Bush: The War Stopper!

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: feralkid
We did. Do you know nothing of History?

You just got done saying we should have gone to war in 1939.

Look at US military production prior to and during WW 2.

It is very clear that we did not really ramp up war production until 1942.

So what were you jabbering on about when you posted this?
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
If we had declared war against Germany in 1939 when they invaded Poland and started sending troops etc to Europe WW2 would have been FAR shorter than it was and we could have saved millions of lives.

What I am saying is that if we got involved in the war at the start it would have been much shorter and cost much fewer lives.

 

[Lemon law]

Lets see if I can get my arms around the PJ position, as he states, " As usual lemon shows that he is an idiot as well.

Since 1967 Israel has made peace with Egypt and given back the Sinai, made peace with Jordan, and made peace with Saudi Arabia.

The Palestinians on the other hand refuse any type of peace agreement and continue their futile war that results in the deaths of hundreds innocent women and children.

Also, ever notice that the definition of "Middle East cease fire" is that Israel will do nothing while Hamas launches all the rockets it wants??"

Lets see how this works out for Israel and the mid-east., Israel has given Egypt back the worthless and uninhabitable Sinai desert, land taken from Jordon now forms the West Bank Israel continues to settle on, while thousands of Saudi Nationals continue to fund anti-Israeli terrorists. Meanwhile Arab street attitudes favor Palestinians and hate Israel by about a 96% to 4% margin, meaning any Arab country's leaders
cannot rest easy because they are likely to get overthrown as conditions are ripe for a new Nasser trying to unite Arab States with an final Arab Jihad against being a exploitable and overwhelming popular wedge to exploit. And when Israel kicks a moderate like Mubarak in the teeth, it only empowers extremists.

As for the Palestinians, they are really screwed, if they do nothing, they get pushed off their land, if they fire rockets like honest resisters, they get screwed, but they continue to demand justice and have since 1948. Hamas is nothing new, and if Hamas does not deliver positive results that drives Israel to the negotiating table willing to offer better than a totally one sided deal, other even more radical groups will replace them. The trend lines are clear, Stateless terrorists will get rockets with longer ranges, pack them with chemical and biological weapons, and Israel better defuse hatreds or no one will support them.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What I am saying is that if we got involved in the war at the start it would have been much shorter and cost much fewer lives.

I wasn't around back then, and hindsight is always so clear, but could it be that we didn't know it would turn out like it did?

Plus, mobilizing an entire country and modernizing it takes time. I find it amazing that we were able to ramp up like we did.

 

[sandorski]

OMG! Bush is a Hero and Peace Maker!!! How did we not notice???

:roll::thumbsdown:

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
America needs to cut all funds off to Israel.

Agreed. Israel is a bloodsucking leech.

Such kind words for the enemy of our enemy. What words do you have for our killers? Probably none, since you are no different from them.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
BTW how exactly is the UN going to stop anything?? And does your grand idea include the UN stopping Hamas as well?

Why would the terrorists and their sympathizers want to stop themselves? That is the beauty of UN peacekeeping efforts, to protect and harbor the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah while restraining the opponents of those organizations.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
... land taken from Jordon now forms the West Bank Israel continues to settle on...

The West Bank wasn't ever rightfully Jordan's to begin with, it is still Palestinian territory as affirmed by the UN partition plan, and that legal status has not changed since then.

Granted, at least Jordan offered Palestinians citizenship rather than herding them together like cattle to colonize the land around them as Israel continues to do.

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The Palestinians on the other hand refuse any type of peace agreement and continue their futile war that results in the deaths of hundreds innocent women and children.

Israel's ongoing colonization of the West Bank actively refuses Palestinians their right to exist as a sovereign nation in what little of their homeland they still hold rightful claim to.

What do you suggest Israel does with those millions of Palestinians?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
BTW how exactly is the UN going to stop anything?? And does your grand idea include the UN stopping Hamas as well?

Why would the terrorists and their sympathizers want to stop themselves? That is the beauty of UN peacekeeping efforts, to protect and harbor the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah while restraining the opponents of those organizations.

To stop the terrorists we have to cut off their best recruitment tool, which is Israel's ongoing colonization of the Palestinian territory.

From there, those who still insist on attacking Israel will continue to die of their own stupidity, but without driving others to their cause.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

As for the Palestinians, they are really screwed, if they do nothing, they get pushed off their land, if they fire rockets like honest resisters, they get screwed, but they continue to demand justice and have since 1948. Hamas is nothing new, and if Hamas does not deliver positive results that drives Israel to the negotiating table willing to offer better than a totally one sided deal, other even more radical groups will replace them. The trend lines are clear, Stateless terrorists will get rockets with longer ranges, pack them with chemical and biological weapons, and Israel better defuse hatreds or no one will support them.

So I take it firing rockets blindly into civilian population is now "honest resistance". Good. Another thing I learned from your post is that Hamas, in your eyes, formally represents the the Palestinian people. It's not a rogue terrorist organization but a legitimate national leader.

It's amazing how an extremely religious fascist terrorist organization has become a lighthouse for freedom fighters around these forums.

Israel never refused to talk with the Palestinians. The terms under which the Palestinians wanted peace were, and still are, unacceptable for Israel. No country in the world has the power to coerce Israel into an agreement that is spells its demise.

The Hamas crew over here claims that Israel just needs to give them the West Bank. Why, then, are the Palestinians still insisting on the right of return? They want their country, and then they want to get a demographic majority in Israel too. How can Israel possibly accept that?

And what exactly do you think is going to happen the day Hamas have their way? They'll disarm? Dismantle? Turn into a prosperous free country? Or is it going to be a miniaturized Iran, occasionally attacking Israel - just like Hizballah acts?

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

So what do you Bush=War Monger people have to say about this? GWB actually told Israel NO! Several times.

hahah come on dude. He turns down one war, so you want to remove his war monger label? Don't be absurd.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Israel never refused to talk with the Palestinians. The terms under which the Palestinians wanted peace were, and still are, unacceptable for Israel.

Exactly, Israel will only talk on the terms of denying Palestinians the right of soverginty over what little of there homeland they still hold rightful claim to under international law.

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
No country in the world has the power to coerce Israel into an agreement that is spells its demise.

And there is no reason to do anything of the sort.

However, the world can bring to stop their ongoing colonization of the West Bank that actively perpetrates the demise of Palestine which you so savagely defend.

It is simply up to us Americans to make our government stop holding the world back from bringing a just resolution to this conlifct.

 

[manowar821]

Haha.. Okay, let's all give a round of applause for the asshole. Not.

 

[kylebisme]

Exactly, Bush had eight years to turn the Israel Palestine conflict around but has only done things which made it worse there and well as elsewhere in the Middle East:

bin Laden's 'letter to America'

Sunday 24 November 2002
...

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.

...

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.

...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

When Bush says "they hate us for our freedoms" I'm not sure if he believes it or not. However, I know damn well what drives terrorists insane with hate is the injustice our leaders continue to inflict on good people, such as the many in Palestine, and Bush's policies have only perpetuated this conflict.

 

[palehorse]

The UN is an impotent and useless agency that we should have walked away from decades ago.

 

[kylebisme]

Surely you don't mean before the UN helped bring an end to South African apartheid?

Or I suppose some bigotry keeps you from having any respect for how how the world helped people overcome oppression in South Africa, just like you obviously have no interest for doing in Palestine, eh?

 

[filetitan]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
America needs to cut all funds off to Israel.

We needed to do more than that.

We need to cut off diplomatic support to Israel, as it is our veto power in the UN which has blocked all the Security Council resolution which could have ended this madness long ago.

That is how the world brought South African apartheid to an end, and we can do much the same to bring Israeli's ongoing denial of Palestine's right to exist to an end.

Palestine and Hamas are the ones denying Israels right to exist. It is why they fight and turn down every two state solution possible. For someone who enjoys polishing the knob of people who blow up buses and kill themselves in the middle of busy markets, let a lot use civilians proudly as human shields you should really learn more about the people you are defending and not just the situation.

okay, now lets look at the opposite side of the fence.