Bush screws up calling reformist Iran "Axis of Evil"

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I think this is relevant since our beloved Anand is half Iranian.



<< William O. Beeman

PRESIDENT BUSH'S targeting of Iran as part of an "axis of evil" during his State of the Union Address left world leaders and Mideast experts scratching their heads in wonder, since it made so little sense to them. It is now evident that this bit of rhetoric is the result of faulty intelligence and ill-considered judgment. In short, it is a misstep in American foreign policy that will set back the course of peace in the Mideast.

By all accounts, President Bush planned only to mention Iraq in earlier drafts of the address. He then added North Korea to broaden the scope of America's "war on terrorism." The last-minute addition of Iran in the "axis of evil" was the result of disinformation provided by Israeli intelligence sources, according to well-attested sources from the French Secret Services.

Israel has been alarmed in recent months at growing rapprochement between the United States and Tehran. They view the Iranian government as a long-term supporter of Hezbollah forces and potential launchers of missiles against Israel. Iran steadfastly denies these charges and indeed no hard evidence has ever been produced to substantiate the Israeli assertions.

Therefore, the Israelis spread the incredible rumor that Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar had escaped to Iran, and were being kept under Iranian government protection. This explains Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's assertion, made the following Sunday as an explanation for Bush's attack on Iran, that Iran was allowing al-Qaida forces to cross the Iranian border.

President Bush called on the nations of the "axis of evil" to change their ways. For Iran, however, his very attack is going to make this more difficult. Bush's words have undercut Iran's reformers led by President Ali Khatami and given unwitting support to the hardliners. If Iran's attempts to move toward a more international standard in its behavior are going to be met with a slap in the face from Washington, why should Khatami and the reformers make the effort to confront the conservatives? Many reformers have faced persecution and arrest already to do this.

Ironically, if Israel fears Iran, it is worse off trying to estrange Tehran from Washington. Closer American ties to Iran will give the U.S. government greater influence over Iranian foreign policy -- as Britain, Germany, Italy and Japan currently have. Indeed, leaders in every one of these American ally nations have expressed dismay at Bush's volley. They realize that as long as American influence remains remote, extremist forces in Iran have greater latitude to further their policies.

Sadly, it looks as if President Bush is practicing the late Tip O'Neill's political principle: "All politics is local." U.S. politicians have known for the last two decades that attacking Iran is always a safe political move with U.S. voters. It is a sad commentary on our political life that the State of the Union address should be used for such cheap political shots.

It is time for the president to recant this foolish pronouncement, respond to more accurate, unbiased intelligence sources, and move toward the development of serious diplomatic relations with Tehran. Iran's strategic location and economic importance make it both inevitable and imperative that the United States reestablish relations with the Iranians, rather than lobbing intemperate and ill-considered invective at them.

William O. Beeman teaches anthropology at Brown University. He has conducted research in Iran for more than 30 years and is author of Language, Status and Power in Iran.


William O. Beeman
Department of Anthropology
Brown University
>>

 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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<< PRESIDENT BUSH'S targeting of Iran as part of an "axis of evil" during his State of the Union Address left world leaders and Mideast experts scratching their heads in wonder, since it made so little sense to them. It is now evident that this bit of rhetoric is the result of faulty intelligence and ill-considered judgment. In short, it is a misstep in American foreign policy that will set back the course of peace in the Mideast. >>



Probably the same folks that scratched their heads in wonder because it made so little sense to them, when Reagan gave the "evil empire" speech and said "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" (referring to the Berlin Wall).

The "experts" were wrong then, and they're wrong now. The last thing we need is a bunch of pointy headed academians running our foreign policy. President Bush has been making all the right decisions since 9-11, and history will show him to be right with the "Axis of evil" speech as well.

On a related note, why does that phrase "Axis of evil" seem to terrify so many of you out there?
 

Slacker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I thought I heard something about Iraq and Iran having talks to form a strategic alliance?
 

CStroman

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Sep 18, 2001
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<< On a related note, why does that phrase "Axis of evil" seem to terrify so many of you out there? >>



During World War Two, Germany, Italy, and Japan were the "Axis Powers".
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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<< During World War Two, Germany, Italy, and Japan were the "Axis Powers". >>



No kidding?
rolleye.gif
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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<< On a related note, why does that phrase "Axis of evil" seem to terrify so many of you out there? >>



I imagine because "Axis" was the word given to Germany, et. al. during WWII.

But more likely because the countries GW named as this "Axis of evil," Iran, Iraq, N. Korea, etc., all hate each other.
 

ToBeMe

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
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Um......better look out.......Gore agrees with Bush..........

  • "Gore did embrace President George W Bush's controversial description of Iraq, Iran and North Korea as an "axis of evil".

    But he adds that military force alone will not win the long struggle against terrorism.

    He says other dangerous forces have to be reckoned with, such as poverty, ignorance, environmental problems, disease, corruption and political oppression.

    The former vice president comments come in his first policy address since the 2000 election."
 
Aug 10, 2001
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President Bush was referring to the ayatollahs in his speech. He distinctively said the "unelected few" who still control virtually every aspect of Iranian society. People just don't get it. The Iranian clergy finacially supports so many terrorist groups (particularly Hizbollah) and they have openly stated that they have desires to nuke Israel. This is the same crap that people said when former President Reagan called the former Soviet Union "evil." And if you ask any former leader of the Soviet Union, most of them will tell you that Reagan's comment was the reason that they lost their grip on power so quickly because it led to so much internal dissent.
 
Oct 16, 1999
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It was a stupid thing to say whether it was warranted or not. You just don't pont a finger like that in front of the world when you are currently dropping bombs in another country if diplomacy is still an option.
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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<< << On a related note, why does that phrase "Axis of evil" seem to terrify so many of you out there? >> >>



Because it's a big and ugly label, and if there is anything we need less of it's labels. To label a whole country and it's people as the "Axis of Evil" is pretty close minded. It's like saying the black race is _________. Specially in Iran were the large majority of the people support social reform, and a hanful of close-minded mullahs are ruining their image, and people like Bush making generlizations are not making the potential for relations any better.
 
Aug 10, 2001
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<<

<< << On a related note, why does that phrase "Axis of evil" seem to terrify so many of you out there? >> >>



Because it's a big and ugly label, and if there is anything we need less of it's a lable. To label a whole country and it's people as the "Axis of Evil" is pretty close minded. It's like saying the black race is _________.
>>


Is that what Bush said? Did he say that the Iranian people are evil? NO!
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
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It's just another Bushism thats gone bad. Real bad. somebody should muzzle him and not let him speak until he engages his brain.

This should be a lesson to all of you as to the long term affects of cocaine use.


Even his republican supporters are breaking ranks with him now. He is losing party loyalty because he doesn't speak right,or if he is, it isn't what the republican leadership wants to hear.

And I just love it.!:D
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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<< It was a stupid thing to say whether it was warranted or not. You just don't pont a finger like that in front of the world when you are currently dropping bombs in another country if diplomacy is still an option. >>



Says who? What great political mind came up with that doctrine? Would Winston Churchill have not mentioned Germany while the bombs were dropping during that conflict?

Some people just lose their minds when the word "evil" gets used... guess some words just strike a bit close to home for certain folks...
 

Jejunum

Golden Member
Jun 19, 2000
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yes it was a big screw up

please make america look like a bigger target

why dont we just stop sending f16's to israel and just (openly) give them nuclear weapons
 

ToBeMe

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
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<< It's just another Bushism thats gone bad. Real bad. somebody should muzzle him and not let him speak until he engages his brain.

This should be a lesson to all of you as to the long term affects of cocaine use.


Even his republican supporters are breaking ranks with him now. He is losing party loyalty because he doesn't speak right,or if he is, it isn't what the republican leadership wants to hear.

And I just love it.!:D
>>


Hmmm.....that's kinda' funny since Gore agrees with him.........;) BTW...........what Reps. are "breaking ranks"??????? haven't heard about this.......got a link??????;)
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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<< Probably the same folks that scratched their heads in wonder because it made so little sense to them, when Reagan gave the "evil empire" speech and said "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" (referring to the Berlin Wall). >>



Glenn1,

No fair bringing up stuff that happened before these little peaceniks were born. You are, or course, right on target. The same hue and cry echoed from the halls of liberal colleges all over the country when Reagan made his speech about the USSR. The eventual result? No more USSR.

Russ, NCNE

 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Um......better look out.......Gore agrees with Bush..........

Really, the only people I've heard who don't are Madeline Albright and Tom Daschle (though he's done a complete 180 in the last few weeks. Three weeks ago he agreed that Iran, Iraq, and North Korea were a threat, and now he needs to see "proof." Uh, Tom, Saddam's been building weapons of mass destruction since he kicked the UN inspectors out, North Korea has had working nuclear reactors for a couple years now, and in between sending weapons to the Palestinians, Iran has been buying up all the Russian military hardware they can get their hands on. I don't think they're chanting "Death to America" because they're our homies.)

President Bush was referring to the ayatollahs in his speech. He distinctively said the "unelected few" who still control virtually every aspect of Iranian society.

How much do you wanna bet you're one of the few people who posted to this thread who actually listened to the speech or read the transcript?
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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<< Is that what Bush said? Did he say that the Iranian people are evil? NO! >>



He should be more careful with his word use, how many Americans do you think actually know the difference between Iran's Ayatollahs and the will of the majority of Iranians? He basically killed years of relation building with the one stupid comment.
 
Aug 10, 2001
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Between liberals who like to make up their own facts and terrorists who want to kill us, I'm not sure how we're going to survive. And this is coming from someone who voted for Clinton in '96 and Gore in '00.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
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<< It was a stupid thing to say whether it was warranted or not. You just don't pont a finger like that in front of the world when you are currently dropping bombs in another country if diplomacy is still an option. >>


Part of effective diplomacy is dealing from a position of stength. This statement, which only time will tell its effects, is commonly referred to as "sabre rattling". Putting these countries on notice may in fact save thousands of lives. Also there are numerous reports (I cannot confirm the veracity of any of them) that the so called moderates are using Bush's statements to further their cause in Iran. Only time will tell us whether he was right or wrong to say this.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
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<< Um......better look out.......Gore agrees with Bush..........

  • "Gore did embrace President George W Bush's controversial description of Iraq, Iran and North Korea as an "axis of evil".

    But he adds that military force alone will not win the long struggle against terrorism.

    He says other dangerous forces have to be reckoned with, such as poverty, ignorance, environmental problems, disease, corruption and political oppression.

    The former vice president comments come in his first policy address since the 2000 election."
>>



Hmm, he's quite right (mostly about the poverty issue), though I suppose the right wingers will soon come here and start attacking him (and tell him me that Gore lost, lol)
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
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<< He basically killed years of relation building with the one stupid comment. >>



Yep, damn Reagan. Oh, wait, had a flashback.

Russ, NCNE

 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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<< He basically killed years of relation building with the one stupid comment. >>



WHAT relationship building?????




<< Bush's words have undercut Iran's reformers >>



What "reformers"? WTF is a "reformer" in Iran, someone who only chants "death to America" every other day?

Those who think that this is going to undercut a peace-loving government in Iran that's simply misunderstood, need to flush out your headgear. You're thinking with your rose colored peacenik glasses on, and not seeing (or not wanting to believe) reality.

For all intents and purposes, in the government, Iranian reformist = Iranian hardliner. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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<< He basically killed years of relation building with the one stupid comment. >>

What is "relation building" exactly?

Clinton appeasement?

IE, refusing to act when Iraq ejected the weapons inspectors, save for a few innefectual cruise missile strikes?

Bribing North Korea in hopes they would shut down their nuclear weapons program?
 
Aug 10, 2001
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<<

<< Is that what Bush said? Did he say that the Iranian people are evil? NO! >>



He should be more careful with his word use, how many Americans do you think actually know the difference between Iran's Ayatollahs and the will of the majority of Iranians? He basically killed years of relation building with the one stupid comment.
>>


He said "the unelected few who oppress the people." And most Iranians under 30 think that they are being oppressed. Heck, when Ashleigh Banfield of MSNBC went to the rally in Tehran, most of the people were very friendly to her. And they had to bus in people from all over the place because they couldn't find enough people who wanted to attend the rally. And even most of the people who chanted "Death to America" told her that they really didn't mean it.