Bush Administration quietly pushed for a cut in military pay

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/local/8005752.htm

Given the rising demands on U.S. forces from a global war on terror, including long, arduous tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, Defense officials will ask an independent commission to assess whether current pay and benefits are right for attracting and retaining a quality force.

The Department of Defense plans to announce a seven-member commission of outside pay and personnel experts to study the sometimes confusing mix of pay, allowances, bonuses, special pay and non-cash benefits that has evolved out of the Cold War era of large standing forces.

The adequacy of Reserve and National Guard compensation also will be reviewed given the greater reliance today on those components.

The commission could begin work as early as April and make recommendations to the secretary of defense by early 2005.

Making the pay system more flexible to compensate warriors battling terrorists and protecting the homeland will be a goal, an official said. Another will be ensuring balance between pay and non-cash benefits and between current and future compensation such as retirement.

Defense officials say obvious weaknesses in pay have become apparent during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. An example is the lingering controversy over Congress' decision last April to raise the monthly Family Separation Allowance by $150 and Imminent Danger Pay by $75. Lawmakers believed the hikes were the best way to boost pay quickly for deployed forces and mobilized reservists. The increases were made retroactive to October 2002 and were to expire by October 2003.

Defense officials opposed the increases as inefficient for rewarding combat forces. Though lacking a ready alternative, the Bush administration quietly urged Congress to allow the FSA and IDP increases to expire. Democrats criticized the administration for trying to roll back pay for troops at war.

By August, the political heat was so high Defense officials held a press conference to dismiss as "absurd" any notion that they would support a drop in pay for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. There just wasn't a solid plan yet to better target the increases. David Chu, undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness, noted that the raise in FSA, from

$100 a month to $250 a month, went to tens of thousands of members not assigned to combat areas, including those on routine sea deployments and receiving stateside training. The IDP raise went to service members in scores of designated danger areas around the world.

Another problem with FSA, which is designed to ease extra expenses on a family like home repairs or child care when a parent is absent, is it doesn't benefit unmarried troops, even in Iraq, Chu said.

The department promised to give Congress a replacement pay plan, aimed more precisely at personnel serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. It would involve higher Hardship Duty Pay, which can vary in amount between arduous assignments, and offset a rollback in FSA and IDP in combat areas.

As 2003 came to close, however, Congress voted just to extend last April's FSA and IDP increases at least through December 2004.

Defense officials had considered proposing another year-long extension so the pay commission could tackle the FSA/IDP issue. Instead they decided the department needed to act sooner. Defense officials began shaping a new proposal and softening their former opposition.

The department is expected soon to recommend keeping Imminent Danger Pay at $225 a month, making permanent last April's $75 increase.

On FSA, the department likely will recommend only a partial rollback and will protect the pay of forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The old FSA rate of $100 a month had not been adjusted since 1991 and deserved to be raised. But $150 probably was too high. So Defense officials are expected to recommend some lowering of the current $250 rate.

For troops in Iraq and Afghanistan as of Dec. 31, the department might recommend that current FSA recipients be grandfathered from a cut until they get back home.

The whole flap might have been avoided if the military had had a more flexible pay for troops in combat areas.

The Army, for example, needs to keep some units in Iraq beyond the promised 12-month rotation date so it wants to provide them extra compensation. Charles Abell, Chu's principal deputy, responded Jan. 20 with a new incentive package for "involuntary" tour extensions of up to $1,000 more a month. For that, Abell had to combine two existing pays.

Hardship Duty Pay, he said, can be raised by $200 a month to the reach the $300 ceiling set in law. Also, members involuntarily extended in Iraq will be eligible to choose between $800 a month in the new but little used Assignment Incentive Pay (AIP), or they can select instead a follow-on "stabilized tour" from which they can't be deployed for at least as long as their tour of service in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Pay packages to reward "voluntary" extensions in Iraq "of three, six and 12 months" also are under review. Defense officials also will seek authority to pay up to $1,000 a month in Hardship Duty Pay. Long term, HDP could provide the kind of targeted pay flexibility Congress and the department lacked last April.
 

nutxo

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
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Nice sentence you picked out of the article.

Maybe you need to rea dthe whole thing to put it in context.

BTW, Kerry voted 11 times out of 12 against military pay raises. He probably would like to see it like Carter era military when military families were often on welfare...
 

UltraQuiet

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Sep 22, 2001
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Your thread title is ignorant, partisan, mcowenesque bullsh!t. It's a good try though and I'm sure it'll have the rest of the hypocrites in here feigning some concern over military pay.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Originally posted by: nutxo
Nice sentence you picked out of the article.

Maybe you need to rea dthe whole thing to put it in context.

BTW, Kerry voted 11 times out of 12 against military pay raises. He probably would like to see it like Carter era military when military families were often on welfare...

rolleye.gif


It's the only section of the article that dealt with the topic of the Bush Administration. What else was I supposed to highlight?

rolleye.gif
 

Sspidie99

Member
Feb 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Your thread title is ignorant, partisan, mcowenesque bullsh!t. It's a good try though and I'm sure it'll have the rest of the hypocrites in here feigning some concern over military pay.

More rhetoric. Please do not criticize without any substance. I thought we've all out grew the "you're a fat head" statements.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: Sspidie99
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Your thread title is ignorant, partisan, mcowenesque bullsh!t. It's a good try though and I'm sure it'll have the rest of the hypocrites in here feigning some concern over military pay.

More rhetoric. Please do not criticize without any substance. I thought we've all out grew the "you're a fat head" statements.

The rhetoric is the thread title not my post pointing out he is wrong. When I need some pointers on when and how to criticize, noob, I'll smack you on top of the head and let you know. This particular topic has been done a couple of times here. The "pay cut" argument was bullsh!t then and it's bullsh!t now. Got it? Good.
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
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I don't see how it could be anymore clear than this.

Though lacking a ready alternative, the Bush administration quietly urged Congress to allow the FSA and IDP increases to expire. Democrats criticized the administration for trying to roll back pay for troops at war.

 
May 10, 2001
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An example is the lingering controversy over Congress' decision last April to raise the monthly Family Separation Allowance by $150 and Imminent Danger Pay by $75.
$100 a month to $250 a month, went to tens of thousands of members not assigned to combat areas, including those on routine sea deployments and receiving stateside training.

yea, it looks like a political hot-potato, but it also looks like it'd be a good idea to let it go and give added funds to our men on the ground in a war-zone, not some bloke out to sea.

but then if you bold the words you want people to read and ignore the facts then you're fine

if you want a thoughtful discussion try defining FSA and IDP before you decide it's perfect as it stands and it would be "quietly pushed for a cut in military pay" to want to change it.

or is partisan mindless propaganda the only thing you're looking for here?
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
I don't see how it could be anymore clear than this.

Though lacking a ready alternative, the Bush administration quietly urged Congress to allow the FSA and IDP increases to expire. Democrats criticized the administration for trying to roll back pay for troops at war.

The first step to overcoming a problem with reading comprehension is admitting you have a problem. You're almost there.

The department promised to give Congress a replacement pay plan, aimed more precisely at personnel serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. It would involve higher Hardship Duty Pay, which can vary in amount between arduous assignments, and offset a rollback in FSA and IDP in combat areas.
 
May 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: AndrewR
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
I don't see how it could be anymore clear than this.

Though lacking a ready alternative, the Bush administration quietly urged Congress to allow the FSA and IDP increases to expire. Democrats criticized the administration for trying to roll back pay for troops at war.

The first step to overcoming a problem with reading comprehension is admitting you have a problem. You're almost there.

The department promised to give Congress a replacement pay plan, aimed more precisely at personnel serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. It would involve higher Hardship Duty Pay, which can vary in amount between arduous assignments, and offset a rollback in FSA and IDP in combat areas.

Conjur, you should have lost some respect from any credible person on this board by posting a title like this considering the facts of the article. You should change the intellectually dishonest title.
 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
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I remember when Reagan disallowed unemployment benefits to honorably discharged veterans.

My brother was one of them.



 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
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"The first step to overcoming a problem with reading comprehension is admitting you have a problem. You're almost there.


Quote

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The department promised to give Congress a replacement pay plan, aimed more precisely at personnel serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. It would involve higher Hardship Duty Pay, which can vary in amount between arduous assignments, and offset a rollback in FSA and IDP in combat areas."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In other words, a cut in pay for some military. Is that Bush's position ?

If it is, I don't like it. I think we need to raise military pay.


 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"The first step to overcoming a problem with reading comprehension is admitting you have a problem. You're almost there.


Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The department promised to give Congress a replacement pay plan, aimed more precisely at personnel serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. It would involve higher Hardship Duty Pay, which can vary in amount between arduous assignments, and offset a rollback in FSA and IDP in combat areas."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In other words, a cut in pay for some military. Is that Bush's position ?

If it is, I don't like it. I think we need to raise military pay.

The military is a job, and with any job, pay needs to reflect the work being done. Giving large amounts of money to some people when it is intended to compensate those doing more dangerous work in more dangerous areas is not logical. So, yes, it amounts to a cut in SPECIAL pay to CERTAIN people to more accurately reflect the intent of the special pays to begin with.

Don't frame the issue a certain way to make it politically damaging to the President. Further, and more importantly, President Bush has done more to raise military pay than anyone in the military could have hoped for. There have been large pay raises at the end of the year and even in the middle of the year in 2001. There have been increases in hazardous duty pay, and there have been increases across the board in the Basic Allowance for Housing. President Bush has been VERY kind to the military in terms of pay, and your blithe statements which seem to imply the opposite go far in exposing ignorance. That's not a pejorative statement, just an honest one.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
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"President Bush has been VERY kind to the military in terms of pay, and your blithe statements which seem to imply the opposite go far in exposing ignorance. That's not a pejorative statement, just an honest one. "


Excuse me sir, but I'm entitled to my opinions about the matter; I personally have no desire to exchange insults with you, but if that is your preference, lets do it face to face when you get back from Japan.


Tell me, under Pres. Bush's preferred plan, what pay would the 17 sailors who died on the USS Cole be receiving ?
 

nutxo

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
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Hazardous duty pay was always considered a bonus when I was in. Shouldnt the title be, Bush asks to cut bonuses for people who dont earn them?
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
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Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"President Bush has been VERY kind to the military in terms of pay, and your blithe statements which seem to imply the opposite go far in exposing ignorance. That's not a pejorative statement, just an honest one. "


Excuse me sir, but I'm entitled to my opinions about the matter; I personally have no desire to exchange insults with you, but if that is your preference, lets do it face to face when you get back from Japan.


Tell me, under Pres. Bush's preferred plan, what pay would the 17 sailors who died on the USS Cole be receiving ?

Where's the insult? Contrary to popular opinion, "ignorant" is not an insult -- it merely means "lack of knowledge". There's no mano-a-mano bravado needed. Also, while you can have an opinion all you want, the hard facts are simple: the Bush administration has raised military pay considerably over the last 3 years. The Left's dishonest attempt to portray the Bush administration in a completely opposite light is a disservice to everyone wearing a uniform, particularly from the party whose administration neglected military pay for eight years. Ask Ultra Quiet for his views since he served throughout the entire timeframe we're discussing.

The sailors who died, under President Clinton incidentally, are entitled to SGLI benefits if they signed up for it and to my knowledge are entitled to a death benefit which was recently doubled by the Bush administration from $6,000 to $12,000 (may be incorrect amount, but I know it was doubled) to cover funeral costs. Aside from that, I believe there are some other benefits, but I hope to never collect them.

The sick part is that even though they and other servicemembers have died at the hands of terrorists (Marine barracks, Khobar Towers, USS Cole, others), they do not receive the $1.whatever million that the World Trade Center survivors received. That disturbs me whenever I think about it.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: nutxo
Hazardous duty pay was always considered a bonus when I was in. Shouldnt the title be, Bush asks to cut bonuses for people who dont earn them?

Being in the Military with the Dub at the Helm should be considered Hazardous Duty
 

TheGameIs21

Golden Member
Apr 23, 2001
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: nutxo
Hazardous duty pay was always considered a bonus when I was in. Shouldnt the title be, Bush asks to cut bonuses for people who dont earn them?

Being in the Military with the Dub at the Helm should be considered Hazardous Duty

And someday red, you'll be able to add to a conversation by saying something intelligent. Until then, you're childish remarks are a great source of entertainment. Kinda like watching the little babbies pee themselves on Americas Funniest Home Video's at least the learn control eventually.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: TheGameIs21
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: nutxo
Hazardous duty pay was always considered a bonus when I was in. Shouldnt the title be, Bush asks to cut bonuses for people who dont earn them?

Being in the Military with the Dub at the Helm should be considered Hazardous Duty

And someday red, you'll be able to add to a conversation by saying something intelligent. Until then, you're childish remarks are a great source of entertainment. Kinda like watching the little babbies pee themselves on Americas Funniest Home Video's at least the learn control eventually.
My aren't you a clever little fella.
rolleye.gif
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Hazardous duty pay was always considered a bonus when I was in.
Yeah, I always saved a buttload while deployed to various exotic destinations around the globe.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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"The Left's dishonest attempt to portray the Bush administration in a completely opposite light is a disservice to everyone wearing a uniform, particularly from the party whose administration neglected military pay for eight years. "
_____________________________________________________________________________________________


"A centerpiece of the plan includes the biggest pay hike for troops since 1982 and a restoration of pension benefits cut in 1986, all part of an effort to stem a mounting exodus of people from military ranks. Clinton proposed a 4.4 percent across-the-board pay increase." source

 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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"The sick part is that even though they and other servicemembers have died at the hands of terrorists (Marine barracks, Khobar Towers, USS Cole, others), they do not receive the $1.whatever million that the World Trade Center survivors received. That disturbs me whenever I think about it. "


I agree with your sentiment, but there is a difference between attacking military targets and civilian targets, even when the attacks don't meet what we consider acceptable conditions of declaration of war.


 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
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Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"The Left's dishonest attempt to portray the Bush administration in a completely opposite light is a disservice to everyone wearing a uniform, particularly from the party whose administration neglected military pay for eight years. "
_____________________________________________________________________________________________


"A centerpiece of the plan includes the biggest pay hike for troops since 1982 and a restoration of pension benefits cut in 1986, all part of an effort to stem a mounting exodus of people from military ranks. Clinton proposed a 4.4 percent across-the-board pay increase." source

Some juicy quotes from same article:

"...foreshadowed a political battle over how much will be enough to repair signs of eroding military readiness, and who will be able to claim credit for redressing defense shortfalls in next year's elections..."

"The battle over defense spending is not likely to be limited to military pay. As sizable a boost as Clinton is proposing, it falls $36 billion short of what the military service chiefs told Congress last autumn was necessary to fund all their requirements."

Finally, here's definitive proof of the problems under Clinton: Military pay raises by year since 1972.

Average pay raise for Clinton years: 2.85% (inflation average 2.575%)
Average pay raise for Bush years: 4.875% (inflation average 1.9% [only two years' data available])

Low percentage pay raise for Clinton: 2.2% (1994, inflation rate for that year: 2.6%)
Low percentage pay raise for Bush: 3.9% (2003 and 2004, inflation not available)

Also keep in mind that the economy under Clinton saw some of the biggest growth ever while the economy inherited by Bush was in recession. Now does it make sense why those in the military are fairly strongly anti-Clinton and anti-Democrat?