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Bush ok's bombing attacks on Kurds

GrGr

Diamond Member
Turkey praises US help as jets bomb northern Iraq

1 day ago

ANKARA (AFP) ? Turkey praised the United States on Wednesday for providing intelligence in support of attacks against Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq, as it confirmed its third such air strike in 10 days.

"Things are going on well at the moment. Intelligence is being shared" between the two NATO allies, Anatolia news agency quoted President Abdullah Gul as saying.

US support "befits our alliance," Gul said, adding: "Both of us are satisfied. This is how it should be. We could have come to this point earlier."

But the White House expressed concern to Ankara over the possible escalation of Turkey's attacks inside Iraq, especially "anything that could lead to ... civilian casualties," spokesman Scott Stanzel said.

Wednesday's air strike was the third against Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) targets in northern Iraq that the military has confirmed since December 16, in addition to a cross-border ground operation.

The raid followed intelligence that "a large group of terrorists, who have been watched for a long time, are preparing to pass the winter in eight caves and hideouts in the Zap region," the general staff said in a statement.

"Our warplanes hit the targets in an effective air raid that started in the morning hours of December 26," it said, without mentioning casualties.

Officials in Kurdish-run northern Iraq said the strike targeted deserted villages along the border, but the extent of the damage was not known.

The aircraft struck an area called Nirvorokan in Dohuk province at around 8:30 am (0530 GMT), they said, while a news agency close to the PKK reported that some 10 warplanes took part in the raid.

Iraqi Kurds have reported two other air strikes this month that Turkey has not confirmed, including a brief one on Tuesday.

The general staff said six PKK militants were killed Wednesday in mountains inside Turkey near the Iraqi frontier, bringing to 11 the death toll from a two-day security operation in the area. Two rebels were captured.

Faced with mounting PKK violence and exasperated by the safe haven which Ankara says the rebels enjoy in northern Iraq, the government secured in October a one-year parliamentary authorisation for cross-border strikes.

The PKK, listed as a terrorist group by Turkey and much of the international community, has waged a bloody campaign for Kurdish self-rule in southeast Turkey since 1984. The conflict has claimed more than 37,000 lives.

Ankara says an estimated 3,500 PKK militants have taken refuge in northern Iraq, using camps there as a springboard for attacks across the border.

At least 150 rebels were killed on December 16 in the largest air strike in northern Iraq so far, when fighter jets bombed positions along the Turkish border and in the Qandil mountains to the east, the military said Tuesday.

The strike, it said, destroyed more than 200 PKK targets, including command, training and logistical bases as well as anti-aircraft defence positions and ammunition depots.

Following talks with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in November, US President George W. Bush called the PKK a common enemy and promised "real-time" intelligence on the rebel movement.

"The PKK is a terrorist organization," Stanzel said. "The Iraqis don't want terrorists in their country and the PKK is a destabilizing force in the northern part of Iraq. So we continue to work collaboratively, both with Iraq and Turkey, on these issues."

But Washington fears that a large cross-border operation by the Turkish military might destabilise the relatively peaceful northern part of Iraq.

The Pentagon said last week a coordination centre was set up in Ankara where Turkish and US military officials are working to share intelligence.

Meanwhile a bomb blast in Turkey's biggest city, Istanbul, that killed a woman and injured six other people on Wednesday has been blamed on PKK militants.

Istanbul Governor Muammer Guler claimed the blast was caused by a "percussion bomb planted by the separatist terrorist organization," official code for the PKK, the Anatolia news agency reported.

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Wait a minute. I thought Bush was a hero because he saved the Kurds from Saddam Hussein's and Chemical Ali's evil bombs ? Apparently the only thing Bush thought was wrong with that was who the people doing the bombing were.


 
No problem, just remind the Kurds in the Iraq political system that these are the communists. We all know what happens when communists form a revolution. Die already communism.
 
Originally posted by: GrGr

Wait a minute. I thought Bush was a hero because he saved the Kurds from Saddam Hussein's and Chemical Ali's evil bombs ? Apparently the only thing Bush thought was wrong with that was who the people doing the bombing were.

Apples & oranges.

The PKK is a small group. IIRC, the US has them on the terrorist list.

Saddam was targeting the broader (non-terrorist) Kurdish population.

The Turks are our ally, no reason we shouldn't help them even if the rebels attacking them happen to be some Kurds.

Fern
 
Originally posted by: MadRat
No problem, just remind the Kurds in the Iraq political system that these are the communists. We all know what happens when communists form a revolution. Die already communism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have no real idea where this communistic crap comes from, but Kurdish aspirations are somewhat an equal opportunity employer for any political ideology. What we are really dealing with in the PKK is a terrorist organization that has been attacking Turkey with almost impunity for almost two decades. In terms of recent Kurdish aspiration to form their own State, the Kurds have had regional autonomy in Northern Iraq since the aftermath if Gulf war war. But prior to that, the Kurds were the very group that helped Lawrence of Arabia and subsequently
were screwed by the British when the promises were not redeemed. And that has been the Kurdish position ever since, always the bridesmaid but never the bride, as the Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without their own State.

The fly in the ointment has always been the fact that ethnic Kurds populate parts of Iran, Iraq,
Syria, and Turkey. And to add insult to injury, its mainly Turkey that is hypersensitive about Kurdish questions. And still deep in denial about its butchery of the Armenian also.

Just prior to the GWB&co. led occupation of Iraq in 2003, the executive leadership in Turkey signed on to allow the US to use Turkish territory as the other prong in a two pronged invasion of Iraq. Only to find the Turkish legislative putting an absolute veto on that use of Turkish soil.

So instead GWB&co. invaded from only the south and rolled up the Iraqi army in short order anyway. And then GWB&co. proceed to ignore Kurdish questions as the PKK continued to harass Turkey proper.

And 2007 has seen that shit hit the fan, as the Turks now have 225,000 troops massed at the Iraqi border determined to stop the PKK terrorism GWB&co. tried too long tom ignore. And we already see Turkish bombing and Turkish boots on the ground in Northern Iraq trying somewhat the futile attempt to contain well dug in PKK terrorists who will not give up.

On one hand it deters the Kurds in trying to form their own State and forces then back into the Iraqi orbit, but kites the danger that Turkey could become greedy and want to snatch up
oil resources in Northern Iraq.

Bottom line, worse case scenarios for Iraq have greatly increased.
 
Talk about spin!

I'm not surprised, given the OP, but this one is laughable :laugh:

Turkey is an ally, like it or not, PKK is a terrorist organization (and has been for some time).
 
The PKK are a terrorist group; and Turkey, like every other nation, has every right to defend themselves from terrorists.

It's a shame that it has to happen, but Bush is doing the right thing in supporting Turkey with this one.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Another troll reply from TLC, what a surprise as he totally ignores a hundred years of past history.
No surprise that LL can't quite figure out the difference between the Kurds as a whole and a small splinter group called the PKK either. And he claims others ignore history. Oh, the irony...
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The PKK are a terrorist group; and Turkey, like every other nation, has every right to defend themselves from terrorists.

It's a shame that it has to happen, but Bush is doing the right thing in supporting Turkey with this one.

As much as I dislike GWB, I think he's making the right call. Turkey is going to go after the PKK with or without US support. It would be far better to provide whatever information we can in order to minimize civilian casualties. Turkey hasn't the desire to randomly blast the Kurds, but their targeting isn't normally as selective as ours. It's the best of a bad situation.
 
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
"Sure those were children, but they were PKK obviously. They had that look, you know, like arabs." - Bush

"Kurds? Didn't Little Miss Muffet eat them along with her whey before the spider came down beside her?" - Ron Paul

Hey, as long as we're making up quotes here...
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
"Sure those were children, but they were PKK obviously. They had that look, you know, like arabs." - Bush

"Kurds? Didn't Little Miss Muffet eat them along with her whey before the spider came down beside her?" - Ron Paul

Hey, as long as we're making up quotes here...

"Waterboarding? Oh thats the new ride at the waterpark we built in Guantanamo. Sure its hard to breath at times, but thats because of the excitement!!" -Bush
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Why can't we do the same thing inside Pakistan?

Why would they do that now? They could just be patient, wait for another attack like 9/11, then get another 2-for-1 deal, Iran, and Pakistan.
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The PKK are a terrorist group; and Turkey, like every other nation, has every right to defend themselves from terrorists.

It's a shame that it has to happen, but Bush is doing the right thing in supporting Turkey with this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats somewhat a laughable assertion given the fact that GWB&co. tried to studiously ignore PKK incursions into Turkey for four long years while Turkey protested using diplomatic means

And once the Turkish legislature voted to cross the Rubicorn and take matters into their own hands, our surge argumented 170,000 troops are ill equipped to stand up to 225,000 Turkish troops already massed at the Northern Iraq border. And while the US will be hard pressed to
come up with more troops, the 225,000 is just a small fraction of what Turkey can muster.

Just like Vietnam, Turkey may well find itself unable to contain a well dug in PKK, and fall into that same trap of escalation of the conflict. And that same greedy lure of oil wealth in Iraq that
ensnared GWB&co. can also ensnare Turkey. And if the USA can't defend Iraqi borders, it may well turn into a general signal for all neighboring States to grab pieces of Iraq while the grabbing is good.

Just another worse case scenario for Iraq that now becomes more possible.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The PKK are a terrorist group; and Turkey, like every other nation, has every right to defend themselves from terrorists.

It's a shame that it has to happen, but Bush is doing the right thing in supporting Turkey with this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats somewhat a laughable assertion given the fact that GWB&co. tried to studiously ignore PKK incursions into Turkey for four long years while Turkey protested using diplomatic means

And once the Turkish legislature voted to cross the Rubicorn and take matters into their own hands, our surge argumented 170,000 troops are ill equipped to stand up to 225,000 Turkish troops already massed at the Northern Iraq border. And while the US will be hard pressed to
come up with more troops, the 225,000 is just a small fraction of what Turkey can muster.

Just like Vietnam, Turkey may well find itself unable to contain a well dug in PKK, and fall into that same trap of escalation of the conflict. And that same greedy lure of oil wealth in Iraq that
ensnared GWB&co. can also ensnare Turkey. And if the USA can't defend Iraqi borders, it may well turn into a general signal for all neighboring States to grab pieces of Iraq while the grabbing is good.

Just another worse case scenario for Iraq that now becomes more possible.

Well of course Bush tried to ignore the elephant in Kurdish lands. When all options are untenable then pretending trouble doesn't exist is SOP for politicians through the ages. Now that Turkey has taken action, what are the real options? The Iraqi government makes enough noise that Bush can't pretend that nothing is going on. He has precisely three choices then. Either keep Turkey out by force, ignore as we have, or minimize collateral damage. The first option is out, the second a proven failure, and that leaves the last.

As far as Turkey and a possible VN, I say no. It's not as if Turkey has to travel half way around the world into an unfamiliar area and function in an alien culture. That doesn't mean that the PKK will be easy to eliminate, however Turkey doesn't need to make war, nor really wants to. Instead it will use the military in a police action removing perpetrators as they find them. There is virtually no chance of them becoming mired in something they cannot withdraw from.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The PKK are a terrorist group; and Turkey, like every other nation, has every right to defend themselves from terrorists.

It's a shame that it has to happen, but Bush is doing the right thing in supporting Turkey with this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats somewhat a laughable assertion given the fact that GWB&co. tried to studiously ignore PKK incursions into Turkey for four long years while Turkey protested using diplomatic means

And once the Turkish legislature voted to cross the Rubicorn and take matters into their own hands, our surge argumented 170,000 troops are ill equipped to stand up to 225,000 Turkish troops already massed at the Northern Iraq border. And while the US will be hard pressed to
come up with more troops, the 225,000 is just a small fraction of what Turkey can muster.

Just like Vietnam, Turkey may well find itself unable to contain a well dug in PKK, and fall into that same trap of escalation of the conflict. And that same greedy lure of oil wealth in Iraq that
ensnared GWB&co. can also ensnare Turkey. And if the USA can't defend Iraqi borders, it may well turn into a general signal for all neighboring States to grab pieces of Iraq while the grabbing is good.

Just another worse case scenario for Iraq that now becomes more possible.
Heyyy, there you are! I thought someone might have misplaced our friendly neighborhood pessimist!

All of the emo kids were starting to take up hobbies and find direction! shew.. thank gawd you're still here to give them more stuff to cry about! :roll:
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I have no real idea where this communistic crap comes from, but Kurdish aspirations are somewhat an equal opportunity employer for any political ideology. What we are really dealing with in the PKK is a terrorist organization that has been attacking Turkey with almost impunity for almost two decades. In terms of recent Kurdish aspiration to form their own State, the Kurds have had regional autonomy in Northern Iraq since the aftermath if Gulf war war. But prior to that, the Kurds were the very group that helped Lawrence of Arabia and subsequently were screwed by the British when the promises were not redeemed. And that has been the Kurdish position ever since, always the bridesmaid but never the bride, as the Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without their own State.

The PKK was formed by student intellectuals and they are communists in ideology and doctrine. Don't let the mistakes of the past, where we allowed the spread of communism, to repeat itself. Communism in the PKK's form is no different than what spread throughout the world in the 50's and 60's. It's radical. Its violent. And its evil. The PKK doesn't want to just have an independent state alone, they want that independent state to be made of what is now Turkey.

Are you sure about the Lawrence of Arabia claim? I was pretty sure he worked with Bedouins, not Kurds.
 
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