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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
19,250
10,056
136
There you go again. Tell me: How can you possibly deny these "dirty tricks" while you perpetuate them?


This is shameful.

"Both sides" does not mean white-supremacists and anti-white-supremacists. He could not have been clearer about that when he said ""There were very fine people on both sides, & I'm not talking about the Neo-nazis and white supremacists because they should be condemned totally."

He was obviously talking about people supporting the statue and people opposing it. You are the one inferring a subject that is completely incompatible with the words that were actually spoken.

Regardless. The "dirty trick" was claiming that he never condemned white-supremacists and continues to refuse to when he clearly did condemn them. Continuing to deny it or arguing about the "fine people" part shows that you are unwilling to admit that the dirty trick is real, which doesn't look good for you.


You linked to the dirty trick and I gave you his actual words along with recorded video of him saying it. Cry more.

Trump called their mischaracterization of his Coronavirus response a hoax. Thanks for perpetuating the very same dirty trick I pointed out to you. You are making my point for me and undermining yours while demonstrating how clueless you were to openly ask for examples as if they didn't exist.



There is is again, folks. let us bask in the irony of it!
I see the disinformation campaign is ramping up in the final weeks.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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So this thread has devolved into a shithole of whataboutisms and both-sideisms

Sad.
I agree it is sad. These are meaningless distractions.
If the President felt he was quoted wrong regarding very fine people he could clearly state what he meant or god forbid apologize for choosing confusing words.
If the President felt his words regarding the danger of Corona virus were misunderstood, he could have clarified them and choose more specific words.


He has not.
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,477
1,518
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Yes. I am not a fan of Trump's response to Coronavirus. I'm not a fan of Trump. I voted against him. Doesn't change the fact that it is a dirty trick to go on claiming that he called it a hoax.

Clearly, fskimospy asked what dirty tricks there were against Donald Trump and clearly that was one of them making it an appropriate answer to his question. It doesn't mean I am defending Trump's Coronavirus response.
At least the trump covid haox thing is directionally accurate. The dirty tricks played by the right are orders of magnitude beyond the left.

Case in point, it looks probable that rudy and bannon concocted the subject of this thread.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,947
729
126
So claiming he did not denounce white-supremacists when he did is kosher with you?
In that speech and on many other occasions he talks out of both sides of his month. He intentionally sends mixed messages on that subject and many others.

I agree. Doesn't change the fact that he very specifically called the characterization of his response a hoax and not the virus, despite continued claims that he called the virus a hoax. Accept it.
Accept what? I heard him clearly the first time I heard that.

You fell for another lie.
Wrong. I never cared about the that video and it didn't not impact my opinion of stump at all. I realized he is a sleazeball decades ago. I am however that people with a disability love that the president on two occasions (have there been more) used that gesture.

No. There are many "if so... so what?" type statements in this very thread the represent the duplicity I'm talking about.
Are you sure you aren't a trump supporter?
Again, the claim that he did not condemn white-supremacists is false. I also agree that he is a blathering, incoherent, idiot who contradicts himself but that is beside the point. fskimospy asked for an example of dirty tricks and I obliged. The claim that he failed to condemn white-supremacists and called them "very fine people" is verifiably false.


...and, again, if you thought Trump was mocking the reporter's disability, you are demonstrably wrong and you demonstrably did fall for another lie. I used the word "demonstrably" before but you continued to deny it ("wrong") so I guess I'll have to demonstrate:

Clearly, that is how he routinely characterizes others as flusterednand stumbling over their words to respond to him.

It doesn't matter if you never cared for the video. What mattered is that you thought video proof of him doing it existed and made a post assuming it did. It even illicited agreement from fskimospy. It perfectly demonstrates that the hoax AKA "dirty trick" is still alive and well. You were tricked into perpetuating it so I was not "wrong" to say that you fell for it.

Time for a little self-reflection, I hope.
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,477
1,518
106
Again, the claim that he did not condemn white-supremacists is false. I also agree that he is a blathering, incoherent, idiot who contradicts himself but that is beside the point. fskimospy asked for an example of dirty tricks and I obliged. The claim that he failed to condemn white-supremacists and called them "very fine people" is verifiably false.


...and, again, if you thought Trump was mocking the reporter's disability, you are demonstrably wrong and you demonstrably did fall for another lie. I used the word "demonstrably" before but you continued to deny it ("wrong") so I guess I'll have to demonstrate:

Clearly, that is how he routinely characterizes others as flusterednand stumbling over their words to respond to him.

It doesn't matter if you never cared for the video. What mattered is that you thought video proof of him doing it existed and made a post assuming it did. It even illicited agreement from fskimospy. It perfectly demonstrates that the hoax AKA "dirty trick" is still alive and well. You were tricked into perpetuating it so I was not "wrong" to say that you fell for it.

Time for a little self-reflection, I hope.
Wow you entirely missed my point. Him acting like a disabled person no matter who the target is itself a horrible act. But keep defending him.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,947
729
126
If the President felt he was quoted wrong regarding very fine people he could clearly state what he meant or god forbid apologize for choosing confusing words.
If the President felt his words regarding the danger of Corona virus were misunderstood, he could have clarified them and choose more specific words.


He has not.
Agreed... somewhat. I mean, he denies it often enough but seems completely incapable of actually correcting the record. His September debate performance proves it. What a moron!

Still, we expect our media to be trustworthy and to check the record for themselves and it seems they'd rather perpetuate the dirty tricks.

At least the trump covid haox thing is directionally accurate. The dirty tricks played by the right are orders of magnitude beyond the left.

Case in point, it looks probable that rudy and bannon concocted the subject of this thread.
I agree. Trump downplaying this deserves severe criticism, but so often the criticism devolves into "he called it a hoax!" when he definitely didn't.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,947
729
126
Wow you entirely missed my point. Him acting like a disabled person no matter who the target is itself a horrible act. But keep defending him.
He's not acting disabled. He's acting cornered. Afraid. Nervous. Flustered. He's mocking their inability to respond to him to imply that he has them trapped.

The reason you think otherwise is the same reason everyone thought they saw something else in the Covington Catholic kids... and many continued hating on them after the truth was out. It was framed that way (mocking a disability) and now you can't unsee it.
 
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zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,477
1,518
106
He's not acting disabled. He's acting cornered. Afraid. He's mocking their inability to respond to him to imply that he has them trapped.

The reason you think otherwise is the same reason everyone thought they saw something else in the Covington Catholic kids... and many continued hating on them after the truth was out. It was framed that way (mocking a disability) and now you can't unsee it.
No at the one minute mark is exactly how kids mock disabled people. He isn't the first to do that and sadly will not be the last. But keep defending him.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,286
2,000
136
At what point do you think people are compelled to act?
Too late is the only answer I have. Lincoln is known for leading the Union through the civil war, but I believe he should be known for trying to avoid it. Thankfully he still remembered to love his neighbor. One thing he was terrible at was predicting how history would be written. I wish Barr was around back then to tell him the winners get to write history. He missed a big opportunity.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,947
729
126
No at the one minute mark is exactly how kids mock disabled people. He isn't the first to do that and sadly will not be the last. But keep defending him.
Come on now.

I am not defending him. I am telling you that it was a dirty trick to claim he was knowingly making fun of that reporter's disability because fskimospy specifically (cluelessly) asked for someone to point out dirty tricks used against Trump and you seemed to take issue with that one. You forced me to defend myself.

Listen to his words. He is clearly characterizing them as flustered and unable to answer. He didn't punctuate it with derps. Just made them sound like they stammered and couldn't form an appropriate response.

Amusing since he's usually the blithering idiot.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,096
18,864
136
There you go again. Tell me: How can you possibly deny these "dirty tricks" while you perpetuate them?
I’m genuinely confused as to what you don’t understand here. Taking someone’s public statements and making reasonable, if mean interpretations of them is not the same as colluding with hostile foreign powers.

So again, are you just pretending to be this ignorant?


This is shameful.

"Both sides" does not mean white-supremacists and anti-white-supremacists. He could not have been clearer about that when he said ""There were very fine people on both sides, & I'm not talking about the Neo-nazis and white supremacists because they should be condemned totally."

He was obviously talking about people supporting the statue and people opposing it. You are the one inferring a subject that is completely incompatible with the words that were actually spoken.
It was literally a white supremacist rally. You want to claim he was referring to the non-white supremacists at the white supremacist rally. While you are certainly welcome to do so surely you understand why other people would decline to share in your delusion and why it is not a ‘dirty trick’ to not embrace obvious lies.

Regardless. The "dirty trick" was claiming that he never condemned white-supremacists and continues to refuse to when he clearly did condemn them. Continuing to deny it or arguing about the "fine people" part shows that you are unwilling to admit that the dirty trick is real, which doesn't look good for you.
Ironically you are now engaging in exactly the sort of ‘dirty tricks’ you condemn - misrepresenting what other people say. They don’t say he NEVER condemns them, they say he equivocates and is reluctant to condemn them, which is true.

I would be interested to hear your explanation of your behavior here - would you consider apologizing for your ‘dirty trick’?

You linked to the dirty trick and I gave you his actual words along with recorded video of him saying it. Cry more.

Trump called their mischaracterization of his Coronavirus response a hoax. Thanks for perpetuating the very same dirty trick I pointed out to you. You are making my point for me and undermining yours while demonstrating how clueless you were to openly ask for examples as if they didn't exist.

There is is again, folks. let us bask in the irony of it!
Lol - exactly my point. Your ‘dirty tricks’ are a mix of accurately describing Trump’s actions and then being modestly mean to him in their interpretation. On the other hand we have collusion with hostile foreign powers.

Even worse, in your desperation you engaged in exactly the kind of behavior you’re condemning. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
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zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,477
1,518
106
Come on now.

I am not defending him. I am telling you that it was a dirty trick to claim he was knowingly making fun of that reporter's disability because fskimospy specifically (cluelessly) asked for someone to point out dirty tricks used against Trump and you seemed to take issue with that one. You forced me to defend myself.

Listen to his words. He is clearly characterizing them as flustered and unable to answer. He didn't punctuate it with derps. Just made them sound like they stammered and couldn't form an appropriate response.

Amusing since he's usually the blithering idiot.
I already told you I give exactly two effs about that video but seem hell bent on defending trump.

Back to the topic, what dirty trick has the left played that is anywhere close to as big as the attack on hunter? And the hunter thing is just one of the insane tricks from the right.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,096
18,864
136
Too late is the only answer I have. Lincoln is known for leading the Union through the civil war, but I believe he should be known for trying to avoid it. Thankfully he still remembered to love his neighbor. One thing he was terrible at was predicting how history would be written. I wish Barr was around back then to tell him the winners get to write history. He missed a big opportunity.
Lincoln may have loved his neighbor but when the chips were down he engaged in a ruthless campaign that killed them en masse.

I am not suggesting we do this, but the answer can’t be to always resist only when it is too late.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,096
18,864
136
I already told you I give exactly two effs about that video but seem hell bent on defending trump.

Back to the topic, what dirty trick has the left played that is anywhere close to as big as the attack on hunter? And the hunter thing is just one of the insane tricks from the right.
As far as I can tell the equivalence is to take his ambiguous statements in an uncharitable way.

So ‘work with hostile intelligence agencies’ = ‘be mean to Trump’.
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,477
1,518
106
As far as I can tell the equivalence is to take his ambiguous statements in an uncharitable way.

So ‘work with hostile intelligence agencies’ = ‘be mean to Trump’.
Or one could with the old fox news Hillary + Steele dossier BS.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,096
18,864
136
Or one could with the old fox news Hillary + Steele dossier BS.
I think publishing the Steele dossier would be the closest to a ‘dirty trick’ that exists, considering it was unverified information collected with the purpose of discrediting an opponent. The things @CZroe mentioned are downright delusional.

That was compiled during the campaign though and my point was mainly that Trump is such a fountain of corruption in public that employing these dirty tricks is unnecessary.

I mean the guy extorted an allied government to investigate his domestic political enemies and then published a transcript confessing to it. What are you going to dig up that are worse than that?
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,286
2,000
136
Lincoln may have loved his neighbor but when the chips were down he engaged in a ruthless campaign that killed them en masse.

I am not suggesting we do this, but the answer can’t be to always resist only when it is too late.
Do you think that Travis did not truly love Old Yeller?

You do not have to heed my advice on the action you can take now, but if you reject it I suggest you prepare for war yesterday.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,151
8,453
136

When Rudy admits they pushed this out in the Post because other outlets would do their own investigation (you know journalism) instead of just regurgitating what he's fed them the game is kind of up.

Mr. Giuliani said he chose The Post because “either nobody else would take it, or if they took it, they would spend all the time they could to try to contradict it before they put it out.”
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,096
18,864
136
Do you think that Travis did not truly love Old Yeller?

You do not have to heed my advice on the action you can take now, but if you reject it I suggest you prepare for war yesterday.
I don’t agree - the same impulses that restrain civil conflict now will continue even if liberals adopt the same basic stance as conservatives. If you mean war in that we will have a low grade civil conflict where political violence becomes more normal I sadly do agree there but I think that’s already baked in.

Again though, if the idea is that we only resist fascism when it’s too late to matter out of a high minded ideal I find that ideal not high minded at all, considering the horrors it enables.
 

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