Bush ends executive ban on drilling...

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Gore has no plan? WTF - pretend his name is something else, and perhaps you can actually hear what he says. Electric or other alternatively powered cars/trucks - extra electricity as needed from renewable sources - solar, wind, etc..it's not complicated.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

And in the meantime, and near future, we are still going to consume at least some oil. Keeping as much of that money as we can in the US is just common sense.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

 

[ericlp]

there are about 5 or 6 members beating a dead horse to keep this alive. You could tell them the sun was coming up tomorrow and they would never believe you. I say you are wasting your time with these people. No matter how many times you tell them, and someone else tells them it's the classic line like this...

Ahh yes those magical alternatives that are going to show up when?


It's the same line OVER and OVER and OVER.... It's getting rather boring.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: ericlp
-snip-

but really...

Tho, you guys should read what the energy department said ... After that, get back to us.

A mute issue weather we did start drilling. I just think it was more PR for bush and a waste of time for the nation. And yeah, I'm a little pissed off on all the money and waste that comes from the guy.

And maybe you should do a little more reading yourself.

I posted not long ago infomation on how oil pricing and speculation etc. works, and how price sensitive oil is to demand. A little swing in either demand or supply results in big price changes.

As the article explains, projected future demand/supply is estimated/calculated and impacts price NOW. Factor in that along with the price sensitivity and the impact resulting from from opening up drilling will likely have a beneficial influence on price now. (Note: Of course must factor in projected increase in demand from Asia/China. However, the aggregate global increases in production will still always counter the increased price pressure from forecasted increased global demand. I.e., worst case is that increased forecast supply will negate increased demand and prevent prices from rapidly rising, instead of just droping current prices. Eother way, it's a benefit.)

BTW: I find it odd that some of you who refuse to believe anything said by this goverment under GWB wanna rely on the DOE now.

Fern

Selective interpretation?

We all believe what the government says about inflation right ? how about the slow growing economy?

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: NeoV
Gore has no plan? WTF - pretend his name is something else, and perhaps you can actually hear what he says. Electric or other alternatively powered cars/trucks - extra electricity as needed from renewable sources - solar, wind, etc..it's not complicated.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

And in the meantime, and near future, we are still going to consume at least some oil. Keeping as much of that money as we can in the US is just common sense.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

That's what I was thinking worse case scenerio we keep our money at home, when we start drilling for oil in 2-10 years or even 30 years...

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: ericlp
there are about 5 or 6 members beating a dead horse to keep this alive. You could tell them the sun was coming up tomorrow and they would never believe you. I say you are wasting your time with these people. No matter how many times you tell them, and someone else tells them it's the classic line like this...

Ahh yes those magical alternatives that are going to show up when?


It's the same line OVER and OVER and OVER.... It's getting rather boring.

Drunk again?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: NeoV
Gore has no plan? WTF - pretend his name is something else, and perhaps you can actually hear what he says. Electric or other alternatively powered cars/trucks - extra electricity as needed from renewable sources - solar, wind, etc..it's not complicated.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

And in the meantime, and near future, we are still going to consume at least some oil. Keeping as much of that money as we can in the US is just common sense.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

You do realize that oil is traded on an open worldwide market, don't you?

Are you implying that the United States should 'socialize' national oil production?

Originally posted by: Budmantom
That's what I was thinking worse case scenerio we keep our money at home, when we start drilling for oil in 2-10 years or even 30 years...

See above.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: NeoV
Gore has no plan? WTF - pretend his name is something else, and perhaps you can actually hear what he says. Electric or other alternatively powered cars/trucks - extra electricity as needed from renewable sources - solar, wind, etc..it's not complicated.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

And in the meantime, and near future, we are still going to consume at least some oil. Keeping as much of that money as we can in the US is just common sense.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

You do realize that oil is traded on an open worldwide market, don't you?

Are you implying that the United States should 'socialize' national oil production?

Are you serious? Yes, oil is traded on an open worldwide market.


Domestically produced oil is sold on that open market by.... wait for it...... a U.S. COMPANY hence keeping the money in the US economy versus some other countries economy. Not to mention the great high paying jobs they create and the royalties they pay to .gov.

A lot of things are sold on the worldwide market. Are you implying that you are for outsourcing the production of all of them to foreign countries?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: NeoV
Gore has no plan? WTF - pretend his name is something else, and perhaps you can actually hear what he says. Electric or other alternatively powered cars/trucks - extra electricity as needed from renewable sources - solar, wind, etc..it's not complicated.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

And in the meantime, and near future, we are still going to consume at least some oil. Keeping as much of that money as we can in the US is just common sense.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

You do realize that oil is traded on an open worldwide market, don't you?

Are you implying that the United States should 'socialize' national oil production?

Are you serious? Yes, oil is traded on an open worldwide market.


Domestically produced oil is sold on that open market by.... wait for it...... a U.S. COMPANY hence keeping the money in the US economy versus some other countries economy. Not to mention the great high paying jobs they create and the royalties they pay to .gov.

A lot of things are sold on the worldwide market. Are you implying that you are for outsourcing the production of all of them to foreign countries?

Mr. Emperor, you have no clothes.

Exxon Mobil has announced its biggest single investment in China, a joint venture to run 750 petrol stations and a petrochemical refinery.

Exxon Mobile is set to become the largest petrochemicals company operating in Singapore.

India: Shell in Exploration and Refinery Deal

Energy giant Shell has confirmed that it is going ahead with plans to build a new world-scale ethylene cracker on Singapore's Bukom Island.

BP has entered talks with Spice Energy, the group of Indian investors behind a $1bn (500m) plan to dismantle a refinery in Germany, pack it into containers and ship it to a site near the Indian city of Calcutta.

Chevron buys into $6 billion India refinery


Now you know where your money is going.

And you will be happy to know that Big Oil spends twice as much in buying back their own stock ...

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Bottom line: All of your concerns are currently being. Has your position changed?

I would have to see it all in writing and spend a good deal of time analyzing the details. However, if what you are saying is true then I would be more inclined to go along with this option.

I do have one last demand though. I want to ensure that this country will fight just as hard to discover an alternative energy/fuel source regardless of the outcome of drilling more domestic oil. A big fear of mine is that the demand for such a thing will temporarily decrease and along with it will be the decrease in demand and research for an alternative. Now, I am not certain what the best way would be to ensure this sort of thing. Perhaps it would involve a generous percentage of revenue that is produced by the drilling to go directly towards such research. I am not certain, but I am confident that there are enough experts out there who could come up with such a plan. I want a solid plan to be produced and set in stone.

If what you have told me concerning my demands for quality are already in place (virtually no pollution under any circumstance) and their is a plan which ensures very heavy demand and research for alternatives then you will most likely get me to switch gears.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: NeoV
Gore has no plan? WTF - pretend his name is something else, and perhaps you can actually hear what he says. Electric or other alternatively powered cars/trucks - extra electricity as needed from renewable sources - solar, wind, etc..it's not complicated.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

And in the meantime, and near future, we are still going to consume at least some oil. Keeping as much of that money as we can in the US is just common sense.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

You do realize that oil is traded on an open worldwide market, don't you?

Are you implying that the United States should 'socialize' national oil production?

Are you serious? Yes, oil is traded on an open worldwide market.


Domestically produced oil is sold on that open market by.... wait for it...... a U.S. COMPANY hence keeping the money in the US economy versus some other countries economy. Not to mention the great high paying jobs they create and the royalties they pay to .gov.

A lot of things are sold on the worldwide market. Are you implying that you are for outsourcing the production of all of them to foreign countries?

Mr. Emperor, you have no clothes.

Exxon Mobil has announced its biggest single investment in China, a joint venture to run 750 petrol stations and a petrochemical refinery.

Exxon Mobile is set to become the largest petrochemicals company operating in Singapore.

India: Shell in Exploration and Refinery Deal

Energy giant Shell has confirmed that it is going ahead with plans to build a new world-scale ethylene cracker on Singapore's Bukom Island.

BP has entered talks with Spice Energy, the group of Indian investors behind a $1bn (500m) plan to dismantle a refinery in Germany, pack it into containers and ship it to a site near the Indian city of Calcutta.

Chevron buys into $6 billion India refinery


Now you know where your money is going.

And you will be happy to know that Big Oil spends twice as much in buying back their own stock ...

First of all, its not my money its theirs. How many of those projects do you think they could even consider getting started in the U.S.? They are in the petrochemical business and if we don't let them invest money here they will invest it elsewhere. Your answer is to force them to keep making great jobs in other countries, keep paying royalties to other countries, and further develop energy infrastructure in other countries.

Your response is almost laughable. Your just pointing out that other countries are begging big bad oil to spend money in their countries while we are working as hard as we can to prevent them from spending money here.

My solution lets them invest more money here, create more good jobs here, improve our energy infrastructure and increase .govs income. Yall are grasping at straws now.

Edit: Btw, what do you have against them buying back their stock?

Edit2: Also, google Gulf of Mexico ultra-deep water drilling to see just ONE area where the big bad oil companies are investing 10's of billions of dollars in the US.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: NeoV
Gore has no plan? WTF - pretend his name is something else, and perhaps you can actually hear what he says. Electric or other alternatively powered cars/trucks - extra electricity as needed from renewable sources - solar, wind, etc..it's not complicated.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

And in the meantime, and near future, we are still going to consume at least some oil. Keeping as much of that money as we can in the US is just common sense.

It continues to amaze me how people are against this.

You do realize that oil is traded on an open worldwide market, don't you?

Are you implying that the United States should 'socialize' national oil production?

Are you serious? Yes, oil is traded on an open worldwide market.


Domestically produced oil is sold on that open market by.... wait for it...... a U.S. COMPANY hence keeping the money in the US economy versus some other countries economy. Not to mention the great high paying jobs they create and the royalties they pay to .gov.

A lot of things are sold on the worldwide market. Are you implying that you are for outsourcing the production of all of them to foreign countries?

Mr. Emperor, you have no clothes.

Exxon Mobil has announced its biggest single investment in China, a joint venture to run 750 petrol stations and a petrochemical refinery.

Exxon Mobile is set to become the largest petrochemicals company operating in Singapore.

India: Shell in Exploration and Refinery Deal

Energy giant Shell has confirmed that it is going ahead with plans to build a new world-scale ethylene cracker on Singapore's Bukom Island.

BP has entered talks with Spice Energy, the group of Indian investors behind a $1bn (500m) plan to dismantle a refinery in Germany, pack it into containers and ship it to a site near the Indian city of Calcutta.

Chevron buys into $6 billion India refinery


Now you know where your money is going.

And you will be happy to know that Big Oil spends twice as much in buying back their own stock ...

I'm not an authority on this but as I understand it:

Our government has made investments in our country rather difficult and these companies need to go where they can get the best return, between our regulations and our tax codes it makes it tough.

I have a feeling that the rate of return in India will be a lot better than what they can get here, I would love for them to invest here but they are in it to make money not charity.

Royalties, taxes and employment are still good reason to drill here and to keep our money away from countries that aren't friendly to us.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Bottom line: All of your concerns are currently being. Has your position changed?

I would have to see it all in writing and spend a good deal of time analyzing the details. However, if what you are saying is true then I would be more inclined to go along with this option.

I do have one last demand though. I want to ensure that this country will fight just as hard to discover an alternative energy/fuel source regardless of the outcome of drilling more domestic oil. A big fear of mine is that the demand for such a thing will temporarily decrease and along with it will be the decrease in demand and research for an alternative. Now, I am not certain what the best way would be to ensure this sort of thing. Perhaps it would involve a generous percentage of revenue that is produced by the drilling to go directly towards such research. I am not certain, but I am confident that there are enough experts out there who could come up with such a plan. I want a solid plan to be produced and set in stone.

If what you have told me concerning my demands for quality are already in place (virtually no pollution under any circumstance) and their is a plan which ensures very heavy demand and research for alternatives then you will most likely get me to switch gears.

We put these kind of restrictions on our companies and wonder why we can't compete in the world market....

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: ericlp
-snip-

but really...

Tho, you guys should read what the energy department said ... After that, get back to us.

A mute issue weather we did start drilling. I just think it was more PR for bush and a waste of time for the nation. And yeah, I'm a little pissed off on all the money and waste that comes from the guy.

And maybe you should do a little more reading yourself.

I posted not long ago infomation on how oil pricing and speculation etc. works, and how price sensitive oil is to demand. A little swing in either demand or supply results in big price changes.

As the article explains, projected future demand/supply is estimated/calculated and impacts price NOW. Factor in that along with the price sensitivity and the impact resulting from from opening up drilling will likely have a beneficial influence on price now. (Note: Of course must factor in projected increase in demand from Asia/China. However, the aggregate global increases in production will still always counter the increased price pressure from forecasted increased global demand. I.e., worst case is that increased forecast supply will negate increased demand and prevent prices from rapidly rising, instead of just droping current prices. Eother way, it's a benefit.)

BTW: I find it odd that some of you who refuse to believe anything said by this goverment under GWB wanna rely on the DOE now.

Fern

I think maybe you should "LEARN" how to read. I don't see anywhere that it says "speculation" ... You don't know what would have happened if we lifted the ban on OS Drilling unless you have a crystal ball? Supply and Demand does not = speculation. I believe it would have "NO EFFECT" now and we certainly "KNOW" that the push for OSD would have ZERO effect for the next 20 years and then would have little to no effect after that. Now if I were a speculator and read that you really think that news would tip me over to dump my oil stocks?? Get real!!!! Grow a few brain cells and get back to us!

So what is your point? I have a link to back up my claims, you don't. All your have is speculation on what would happen to the speculation if we started the drilling. Your argument is BOGUS....

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Bottom line: All of your concerns are currently being. Has your position changed?

I would have to see it all in writing and spend a good deal of time analyzing the details. However, if what you are saying is true then I would be more inclined to go along with this option.

I do have one last demand though. I want to ensure that this country will fight just as hard to discover an alternative energy/fuel source regardless of the outcome of drilling more domestic oil. A big fear of mine is that the demand for such a thing will temporarily decrease and along with it will be the decrease in demand and research for an alternative. Now, I am not certain what the best way would be to ensure this sort of thing. Perhaps it would involve a generous percentage of revenue that is produced by the drilling to go directly towards such research. I am not certain, but I am confident that there are enough experts out there who could come up with such a plan. I want a solid plan to be produced and set in stone.

If what you have told me concerning my demands for quality are already in place (virtually no pollution under any circumstance) and their is a plan which ensures very heavy demand and research for alternatives then you will most likely get me to switch gears.

We put these kind of restrictions on our companies and wonder why we can't compete in the world market....

The purpose of these restrictions is far more important to me than how well we compete in the world market in the short term. They may not be as important to you though. You have the right to your own opinion when it comes to priorities just as I do.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Bottom line: All of your concerns are currently being. Has your position changed?

I would have to see it all in writing and spend a good deal of time analyzing the details. However, if what you are saying is true then I would be more inclined to go along with this option.

I do have one last demand though. I want to ensure that this country will fight just as hard to discover an alternative energy/fuel source regardless of the outcome of drilling more domestic oil. A big fear of mine is that the demand for such a thing will temporarily decrease and along with it will be the decrease in demand and research for an alternative. Now, I am not certain what the best way would be to ensure this sort of thing. Perhaps it would involve a generous percentage of revenue that is produced by the drilling to go directly towards such research. I am not certain, but I am confident that there are enough experts out there who could come up with such a plan. I want a solid plan to be produced and set in stone.

If what you have told me concerning my demands for quality are already in place (virtually no pollution under any circumstance) and their is a plan which ensures very heavy demand and research for alternatives then you will most likely get me to switch gears.

We put these kind of restrictions on our companies and wonder why we can't compete in the world market....

The purpose of these restrictions is far more important to me than how well we compete in the world market in the short term. They may not be as important to you though. You have the right to your own opinion when it comes to priorities just as I do.

:thumbsup:

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Bottom line: All of your concerns are currently being. Has your position changed?

I would have to see it all in writing and spend a good deal of time analyzing the details. However, if what you are saying is true then I would be more inclined to go along with this option.

I do have one last demand though. I want to ensure that this country will fight just as hard to discover an alternative energy/fuel source regardless of the outcome of drilling more domestic oil. A big fear of mine is that the demand for such a thing will temporarily decrease and along with it will be the decrease in demand and research for an alternative. Now, I am not certain what the best way would be to ensure this sort of thing. Perhaps it would involve a generous percentage of revenue that is produced by the drilling to go directly towards such research. I am not certain, but I am confident that there are enough experts out there who could come up with such a plan. I want a solid plan to be produced and set in stone.

If what you have told me concerning my demands for quality are already in place (virtually no pollution under any circumstance) and their is a plan which ensures very heavy demand and research for alternatives then you will most likely get me to switch gears.

We put these kind of restrictions on our companies and wonder why we can't compete in the world market....

The purpose of these restrictions is far more important to me than how well we compete in the world market in the short term. They may not be as important to you though. You have the right to your own opinion when it comes to priorities just as I do.

Do you agree with this as well?
I agree with you in principle but sometimes we need some urgency in getting things done and right now is one of those times. Bringing the US solar industry to a crawl because some lizard in the middle of the friggin desert might be impacted is absurd when you consider our current "energy crisis".

The two year moritorium on solar power farms in the Mojave desert so they can do environmental studies.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: ericlp
-snip-

but really...

Tho, you guys should read what the energy department said ... After that, get back to us.

A mute issue weather we did start drilling. I just think it was more PR for bush and a waste of time for the nation. And yeah, I'm a little pissed off on all the money and waste that comes from the guy.

And maybe you should do a little more reading yourself.

I posted not long ago infomation on how oil pricing and speculation etc. works, and how price sensitive oil is to demand. A little swing in either demand or supply results in big price changes.

As the article explains, projected future demand/supply is estimated/calculated and impacts price NOW. Factor in that along with the price sensitivity and the impact resulting from from opening up drilling will likely have a beneficial influence on price now. (Note: Of course must factor in projected increase in demand from Asia/China. However, the aggregate global increases in production will still always counter the increased price pressure from forecasted increased global demand. I.e., worst case is that increased forecast supply will negate increased demand and prevent prices from rapidly rising, instead of just droping current prices. Eother way, it's a benefit.)

BTW: I find it odd that some of you who refuse to believe anything said by this goverment under GWB wanna rely on the DOE now.

Fern

I think maybe you should "LEARN" how to read. I don't see anywhere that it says "speculation" ... Which post or article are you referring to? If it's the EIA/DOE report, that's irrelevant. In my post I clearly indicated where my remarks about speculation were coming from You don't know what would have happened if we lifted the ban on OS Drilling unless you have a crystal ball? Supply and Demand does not = speculation.
That effing retarded. Of course speculators look at supply/demand and or projected supply and demand. What do you think they are basing their investment strategy on, a coin toss?

I believe it would have "NO EFFECT" now and we certainly "KNOW" that the push for OSD would have ZERO effect for the next 20 years and then would have little to no effect after that. Now if I were a speculator and read that you really think that news would tip me over to dump my oil stocks?? Get real!!!! Grow a few brain cells and get back to us!

So what is your point? I have a link to back up my claims, you don't. What good is your link? You haven't read it. All your have is speculation on what would happen to the speculation if we started the drilling. Your argument is BOGUS....

See some bolded commenst above, and:

My point is that you haven't read what the report says.

Go read it, especially since you want to keep referring to it.

we certainly "KNOW" that the push for OSD would have ZERO effect for the next 20 years

That's BS.

Look at the assumptions the EIA/DOE is making; it's effing ridiculous.

Let me help you. HERE is the report you keep referring to. Read it please, paying particularly close attention to the assumptions.

Here's one:

The EIA/DOE uses an assuimption that opening up ANWAR and both coasts plus the Gulf of Mexico will allow for an additional 18 billion barrels of oil.

With these assumptions, technically recoverable undiscovered resources in the lower 48 OCS increase to 59 billion barrels of oil and 288 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, as compared with the reference case levels of 41 billion barrels and 210 trillion cubic feet.

How much is in ANWAR alone?

ANWAR reserve estimates are in the neighborhood of 16 billion barrels, which would replace the equivalent of what we currently import from Saudi Arabia

Link

So opening up two whole coasts plus the rest of the Gulf of Mexico results in only 2 BB? (Remember ANWAR accounts for 16BB). Look, you believe this stupid shit if you wanna, but for the love of god please stop reading *summaries* of a report (which itself is demonstarable garbage) and trying to post here as if you know something abouit the topic.

Do a little research. Here I'll help you. Check HERE.

The federal government estimates the nation's outer continental shelf might hold 85.9 billion barrels of crude

The continental shelf itself is estimated to hold 86 BB of oil. Looks like the EIA forgot to include that in it's estimate. :roll:

But that's just ONE coast, how much off the West coast? How much more in the Gulf of Mexico?

Go check out the assumptions for when leases will be signed, and drilling begun. Hint, it ain't NOW like you people keep saying (again, making it damn plain you haven't even read what you attempt to quote).

Fern