Burning audio cds - does speed affect quality?

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
13,507
3
81
Even though I have upgraded nearly every other component in my system, I am still using my 5 year old HP 8100i 4x CD burner to burn CDs. Most of the CDs that I burn are audio (I like to keep copies in my car instead of originals). Normally I burn audio CDs at 2x speed, and the quality seems decent.

I am considering upgrading my burner, but I'm wondering if my audio CD quality will suffer if I burn at 24x or even 40x. Will I run into more compatibility issues with players if I burn at these speeds? Obviously data CDs should be fine, but audio CDs are much more sensitive to errrors. Any thoughts on this?
 

Horsepower

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
963
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When I upgraded my burner and started burning audio cds at a higher speed, the quality remained the same BUT they stopped working on both home units and one car unit. I now still burn them at a slow speed.
 

osmononame

Member
Apr 26, 2001
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Hi, i have the same problem but when i burn cds at high speeds my hifi plays them fine but when i stick them in the car cd changer then it starts to skip. I now copy all audio at 8 speed even though my writer can do 48. Hope this helps,

osmononame
 

Sundog

Lifer
Nov 20, 2000
12,342
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Why would the speed make a difference? What is being left out/added/changed that causes this to happen?
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
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tbqhwy.com
i murn all my cds at 40x audio and data. the audio ones play fine in everything. i burn MP3 CDs also cause my car plays them and they work fine also
 

bozo1

Diamond Member
May 21, 2001
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With my 16X Plextor, I had to burn my audio CD's slower if I wanted them to play everywhere. (car especially) When I got my 40X Lite-On, I burn at 40X and my stuff plays everywhere when using Fuji (Taiyo Yuden made) media. Occasionally, using other media I would have to slow my burn down if I wanted it to play in the car.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
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Originally posted by: Sundog
Why would the speed make a difference? What is being left out/added/changed that causes this to happen?

I imagine it might have to do with more vibration caused by higher rotational speeds. Personally, the ONLY problem I've noticed with burning at high speeds is when you exceed the rated speed of the media. CD media does not "overclock" well.;)
 

ScrapSilicon

Lifer
Apr 14, 2001
13,625
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Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: Sundog
Why would the speed make a difference? What is being left out/added/changed that causes this to happen?

I imagine it might have to do with more vibration caused by higher rotational speeds. Personally, the ONLY problem I've noticed with burning at high speeds is when you exceed the rated speed of the media. CD media does not "overclock" well.;)

it is usually media problem like bozo1 said
Originally posted by: bozo1
With my 16X Plextor, I had to burn my audio CD's slower if I wanted them to play everywhere. (car especially) When I got my 40X Lite-On, I burn at 40X and my stuff plays everywhere when using Fuji (Taiyo Yuden made) media. Occasionally, using other media I would have to slow my burn down if I wanted it to play in the car.
I also believe slower allows for the laser to do its work better...
rolleye.gif
but that's just how I see it and as always ymmv...
 

waylman

Diamond Member
Apr 4, 2003
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some older cd players won't play anything if it is burned over 12X. If you burn your music at 12X you'll be ok and will not lose any quality.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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I once installed a 24x burner in anolder couples rig so they could compile cds for their trips. They called me back the next day to say the burned cd would not play in the player in their van. I had given them a handful of Imation cdrs. I had 7 other brands on hand and made a music cd on one of each. Two other brands would not work, but 5 did, all burned at 24x. I would guess that the lasers are weaker on older cd players and some cdr dye layers are less transparent. Burning at slower speed may also produce a deeper or more reflective pit in the media.
 

Ardan

Senior member
Mar 9, 2003
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I agree with the other posts, it is definitely the media. I have a 12x TDK VeloCD in this machine and a 48x TDK VeloCD in the other machine and the 48x media I use doesn't cause any of the problems people report on here sometimes. I can play those CDs anywhere and there are no problems. We usually buy Memorex or PNY CDRs from Best Buy and they definitely suit our needs.
 

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
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Sweeping aside all the good advice about speed affecting compatibility, the basic question is - does speed of recording/burning affect the sound quality in the final product? The answer is - no it does not. Quality is binary - it is a faithful repro of the original or it is nothing.
 

vss1980

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: corky-g
Sweeping aside all the good advice about speed affecting compatibility, the basic question is - does speed of recording/burning affect the sound quality in the final product? The answer is - no it does not. Quality is binary - it is a faithful repro of the original or it is nothing.

Actually that isn't true.... CD's use a few genius techniques to ensure that a few missed bits do not stop the CD playback having a problem. Some people have now heard of the EFM encoding used on CD's due to its importance in producing copies of protected discs, but few really understand why EFM encoding is used and the advantage it gives.

EFM encoding does actually provide a level of immunity to bits missing from the data stream. EFM meaning 'Eight-to-Fourteen-Modulation' replaces every possible 8-bit sequence with a 14-bit sequence instead. The main purpose of this is for laser tracking.... the laser would never be able to follow the disc track if this encoding wasn't used and a string of bits was all 0's, it relies on the fact that there is always a regular sequence of pits to follow.
In adding this redundancy, it also adds a small level of error correction in itself.... if 1 bit out of the 14 is wrong, as its decoded down to 8-bits, the decoder could have a pretty good guess at what the correct bit sequence is, but remember its a guess. If it is a small error it will most likely get it right, but it could actually mean that it can gets it wrong also.

There is another error correction technique used on CD's which relies on the fact that different parts of each sound sample are not stored one after the other in order so that if one section is misread, it will not impact a whole sample. The error correction system also tries to combat this, but of course is not infallible.

The problem with writing at faster speeds is that the quality of the pits created on the CD becomes less 'sharp' (for want of a better way of putting it). The media has less time to be formed and is exposed to a shorter burst of laser light whilst rotating at a higher speed....... this is why some car CD players or other players cant read some discs. Of course, the quality of the media is important, but write speed is a critical factor.

So, as to answer the quote I've used:
There is a sound quality difference... find someone who has a good quality sound system that has good balance across the widest possible frequency range, good CD player and make a good variation of a CD burned on different media at different speeds and then see for yourself... you may be surprised at how much some things can vary whilst still being technically identical.

EDIT: Oh, as a side note, for those having problems with CDR's in their car systems, try using a CDR which uses a Gold reflection layer and a PhtaloCyanine (sorry if spelt wrong) dye layer. It may not suit everyone's players but I've found this to be the best on problem hardware ;)