Bush Hints He Favors Senate Plan on Immigration. Amnesty for illegals.

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/25/washi...html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

President Bush reinserted himself into the divisive debate over immigration on Monday, speaking favorably of a stalled Senate compromise that would put a vast majority of the nation's 11 million illegal immigrants on a path to citizenship.



I have been doing some thinking about this. If we had a choice of letting the 11 million current illegals stay under an amnesty program or deporting them and letting in 11 million legally which plan would benefit the US more?
I am of the opinion that we are better off with the current 11 million.
The current 11 millions mostly came here to work. As illegals the vast majority don't expect or hope for social welfare handouts. While of course some do some form of identity theft in order to get benefits, the vast majority don't. The ones here now work and send a huge amount of money back to Mexico. If we let them stay they can bring their families here and they will keep their money here. The ones who are here have a head start on learning English and the customs of America.
I don't think that many illegals are criminals in the sense of being bad people. They see work here that pays a much higher wage than in Mexico and they saw the easy border crossing and the de facto acceptance by the US government in letting them in and staying.
So rather than let in new immigrants who would immediately get government benefits and may come here with that in mind, I think the ones who are here should be alllowed to stay under rules of background checks, no criminal activity, etc.
And I think that in order to help American workers the newly legal immigrants should get equal government protection under the law so they get paid a minimum wage and are not abused by employers.
And we should seal the borders to new illegal immigration.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
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Figures say 30 million displaced in mexico by NAFTA, now they want CAFTA in central america, this is not over yet. If CAFTA rapes millions of dirt poor farmworkers out of a home like what happened in mexico the border jumping has just begun.

Maybe we can ask chavez to take some in, oh wait, chavez considers CAFTA 'Perverse' after seeing what it did to mexico and one of the big reasons he rails on and on about american "imperialism" enslaving other countries. oops.

Free Trade, gotta love it, oh well, south american countries are electing socialist leaders as fast as they can to oppose this kind of US policy. That is one positive aspect.....kinda
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
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Originally posted by: EatSpam
Here's your "conservative" president right here! Amnesty for illegals!

Ronald Reagan gave amnesty in 1986 and more than 2 million people became legalized. They promised stricter enforcement against employers and better border security. Now, there are more than 11 million "undocumentated" people. It failed then and it will fail now. The path to citizenship for these people should be at the END of the line behind all those people who are trying to enter the country through LEGAL means.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Figures say 30 million displaced in mexico by NAFTA, now they want CAFTA in central america, this is not over yet. If CAFTA rapes millions of dirt poor farmworkers out of a home like what happened in mexico the border jumping has just begun.

Maybe we can ask chavez to take some in, oh wait, chavez considers CAFTA 'Perverse' after seeing what it did to mexico and one of the big reasons he rails on and on about american "imperialism" enslaving other countries. oops.

Free Trade, gotta love it, oh well, south american countries are electing socialist leaders as fast as they can to oppose this kind of US policy. That is one positive aspect.....kinda

Wouldn't surprise me if this is by design. Big business loves cheap labor.

I support getting rid of NAFTA and CAFTA and applaud South American efforts to oppose them.
 

conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,569
901
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Originally posted by: chowderhead
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Here's your "conservative" president right here! Amnesty for illegals!

Ronald Reagan gave amnesty in 1986 and more than 2 million people became legalized. They promised stricter enforcement against employers and better border security. Now, there are more than 11 million "undocumentated" people. It failed then and it will fail now. The path to citizenship for these people should be at the END of the line behind all those people who are trying to enter the country through LEGAL means.

Quite rightly said FTW.

 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
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Thank this guy for NAFTA, another pro-corporate mess come back to slap us upside the head.

At least Jr. didn't get to pull the trigger on:

Bush plan that critics call ?NAFTA on steroids? stalls

President Bush?s goal for a free-trade zone encompassing the entire Western Hemisphere faces growing opposition in the United States and abroad.

The Free Trade Area of the Americas would lower tariffs and open up borders between 34 nations and 800 million people, creating the world?s largest free-trade zone.

Not even our whole military could watch the borders with that :roll:

The bush family (and certain corporate pandering dems who fall for signing this crap) are nuts.
 

CSMR

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2004
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Why is legalization linked to citizenship? Why are people wanting to make them citizens? I am all for an appropriately determined legal status but to say that a person who has entered the US illegally can become a citizen seems extreme to me.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
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Originally posted by: CSMR
Why is legalization linked to citizenship? Why are people wanting to make them citizens? I am all for an appropriately determined legal status but to say that a person who has entered the US illegally can become a citizen seems extreme to me.



I think it is more of a they are already moved in and it is partly our fault for kicking them out of their ancestoral homes so we might as well get them paying taxes and not treated as slaves, thats my take on it.

I am sure bush is trying to win over some voters for the GOP though more then actually being a caring guy.

I am waiting for the catch to this, like a non-unionizing clause or some other sick republican joke to ensure these people never pull themselves up into the middle class like our ancestors did when we had to start from the bottom.
 

fitzov

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2004
2,477
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Originally posted by: chowderhead
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Here's your "conservative" president right here! Amnesty for illegals!

Ronald Reagan gave amnesty in 1986 and more than 2 million people became legalized. They promised stricter enforcement against employers and better border security. Now, there are more than 11 million "undocumentated" people. It failed then and it will fail now. The path to citizenship for these people should be at the END of the line behind all those people who are trying to enter the country through LEGAL means.

Yes. The problem is getting the media to say it over and over again so that people learn it, rather than saying over and over again that the anti-anti-immigration people are protesting by the thousands.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
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Originally posted by: fitzov

Yes. The problem is getting the media to say it over and over again so that people learn it, rather than saying over and over again that the anti-anti-immigration people are protesting by the thousands.

I think it has more to do with the fact that anyone using their head on the matter considers mass deportaion a unrealistic fantasy.

Sorry to bust your bubble, I am sure you were looking forward to millions of rent-paying famlies being ejected from their homes and somewhere around 5% of our laborpool ripped from the economy to die in the desert so you could feel vindicated. :roll:

Money talks, and 11 million new taxpayers in the face of a SS crisis and potential voters is what is on the line here besides being one of the biggest human rights nightmares since the soviet union down the gulags.

The whole deportation thing is a big red herring to stir up fear and outrage, same as WMD stuff.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
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Originally posted by: CSMR
Why is legalization linked to citizenship? Why are people wanting to make them citizens? I am all for an appropriately determined legal status but to say that a person who has entered the US illegally can become a citizen seems extreme to me.
I think that will cause problems. By establishing a "second class" resident you risk the same problems they have in Europe with large numbers of semi-citizens. Without citizenship people feel alienated. They don't try to assimilate. They become outcasts.
Look at the situation in Europe with the riots.
Every ethinic group that came to America and became citizens assimilated and became an asset to America. Lets not break what has worked.

 

CSMR

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2004
1,376
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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: CSMR
Why is legalization linked to citizenship? Why are people wanting to make them citizens? I am all for an appropriately determined legal status but to say that a person who has entered the US illegally can become a citizen seems extreme to me.



I think it is more of a they are already moved in and it is partly our fault for kicking them out of their ancestoral homes so we might as well get them paying taxes and not treated as slaves, thats my take on it.
Yes but you don't need to be a citizen for this. I am in the US and I am not a slave and I pay tax but I am not a citizen.
 

CSMR

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2004
1,376
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Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: CSMR
Why is legalization linked to citizenship? Why are people wanting to make them citizens? I am all for an appropriately determined legal status but to say that a person who has entered the US illegally can become a citizen seems extreme to me.
I think that will cause problems. By establishing a "second class" resident you risk the same problems they have in Europe with large numbers of semi-citizens. Without citizenship people feel alienated. They don't try to assimilate. They become outcasts.
Look at the situation in Europe with the riots.
Every ethinic group that came to America and became citizens assimilated and became an asset to America. Lets not break what has worked.
You are referring to France I presume? The French love rioting. It is part of the national character. There are often riots and general disruptions about economic issues. In the recent muslim riots was citizenship an issue? Treatment of Muslims was the issue here. As far as I am aware citizens participated in the riots. In any case this is an issue of French and Islamic culture which does not apply to the states. The States has had riots involving black people but they have been citizens. Why do you think that illegals once granted legal non-citizen status are going to become outcasts and riot, if that is what you think?
Every ethinic group that came to America and became citizens assimilated and became an asset to America. Lets not break what has worked.
In what sense an asset? Do people become more of an "asset" by being citizens?
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
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If we do that...we BETTER give everyone citizenship who is waiting in line! This is absolutely unfair, and as a CITIZEN of the US who WAITED IN LINE like everyone else (though actually I just got a letter saying "Hey, you are a citizen now come on in!!" but I had to wait something like 15 years to get that) I don't see why it should be ANY different.