Bush promotes bill allowing practically unfettered logging and deforestation

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: busmaster11
There may be merit to the theory that thinning forests prevents forest fires from spreading, but he and the repugnicant-controlled House pass a bill that does away with the requirement to have an environmental study before any logging is done.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/10/bush.forests.ap/index.html

Time and time again he's shown an afinity to whore out our country to those with $$$...

It appears the studys always seem to come up with logging is bad no matter what.

Year after year the number of acres lost to forest fires goes up.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
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"When you do the work right, you get thriving, natural forest that's got a nice, wide canopy."
Anyone else see anything wrong with that sentence? I'm getting so tired of the ass-backwards logic that has become the trademark of this regime.
 

abaez

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
7,158
1
81
Does he mean nice, wide canopy as in no canopy? How can you have a canopy without trees
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
The feds own, what, 40% of all land in the U.S. now? I'd think once in a while they could let us cut down a few trees to make apartment buildings at whatnot.

My guess is those environmental studies are mostly tree-hugging tools to deny use of that natural resource. Either way the forests won't be dissapearing anytime soon.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
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I was thinking more along calling a thinned forest a natural forest. This guy seems to fit as chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality as well as Ahscroft as AG. One disregards the laws of this country, the other the laws of nature.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
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Originally posted by: JellyBaby
My guess is those environmental studies are mostly tree-hugging tools to deny use of that natural resource. Either way the forests won't be dissapearing anytime soon.

LOL...

Is anyone else out there ignorant enough to back up that last sentence? I don't even think it deserves a rebuttal - that would give it legitimacy it doesn't deserve.

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: JellyBaby
My guess is those environmental studies are mostly tree-hugging tools to deny use of that natural resource. Either way the forests won't be dissapearing anytime soon.

LOL...

Is anyone else out there ignorant enough to back up that last sentence? I don't even think it deserves a rebuttal - that would give it legitimacy it doesn't deserve.

I have yet to see an environmentalist say forest thinning is a good idea. They would much rather see the forest go up in smoke.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: JellyBaby
My guess is those environmental studies are mostly tree-hugging tools to deny use of that natural resource. Either way the forests won't be dissapearing anytime soon.

LOL...

Is anyone else out there ignorant enough to back up that last sentence? I don't even think it deserves a rebuttal - that would give it legitimacy it doesn't deserve.

I have yet to see an environmentalist say forest thinning is a good idea. They would much rather see the forest go up in smoke.

Maybe that's because forests can and usually recover quite well from fires.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: JellyBaby
My guess is those environmental studies are mostly tree-hugging tools to deny use of that natural resource. Either way the forests won't be dissapearing anytime soon.

LOL...

Is anyone else out there ignorant enough to back up that last sentence? I don't even think it deserves a rebuttal - that would give it legitimacy it doesn't deserve.

I have yet to see an environmentalist say forest thinning is a good idea. They would much rather see the forest go up in smoke.

Maybe that's because forests can and usually recover quite well from fires.

As do selectively logged forrests.

CkG
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Sierra Club: Beyond the Heat and the Hype

Logging interests and pro-business federal agencies claim that we need to destroy much of our wild forests to help prevent dangerous forest fires. In fact, the reverse is true: logging has been shown to multiply the risk of catastrophic forest fires. That's because timber companies cut down the largest trees, which are the most resistant to fire, leaving behind flammable smaller trees and piles of debris.

Ironically, as the mythology of the forest fire has grown, our response has created conditions that inevitably lead to even bigger blazes. Through understanding forest fires, we can change course and break the cycle that leads to catastrophic infernos. By respecting the nature of forest fires and taking sensible steps that recognize their role in a healthy forest, we can protect homes, save American taxpayers money, defuse fire threats, and strengthen the heritage we call our nation's forests.

"Some public officials have tried to blame environmentalists for the forest fires that are ravaging Colorado, Arizona, and other Western states. These attempts to scapegoat environmentalists are a disturbing display of cynical politics," says Carl Pope, executive director of the Sierra Club.

"Scientists have determined these fire problems stem from three problems: nearly a century of fire suppression that removed the natural role fire plays in healthy forests, an extreme multi-year drought and decades of commercial logging that (have) removed large, fire-resistant trees."
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
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0
they do only when the forest is thin and you don't have large underbrush to create hot fires. normally if fires are allowed there's little underbrush so the large trees are not harmed. when you have lots of underbrush, well you basically clearcut.

now, both sides are in the wrong. environmentalists trying to save the trees destroy the whole forest. and loggers destroy the whole forest because the underbrush is not valuable. and of course the government doesn't want to pay for thinning.

what should happen is to allow conservationists like Al Sharpton(not environmentalists) to go around thinning by private donations, sierra club seems to have a ton of money and volunteers. stop protecting these dumb people who build houses in the middle of nowhere, and allow fire to carry it's natural course. if these people don't want fires they can pay for their own damn thinning. or we can just get our wood from canda, they're never going to run out...

if one has to choose between environmentalists and loggers, i would choose loggers. in both cases the forest is destroyed. however with loggers, they have to pay to replant trees.

also we're not losing forests. a lot of the forest land is replanted trees, the problem is the loggers choose the fastest growing trees and not necessarily the previous forest.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
49
91
Originally posted by: busmaster11
There may be merit to the theory that thinning forests prevents forest fires from spreading, but he and the repugnicant-controlled House pass a bill that does away with the requirement to have an environmental study before any logging is done.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/10/bush.forests.ap/index.html

Time and time again he's shown an afinity to whore out our country to those with $$$...

So where do you live, Chief? I live in Arizona, and let me tell you - it's dumbsh*ts like you that make the fires that are occuring all the more worse! Had proper maintenance of dead brush been allowed to happen, Rodeo-Chediski, the fire in Tucson this summer, and others, would have been a hell of a lot more manageable and wouldn't have destroyed so much property. We've had horrid drought conditions for the last couple years, and thankfully it's been raining a lot of late, but work still needs to be done to make sure more disasters don't happen.

What exactly is so wrong with being stewards of our natural environment? Nobody in the Forest Service is going to cut down the forest, that would make their job moot. What they ARE wanting to do is get rid of dead trees and dead brush that create a haven for bark beetle infestations and make dangerous wildfires a strong possibility. Bark beetles don't just eat dead trees - they eat live ones, too, and when they have plenty of dead timber to eat, they multiply like crazy, and spread to healthy trees. Had the dead brush been managed as it should have been, and not prevented by idiots like you and the Sierra Club, the bark beetles would not be a problem. As it stands right now, we stand a good chance of losing much of our forests - and not because of logging, but because of beetles. But hey, it's natural, just like a forest fire, so it's okay, right?
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
"When you do the work right, you get thriving, natural forest that's got a nice, wide canopy."
Anyone else see anything wrong with that sentence? I'm getting so tired of the ass-backwards logic that has become the trademark of this regime.


The culprit in forest fires isn't the trees. It's the underbrush that is allowed to grow unchecked. Tinder. Better forestry will prevent many forest fires and keep the fires that do occur naturally minimal.

But we wouldn't want to go and spend money on the Forestry Service, would we? Let's just maintain the status quo and use it as an excuse to cut 'em down so the Weyerhausers can make a few more million at the expense of the US taxpayer and the environment.
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
RE:"Knowing Bush, he's probably gonna start cutting in the redwood forests"

You don't know Bush. You're just a Bush Hater. Probably from birth.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Sierra Club: Beyond the Heat and the Hype

Logging interests and pro-business federal agencies claim that we need to destroy much of our wild forests to help prevent dangerous forest fires. In fact, the reverse is true: logging has been shown to multiply the risk of catastrophic forest fires. That's because timber companies cut down the largest trees, which are the most resistant to fire, leaving behind flammable smaller trees and piles of debris.

Ironically, as the mythology of the forest fire has grown, our response has created conditions that inevitably lead to even bigger blazes. Through understanding forest fires, we can change course and break the cycle that leads to catastrophic infernos. By respecting the nature of forest fires and taking sensible steps that recognize their role in a healthy forest, we can protect homes, save American taxpayers money, defuse fire threats, and strengthen the heritage we call our nation's forests.

"Some public officials have tried to blame environmentalists for the forest fires that are ravaging Colorado, Arizona, and other Western states. These attempts to scapegoat environmentalists are a disturbing display of cynical politics," says Carl Pope, executive director of the Sierra Club.

"Scientists have determined these fire problems stem from three problems: nearly a century of fire suppression that removed the natural role fire plays in healthy forests, an extreme multi-year drought and decades of commercial logging that (have) removed large, fire-resistant trees."

At least one thing is consistent with Bush Admin., solve the crisis with either wrong solution, or solution that benefits his buddies. Try to solve problem with terrorism by attacking Iraq, and now try to solve wild fire by allowing logging companies to cut trees without environmental agency auditing those practices.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
0
0
Originally posted by: X-Man
Originally posted by: busmaster11
There may be merit to the theory that thinning forests prevents forest fires from spreading, but he and the repugnicant-controlled House pass a bill that does away with the requirement to have an environmental study before any logging is done.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/10/bush.forests.ap/index.html

Time and time again he's shown an afinity to whore out our country to those with $$$...

So where do you live, Chief? I live in Arizona, and let me tell you - it's dumbsh*ts like you that make the fires that are occuring all the more worse! Had proper maintenance of dead brush been allowed to happen, Rodeo-Chediski, the fire in Tucson this summer, and others, would have been a hell of a lot more manageable and wouldn't have destroyed so much property. We've had horrid drought conditions for the last couple years, and thankfully it's been raining a lot of late, but work still needs to be done to make sure more disasters don't happen.
I live in the Midwest. Whats it to you?

I hardly think dead brush is what Bush and his goons are after. LOL

My beef is not so much with the logging, but with the way Bush goes at it, and the way he does everything in his power to circumvent the rules for his causes; as my initial and unedited post says, if you had bothered to read it before spewing.

 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Sierra Club: Beyond the Heat and the Hype

Logging interests and pro-business federal agencies claim that we need to destroy much of our wild forests to help prevent dangerous forest fires. In fact, the reverse is true: logging has been shown to multiply the risk of catastrophic forest fires. That's because timber companies cut down the largest trees, which are the most resistant to fire, leaving behind flammable smaller trees and piles of debris.

Ironically, as the mythology of the forest fire has grown, our response has created conditions that inevitably lead to even bigger blazes. Through understanding forest fires, we can change course and break the cycle that leads to catastrophic infernos. By respecting the nature of forest fires and taking sensible steps that recognize their role in a healthy forest, we can protect homes, save American taxpayers money, defuse fire threats, and strengthen the heritage we call our nation's forests.

"Some public officials have tried to blame environmentalists for the forest fires that are ravaging Colorado, Arizona, and other Western states. These attempts to scapegoat environmentalists are a disturbing display of cynical politics," says Carl Pope, executive director of the Sierra Club.

"Scientists have determined these fire problems stem from three problems: nearly a century of fire suppression that removed the natural role fire plays in healthy forests, an extreme multi-year drought and decades of commercial logging that (have) removed large, fire-resistant trees."

At least one thing is consistent with Bush Admin., solve the crisis with either wrong solution, or solution that benefits his buddies. Try to solve problem with terrorism by attacking Iraq, and now try to solve wild fire by allowing logging companies to cut trees without environmental agency auditing those practices.

I hope we never have a famine while Bush is in office.

 

Wildcats

Member
Jan 30, 2002
139
0
0
GW says: "If we cut down all of the trees and put up parking lots, how much oil product would it take? We need more and more and more oil to keep the profits up and ensure big $$ for the campaign. I promised them. They promised me! Me! Me! Me! He, hah! Sure love playing president!
 

Spyro

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2001
3,366
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: JellyBaby
My guess is those environmental studies are mostly tree-hugging tools to deny use of that natural resource. Either way the forests won't be dissapearing anytime soon.

LOL...

Is anyone else out there ignorant enough to back up that last sentence? I don't even think it deserves a rebuttal - that would give it legitimacy it doesn't deserve.

I have yet to see an environmentalist say forest thinning is a good idea. They would much rather see the forest go up in smoke.

Maybe that's because forests can and usually recover quite well from fires.

As do selectively logged forrests.

CkG

"Selectively" is the key word there. What about unselective logging?
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Without those pesky trees around, there won't be any forest fires, right? Just like without Saddam around, we won't have to worry about that pesky Iraq problem. The logic is infallible. Do you feel safer yet?
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Spyro
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: JellyBaby
My guess is those environmental studies are mostly tree-hugging tools to deny use of that natural resource. Either way the forests won't be dissapearing anytime soon.

LOL...

Is anyone else out there ignorant enough to back up that last sentence? I don't even think it deserves a rebuttal - that would give it legitimacy it doesn't deserve.

I have yet to see an environmentalist say forest thinning is a good idea. They would much rather see the forest go up in smoke.

Maybe that's because forests can and usually recover quite well from fires.

As do selectively logged forrests.

CkG

"Selectively" is the key word there. What about unselective logging?

That's called forrest fires and clearcutting - total devestation of the woodland. Your point?

Selective logging and brush clearing only makes sense.

/me puts heart on sleeve

"How many people have to die fighting forrest fires before someone does something about it"
"How many homes and towns have to be destroyed before someone does something about it"
"How many lives need to be put at risk before someone does something about it"
"Think of the animals!"

/me puts heart back in chest

CkG
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
Now, logging projects affecting 1,000 acres or less will not need such studies if the acres are deemed at-risk for fire. Controlled burns, where fire is used to burn excess trees under certain circumstances, could be done without environmental studies for projects up to 4,500 acres.

not exactly "unfettered logging and deforestation"

more hyperbole and slander from the liberals..
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Sigh,

Daschle seeks environmental exemption

"Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle quietly slipped into a spending bill language exempting his home state of South Dakota from environmental regulations and lawsuits, in order to allow logging in an effort to prevent forest fires.
The move discovered yesterday by fellow lawmakers angered Western legislators whose states were forced to obey those same rules as they battled catastrophic wildfires.
....
"

Did any of the lefties here complain when Daschle called for this exemption in his home state?

I didn't think so.