyedog
some of the same crap that herbert writes for the lib,s

which naturally makes it 100% not true.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

Which naturally means the truth hurts, Conjur. ;)



huh?




:confused:
It has happened in quite a few threads. ;) Its a little lap dog kind of thing, if you know what I mean. :D

Don't feel like you need to strain yourself and respond to the ideas from the OP.

 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: slyedog
some of the same crap that herbert writes for the lib,s

which naturally makes it 100% not true.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

Which naturally means the truth hurts, Conjur. ;)


huh?




:confused:
It has happened in quite a few threads. ;) Its a little lap dog kind of thing, if you know what I mean. :D

Don't feel like you need to strain yourself and respond to the ideas from the OP.
There are no Ideas presented in the OP, only the typical vitriol filled BS of another member of the elite Bush hating club.

I guess this would be the fad in the circles that you run in, so I will leave you to lap it up. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: slyedog
some of the same crap that herbert writes for the lib,s

which naturally makes it 100% not true.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

Which naturally means the truth hurts, Conjur. ;)


huh?




:confused:
It has happened in quite a few threads. ;) Its a little lap dog kind of thing, if you know what I mean. :D

Don't feel like you need to strain yourself and respond to the ideas from the OP.
There are no Ideas presented in the OP, only the typical vitriol filled BS of another member of the elite Bush hating club.

I guess this would be the fad in the circles that you run in, so I will leave you to lap it up. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Let me help you with your reading comprehension.

1. Colin Powell, a moderate in this administration, is being replaced by the woman who made a false claim about Saddam's nuclear capability and housed that claim in a threat designed to frighten Americans into accepting Bush's unprovoked attack on Iraq: "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"

2. Loyalty trumps competence in the Bush administration.

3. From all evidence Rice wasn't very good as Bush's NSA.

4. Rice failed to heed her mentor, Brent Scowcroft, who, as it turns out, was right about Saddam when he said:
"There is scant evidence to tie Saddam to terrorist organizations, and even less to the Sept. 11 attacks. Indeed Saddam's goals have little in common with the terrorists who threaten us, and there is little incentive for him to make common cause with them."
Rice chose to ignore Scowcroft and sign on to the big lie. The results are in the news daily.

5. The Bush administration is filled with immature adults whose policies are responsible for "the catastrophe in Iraq, the fiscal debacle here at home," and have created "absence of a coherent vision of the future for the U.S. and the world," leading Mr. Herbert to wonder "where the adults have gone".


Those ideas. I am not surprised, with you wearing your Bush blinders, that you missed them.

 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: slyedog
some of the same crap that herbert writes for the lib,s

which naturally makes it 100% not true.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

Which naturally means the truth hurts, Conjur. ;)














huh?




:confused:

Oops, got my icons mixed up. I mistook Loki8481 or Conjur.

They look like they could be twins.

;)


Yes, I've seen this before in this forum...people see the icon and assume it's Conjur.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Well, Conjur had just replied to the thread. When I saw the icon again I wrongly thought it was him.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: slyedog
some of the same crap that herbert writes for the lib,s

which naturally makes it 100% not true.

Some of the world's most important decisions - often, decisions of life and death - have been left to those who are less competent and less experienced, to men and women who are deficient in such qualities as risk perception and comprehension of future consequences, who are reckless and dangerously susceptible to magical thinking and the ideological pressure of their peers.

Which naturally means the truth hurts, Conjur. ;)


huh?




:confused:
It has happened in quite a few threads. ;) Its a little lap dog kind of thing, if you know what I mean. :D

Don't feel like you need to strain yourself and respond to the ideas from the OP.
There are no Ideas presented in the OP, only the typical vitriol filled BS of another member of the elite Bush hating club.

I guess this would be the fad in the circles that you run in, so I will leave you to lap it up. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Let me help you with your reading comprehension.

1. Colin Powell, a moderate in this administration, is being replaced by the woman who made a false claim about Saddam's nuclear capability and housed that claim in a threat designed to frighten Americans into accepting Bush's unprovoked attack on Iraq: "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"

2. Loyalty trumps competence in the Bush administration.

3. From all evidence Rice wasn't very good as Bush's NSA.

4. Rice failed to heed her mentor, Brent Scowcroft, who, as it turns out, was right about Saddam when he said:
"There is scant evidence to tie Saddam to terrorist organizations, and even less to the Sept. 11 attacks. Indeed Saddam's goals have little in common with the terrorists who threaten us, and there is little incentive for him to make common cause with them."
Rice chose to ignore Scowcroft and sign on to the big lie. The results are in the news daily.

5. The Bush administration is filled with immature adults whose policies are responsible for "the catastrophe in Iraq, the fiscal debacle here at home," and have created "absence of a coherent vision of the future for the U.S. and the world," leading Mr. Herbert to wonder "where the adults have gone".


Those ideas. I am not surprised, with you wearing your Bush blinders, that you missed them.
You know, I looked up the definition of Idea, and there it was. This line: something imagined or pictured in the mind. So in your twisted mind, i suppose you could call these ideas. Like I said, I will leave you to lap it up. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
You know, I looked up the definition of Idea, and there it was. This line: something imagined or pictured in the mind. So in your twisted mind, i suppose you could call these ideas. Like I said, I will leave you to lap it up. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[/quote]

I'm surprised you managed to figure out how to use the dictionary.

No opinion on the ideas from Mr. Herbert???

I wouldn't want you to strain yourself. Just keep on trolling. :cookie: