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Bush claims Democrats want to "cut and run"....

Aug 1, 2006
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/30/Dems.radio.ap/index.html

Apparently not.
An Illinois congressional candidate who lost both her legs during combat in Iraq said Saturday that President Bush has no real strategy for securing the war-ravaged nation, just political talk designed to appeal to voters.
The Dems need to put this and other heros front and center. I served my country as well and believe in its core values and I am a Liberal and a registered Democrat. We need to stop the real enemies of our nation from destroying it. Voting for candidates like this hero will do just that.

"Instead of a plan or a strategy, we get shallow slogans like 'Mission Accomplished' and 'Stay the Course,"' former Army Capt. Tammy Duckworth said in the Democrats' weekly radio address. "Those slogans are calculated to win an election. But they won't help us accomplish our mission in Iraq."
You're damned right, Tammy. GO!
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,988
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Throwing up war vets as poster childs isn't going to win elections.

Dems need to lay out plans and get with the program. The "We hate Bush", "We hate Republicans" mentality has long ago worn itself out.

Incidentally, where is Ms. Duckworth's "strategy for securing the war-ravaged nation", or, for that matter, any of her fellow Dems?
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Throwing up war vets as poster childs isn't going to win elections.

Dems need to lay out plans and get with the program. The "We hate Bush", "We hate Republicans" mentality has long ago worn itself out.

Incidentally, where is Ms. Duckworth's "strategy for securing the war-ravaged nation", or, for that matter, any of her fellow Dems?
How many people and how many times must Democrats lay out plans and ideas before you Republicans quit saying repeating that same tired mantra? I already know the answer.

I know you hate Ms. Duckworth because she's represents everything you detest; a veteran that lived and a Democrat.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Incidentally, where is Ms. Duckworth's "strategy for securing the war-ravaged nation", or, for that matter, any of her fellow Dems?
Can you tell me Bush's plan? And no, sorry, 'stay the course' doesn't cut it.

 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
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Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: Pabster
Incidentally, where is Ms. Duckworth's "strategy for securing the war-ravaged nation", or, for that matter, any of her fellow Dems?
Can you tell me Bush's plan? And no, sorry, 'stay the course' doesn't cut it.

You libs are all the same. The whole concept is that we stay in Iraq until they can handle the security of their country themselves. Then we will pull out. But not a day sooner. It's nice to see someone with a backbone running the country.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
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Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: Pabster
Incidentally, where is Ms. Duckworth's "strategy for securing the war-ravaged nation", or, for that matter, any of her fellow Dems?
Can you tell me Bush's plan? And no, sorry, 'stay the course' doesn't cut it.

You libs are all the same. The whole concept is that we stay in Iraq until they can handle the security of their country themselves. Then we will pull out. But not a day sooner. It's nice to see someone with a backbone running the country.
Well, supposedly, we had the Jordanian government train nearly 300k Iraqi troops. So why are we still there? The "we stand down as the Iraqis stand up" slogan has been long worn out its welcome.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
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Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: Pabster
Incidentally, where is Ms. Duckworth's "strategy for securing the war-ravaged nation", or, for that matter, any of her fellow Dems?
Can you tell me Bush's plan? And no, sorry, 'stay the course' doesn't cut it.

You libs are all the same. The whole concept is that we stay in Iraq until they can handle the security of their country themselves. Then we will pull out. But not a day sooner. It's nice to see someone with a backbone running the country.
Bwahahahaha! See? I knew you couldn't do it.

A bumbling "uhhh well it might not be working now, let's just stay there and see what happens down the road" is the FARTHEST thing from a plan I've ever heard. Bush didn't have a plan before he invaded, and he doesn't have a plan now. I cannot BELIEVE you are accusing Democrats of having 'no plan' when OUR OWN PRESIDENT does not have one!

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I for one don't decide someone ideas should be dismissed without saying why---but Conjurs stuck on stupid about sums up GWB in just a few words---the Iraq war and VietNam are very similar---and the rethoric is about identical.

The fact is that the US never gave a damn about the Vietnamese people or its South Vietnamese government----and we lost because its government was never able to stand up so we could stand down. And the same is happening now---except we could withdraw safely from VietNam---it won't be so easy in Iraq without the dire consequences of totally destabalizing the mid-east---and the entire world economy.

And all of the same rethoric and bluster can't hide the fact that the GWB plan is not working.---and things are getting worse on a daily basis.

Stubbornly sticking to a failed plan may be called backbone by some---but its better described as stupidity----I for one do not advocate cutting and running---but we must get a better plan that clearly won't come from GWB.---its going to take an international effort---and GWB power politics won't get that job done.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,988
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
The fact is that the US never gave a damn about the Vietnamese people or its South Vietnamese government----and we lost because its government was never able to stand up so we could stand down. And the same is happening now---except we could withdraw safely from VietNam---it won't be so easy in Iraq without the dire consequences of totally destabalizing the mid-east---and the entire world economy.
No, we "lost" in Vietnam because we allowed propaganda to win. This is exactly what is being tried (again) with Iraq. PS how many people did we lose in Vietnam?

Stubbornly sticking to a failed plan may be called backbone by some---but its better described as stupidity----I for one do not advocate cutting and running---but we must get a better plan that clearly won't come from GWB.---its going to take an international effort---and GWB power politics won't get that job done.
Oh yes, an International effort. Who do you suggest we take the "plans" from? France? The rest of the world was in bed with Saddam. That is the last place I'd be looking.
 

fallensight

Senior member
Apr 12, 2006
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What plan by Bush, "stay the course"? that is not a plan. No one, on any side has a 'plan' becuase, quite frankly, there is absolutly no way to win. WInning is about the definition of what a 'win' is. The fantasy that the bushies have about what iraq would become after an invasion is an imposiblity. You cant give anyone freedom. They have to claim it for themselves.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
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Yeah Pabster, where's your side's plan? What's the GOP plan? Stand around in the kill zone until 50,000 of our troops have been killed? Oh yeah, some f'n "plan" you got there. Face it, our retard in chief led us into Iraq, f'd it up big time and now is flailing around (just like you) and attacking Democrats because things aren't working out.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,988
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Yeah Pabster, where's your side's plan? What's the GOP plan? Stand around in the kill zone until 50,000 of our troops have been killed? Oh yeah, some f'n "plan" you got there. Face it, our retard in chief led us into Iraq, f'd it up big time and now is flailing around (just like you) and attacking Democrats because things aren't working out.
So you're admitting the Dems have no plan, and attempting to obfuscate the situation by asking me?
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Yeah Pabster, where's your side's plan? What's the GOP plan? Stand around in the kill zone until 50,000 of our troops have been killed? Oh yeah, some f'n "plan" you got there. Face it, our retard in chief led us into Iraq, f'd it up big time and now is flailing around (just like you) and attacking Democrats because things aren't working out.
So you're admitting the Dems have no plan, and attempting to obfuscate the situation by asking me?
News flash: Pabster gives up, attempts to put words in other people's mouths in order to save face.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
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No, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Bush and his rabid fanboys, such as yourself, asking what the Democratic plan is when they have NO plan themselves.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,387
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Incidentally, where is Ms. Duckworth's "strategy for securing the war-ravaged nation", or, for that matter, any of her fellow Dems?
Is anything worse than 'staying the course'?
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
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Duckworth's Iraq strategy is right on her website:

Duckworth served in Iraq as a member of the Illinois National Guard. During her campaign for Congress, she has called for a much more aggressive plan than the Bush Administration has offered for training the Iraqi police and armed forces, and transferring to the Iraqis the responsibility for securing their own country.

Duckworth would begin with an immediate accounting by the Secretary of Defense of the readiness level and the training of the Iraqi forces, followed by aggressive benchmarks for progress and redeployment of U.S. troops linked to the stand up of Iraqi troops. She believes we should proceed by standing down a defined number of U.S. units for every Iraqi battalion that can be properly trained and certified as combat-ready.

A firsthand witness to the waste of our tax dollars in Iraq by big defense contractors like Halliburton, Duckworth has proposed a bipartisan task force to end the blank check for defense contractors by holding them accountable for waste, fraud and abuse ? a task that the current Congress has failed to perform.
Link
 

Zedtom

Platinum Member
Nov 23, 2001
2,146
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Tammy Duckworth has paid her dues, and what she is doing is "standing up" for war veterans who do not like the way this administration is handling the Iraq situation. She and many others are tired of veterans all being lumped into the same category that if they served in the military, then they are 100% behind the president.

The time has come for alternatives. The Bush supporters like to throw it back on the Democrats claiming they have no plan, but history shows that many disputes have had to resort to civilized negotiations when hostilities reach an impasse.

Let's stop kidding ourselves!
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,361
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link
A Plan to Hold Iraq Together
By Joseph R. Biden Jr.
Thursday, August 24, 2006; Page A21

Four months ago, in an opinion piece with Les Gelb, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, I laid out a detailed plan to keep Iraq together, protect America's interests and bring our troops home. Many experts here and in Iraq embraced our ideas. Since then, circumstances in Iraq have made the plan even more on target -- and urgent -- than when we first proposed it.

The new, central reality in Iraq is that violence between Shiites and Sunnis has surpassed the insurgency and foreign terrorists as the main security threat. Our leading civilian and military experts on Iraq -- Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and Gens. George Casey, Peter Pace and John Abizaid -- have all acknowledged that fact.

In December's elections, 90 percent of the votes went to sectarian lists. Ethnic militias increasingly are the law in Iraq. They have infiltrated the official security forces. Sectarian cleansing has begun in mixed areas, with 200,000 Iraqis fleeing their homes in recent months for fear of sectarian reprisals. Massive unemployment feeds the ranks of sectarian militias and criminal gangs.

No number of troops can solve this problem. The only way to hold Iraq together and create the conditions for our armed forces to responsibly withdraw is to give Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds incentives to pursue their interests peacefully and to forge a sustainable political settlement. Unfortunately, this administration does not have a coherent plan or any discernible strategy for success in Iraq. Its strategy is to prevent defeat and hand the problem off when it leaves office.

Meanwhile, more and more Americans, understandably frustrated, support an immediate withdrawal, even at the risk of trading a dictator for chaos and a civil war that could become a regional war.

Both are bad alternatives. The five-point plan Les Gelb and I laid out offers a better way.

First, the plan calls for maintaining a unified Iraq by decentralizing it and giving Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis their own regions. The central government would be left in charge of common interests, such as border security and the distribution of oil revenue.

Second, it would bind the Sunnis to the deal by guaranteeing them a proportionate share of oil revenue. Each group would have an incentive to maximize oil production, making oil the glue that binds the country together.

Third, the plan would create a massive jobs program while increasing reconstruction aid -- especially from the oil-rich Gulf states -- but tying it to the protection of minority rights.

Fourth, it would convene an international conference that would produce a regional nonaggression pact and create a Contact Group to enforce regional commitments.

Fifth, it would begin the phased redeployment of U.S. forces this year and withdraw most of them by the end of 2007, while maintaining a small follow-on force to keep the neighbors honest and to strike any concentration of terrorists.

This plan is consistent with Iraq's constitution, which already provides for the country's 18 provinces to join together in regions, with their own security forces and control over most day-to-day issues. This plan is the only idea on the table for dealing with the militias, which are likely to retreat to their respective regions instead of engaging in acts of violence. This plan is consistent with a strong central government that has clearly defined responsibilities. Indeed, it provides an agenda for that government, whose mere existence will not end sectarian violence. This plan is not partition -- in fact, it may be the only way to prevent violent partition and preserve a unified Iraq.

To be sure, this plan presents real challenges, especially with regard to large cities with mixed populations. We would maintain Baghdad as a federal city, belonging to no one region. And we would require international peacekeepers for other mixed cities to support local security forces and further protect minorities. The example of Bosnia is illustrative, if not totally analogous. Ten years ago, Bosnia was being torn apart by ethnic cleansing. The United States stepped in decisively with the Dayton Accords to keep the country whole by, paradoxically, dividing it into ethnic federations. We even allowed Muslims, Croats and Serbs to retain separate armies. With the help of U.S. troops and others, Bosnians have lived a decade in peace. Now they are strengthening their central government and disbanding their separate armies.

At best, the course we're on has no end in sight. At worst, it leads to a terrible civil war and possibly a regional war. This plan offers a way to bring our troops home, protect our security interests and preserve Iraq as a unified country. Those who reject this plan out of hand must answer one simple question: What is your alternative?

The writer is a senator from Delaware and the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,197
2,803
136
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Woops. There goes every single 'Democrats don't have a plan' claim.
Doesn't matter if there is a better plan or not IMHO, most seem to vote a straight party ticket. Here in Fl. it appears Charlie Crist is as good as gov. leading the Dem. by 15% in the last poll I saw. The incumbent protection plan+voter support for party candidates= The political landscape won't change much come election time. That is my prediction, that the rep. control of gov will continue despite the fact that the people consistantly express strong majority disapproval of the pres. and legislative branches in polling.

As the Talking Heads lyrics pronounced :music:Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.:music:
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: Pabster
Incidentally, where is Ms. Duckworth's "strategy for securing the war-ravaged nation", or, for that matter, any of her fellow Dems?
Can you tell me Bush's plan? And no, sorry, 'stay the course' doesn't cut it.

You libs are all the same. The whole concept is that we stay in Iraq until they can handle the security of their country themselves. Then we will pull out. But not a day sooner. It's nice to see someone with a backbone running the country.
And your refering to the man who was AWOL from his NG unit and who wouldn't take his flight medical as having "backbone"?? Back off on the kool-aid a little.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,512
3,264
126
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Woops. There goes every single 'Democrats don't have a plan' claim.
I don't see how you can call holding defense contractors responsible for waste fraud and abuse a plan. That will just ruin everything.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
0
0
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Yeah Pabster, where's your side's plan? What's the GOP plan? Stand around in the kill zone until 50,000 of our troops have been killed? Oh yeah, some f'n "plan" you got there. Face it, our retard in chief led us into Iraq, f'd it up big time and now is flailing around (just like you) and attacking Democrats because things aren't working out.
So you're admitting the Dems have no plan, and attempting to obfuscate the situation by asking me?
News flash: Pabster gives up, attempts to put words in other people's mouths in order to save face.
It looks like PAbster has a bad case of "foot in mouth" disease to me. :D
 

catnap1972

Platinum Member
Aug 10, 2000
2,607
0
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Woops. There goes every single 'Democrats don't have a plan' claim.
I don't see how you can call holding defense contractors responsible for waste fraud and abuse a plan. That will just ruin everything.
It's pretty clear that Aisengard is a capitalism-hating terrorist!
 

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