Built a wall this weekend

[flot]

So, I was paying a contractor to enclose my carport. There are cement load bearing walls in place, just two huge holes in the sides.

Long story short, the contractor was taking an awful lot of time and money, and when he was done with wall #1, while I don't think it's going anywhere, it's not how I would have done it. (and I've never actually seen a wall being built before, so hey, I'm just guessing.) So I decided to finish wall #2 myself.

Anyway, I took a good look at what he did, and multiplied everything by 150%. Where he used tapcons for supports, I used 1/2" cement anchors. Where he put studs 24" on center, I put mine at 16.

I did manage to screw up my window opening, though. My supporting studs were an inch or so off from where they needed to be, which I figured, no big deal... wrong. How quickly I forgot that lumber only comes in very specific widths, and if it's not the width you need, too bad!

Just thought I'd share. The frustrating thing is, there are a number of little details where I have no idea if I did it correctly (because I have no idea if he did it correctly).

Edit: Pics:

The wall the guy did for me
The wall I did this weekend (framed - looking in from outside)
The wall I did this weekend (finished - looking out from inside)

What it looked like originally

 

[5ayle]

hey nice job, all the more power to ya. can't you use a shim or something for the window then board up the edges on the outside then insulate it?

 

[Looney]

pics?

 

[lokiju]

:camera:'s

 

[Toastedlightly]

:cameras;s

 

[5ayle]

I can't believe i didn't ask for pics... i'm such a newb.

 

[Cheesetogo]

Originally posted by: blazert40
:camera:'s

 

[flot]

Sorry, added the pics for you guys... I will say one thing, it's been an exhuasting project... total time spent on the wall was about 24 hours, at least 4 of which were spent in home depot.

I also found out how it is that construction sites look like garbage dumps all the time... the 10' surrounding my wall in my backyard looks like I had a whole work crew there, there are empty gatorade bottles, glue cartridges, nails, extra wood, sawdust, lol...

 

[cliftonite]

why didnt you use sheetrock?

 

[flot]

Originally posted by: cliftonite
why didnt you use sheetrock?

I haven't figured out what I want to do on the inside yet. After I get everything else cleaned out of the garage I need to test fit my cars and figure out if I have enough room to put say a workbench and cabinets at the end.. if I do, I'd likely just put up white pegboard or something like that...

 

[jadinolf]

Good for you.

All I did was cut the grass.

 

[flamingelephant]

I was going to yell at you about the header over the window... but then I saw it wasn't a load bearing wall. If you are covering the outside with something (stucco, siding etc...) why did you use treated lumber? seems like a waste of money to do that

 

[Choralone]

Originally posted by: jadinolf
Good for you.

All I did was cut the grass.

At least you could cut the grass! I attempted to and got about half my yard done before my mower said "no more" after making some horrible noises and blowing out some smoke. I haven't been able to get it restarted since and it had been running so nicely this year... :disgust:

 

[flot]

Originally posted by: flamingelephant
I was going to yell at you about the header over the window... but then I saw it wasn't a load bearing wall. If you are covering the outside with something (stucco, siding etc...) why did you use treated lumber? seems like a waste of money to do that

Right - it isn't load bearing at all. As for the pressure treated - just seemed like a good move. Using pressure treated instead of regular wood probably cost ... $250 instead of $150... for $100 it is more water and termite resistant so why not?

 

[DaTT]

As a framer, from the looks of it, you've done well. Although, if you were on my crew and that took you more than 1 hour, you'd be canned

 

[flot]

Originally posted by: DaTT
As a framer, from the looks of it, you've done well. Although, if you were on my crew and that took you more than 1 hour, you'd be canned

Hah. I'd say the framing took me about 3.

Most of that time though was sinking the cement anchors, measuring 300x and cutting once, finding out that my cut was off by 1/8", redoing the cut, etc. Each stud is also nailed and screwed from at least 17 different directions, lol. It was sort of an adventure in trying to figure out the right way to do things. By about halfway through my nailing skills were getting better, but by the end of the job I have two hideous blisters on my hand...

But yes, the contractor I was paying to do it took a week to finish wall #1 - and he was working about 3 hours a day, tops. Now I wasn't in any hurry and it was a very friendly arrangement - but after seeing the "amount" of work involved, it was just stupid for me to pay him to do the rest.

What "should" it cost to pay somebody to frame something in like that?

 

[Dubb]

you didn't need 16" O.C. for that. Also in addition to being more expensive, when treated wood burns, it's pretty toxic. (it's treated with a derrivative of formaldahyde IIRC). Usually only a good idea if you need the weather resistance, and never on interior framing.

 

[Pepsi90919]

did it need to be so... high?

 

[flot]

Originally posted by: Dubb
you didn't need 16" O.C. for that. Also in addition to being more expensive, when treated wood burns, it's pretty toxic. (it's treated with a derrivative of formaldahyde IIRC). Usually only a good idea if you need the weather resistance, and never on interior framing.

Even on the interior of a garage? What happens when I pour a dripping wet car into it? (keep in mind the garage is only about 2 feet bigger than the car in any direction) What about the 9" of rain we've gotten in the last 3 weeks?

I wasn't planning on having my house burn down anytime soon, (and toxic garage fumes are the least of my worries then) although I did do some research on pressure treated wood in general and was surprised to hear that it is such nasty stuff.

As for the 16", I don't think it was necessary either, but makes me feel a lot better, what with hurricane season here and all that. This is the only part of my house that isn't cement, so why build something "Good enough" when for $150 more it isn't going anywhere for a long time?? The "labor cost" was the same for me either way...

 

[Dubb]

Originally posted by: flot

Originally posted by: Dubb
you didn't need 16" O.C. for that. Also in addition to being more expensive, when treated wood burns, it's pretty toxic. (it's treated with a derrivative of formaldahyde IIRC). Usually only a good idea if you need the weather resistance, and never on interior framing.

Even on the interior of a garage? What happens when I pour a dripping wet car into it? (keep in mind the garage is only about 2 feet bigger than the car in any direction) What about the 9" of rain we've gotten in the last 3 weeks?

I wasn't planning on having my house burn down anytime soon, (and toxic garage fumes are the least of my worries then) although I did do some research on pressure treated wood in general and was surprised to hear that it is such nasty stuff.

As for the 16", I don't think it was necessary either, but makes me feel a lot better, what with hurricane season here and all that. This is the only part of my house that isn't cement, so why build something "Good enough" when for $150 more it isn't going anywhere for a long time?? The "labor cost" was the same for me either way...

didn't mean to crap on your project, just offering advice for future reference.

When I posted that I was thinking it looked like the garage was bordered by house on two sides, and one wall was the division between the garage and a sunroom or something, and if the garage caught fire it'd be an easy smoke entrance to the house. you probably don't have much to worry about from fumes, although if by freak chance you're stuck somewhere the fumes are headed...

as for weathering, If you build the wall sandwich correctly, water will never see the framing anyway, unless you have a flood with substantial standing water (in which case you'll be replacing eveything around the framing anyway, and it will have time to dry out)

Have you tested the drainage? if you dump some water in the middle of the garage and it runs to one of the walls and pools, you will have issues regardless of whether or not you used treated lumber. Since it was previously a carport, the drainage off the slab might be a concern.

Personally, I think the biggest argument against using treated lumber unless you really need to is the environmental cost - it's nasty stuff to produce and there really isn't a good way to dispose of/recycle it should you ever rip the wall out.

I'd have to run the numbers, but I can't imagine much from a hurricane that would take out a 24" O.C. wall in that setup that would not take out a 16" O.C. wall as well. much of the rigidity of simple wall systems comes from the plywood acting as shear panels.

 

[Brutuskend]

All the walls I've had experience with are usually 18 inch centers.

Have you checked local codes?

 

[flot]

Originally posted by: Dubb

didn't mean to crap on your project, just offering advice for future reference.

When I posted that I was thinking it looked like the garage was bordered by house on two sides, and one wall was the division between the garage and a sunroom or something, and if the garage caught fire it'd be an easy smoke entrance to the house. you probably don't have much to worry about from fumes, although if by freak chance you're stuck somewhere the fumes are headed...

Have you tested the drainage? if you dump some water in the middle of the garage and it runs to one of the walls and pools, you will have issues regardless of whether or not you used treated lumber. Since it was previously a carport, the drainage off the slab might be a concern.

I'd have to run the numbers, but I can't imagine much from a hurricane that would take out a 24" O.C. wall in that setup that would not take out a 16" O.C. wall as well. much of the rigidity of simple wall systems comes from the plywood acting as shear panels.

Don't worry, wasn't taking offense - just trying to get clarification. And no, to be clear - the carport is seperated from the house by a solid block wall, so I don't have to worry about fire etc. Flooding isn't what I would call "likely" as I have pretty good drainage, but it is certainly possible that once or twice a year the garage could get wet from the inside out. I figured pressure treated wood was just a safer choice all around. I'll concede though that maybe I should should have made the header and footer pressure, and gone with regular wood for the rest?

Excellent points about the drainage. From previous behavior I have to assume the floor is almost level - when it rains sideways water gets in and rarely runs out on its own. I figured I'll worry about the outside first, and get the inside worked out later. Worst case I could build a 'dam' by simply running a bead of caulk 1/4" away from the footer... I assume I don't want to caulk the inside edge of the footer in case water seeps in from the outside?

I do have a question - my ceiling joists were 16" on center but dumb me, I didn't follow the same pattern when I built (I didn't even notice until I had the whole wall finished) ... because of the centered window, I started 16" on one side and 16" on the other side and met in the middle. Is there a standard to follow here? Does the centering always begin on an exterior wall?

Also, since you mentioned sheer strength - I sheathed (well the contractor started and I finished) the wall with 1/2" CDX. Would I have been better off going with something different? I actually asked the guy to use 3/4, not for strength but because on the inside of the wall I need to figure out how to even it up now with the 8" thick block that is everywhere else. If he had indented the wall a bit more and gone a little thicker, would have saved me some aggrivation on the inside. Grr.

 

[flot]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
All the walls I've had experience with are usually 18 inch centers.

Have you checked local codes?

If I read the code correctly, 24" OC was acceptable for an exterior non load bearing wall built of 2x6s.

I think 12, 16, or 24 is most likely - if you had 18" centers you wouldn't be able to put up 4 foot wide sheets of paneling because you'd never have a seam in place over a stud?

 

[cavemanmoron]

Originally posted by: flot
Sorry, added the pics for you guys... I will say one thing, it's been an exhuasting project... total time spent on the wall was about 24 hours, at least 4 of which were spent in home depot.

I also found out how it is that construction sites look like garbage dumps all the time... the 10' surrounding my wall in my backyard looks like I had a whole work crew there, there are empty gatorade bottles, glue cartridges, nails, extra wood, sawdust, lol...

:thumbsup:

LOL make a mess,then you can prove you did some work.

 

[Dubb]

Originally posted by: flot

Don't worry, wasn't taking offense - just trying to get clarification. And no, to be clear - the carport is seperated from the house by a solid block wall, so I don't have to worry about fire etc. Flooding isn't what I would call "likely" as I have pretty good drainage, but it is certainly possible that once or twice a year the garage could get wet from the inside out. I figured pressure treated wood was just a safer choice all around. I'll concede though that maybe I should should have made the header and footer pressure, and gone with regular wood for the rest?

Excellent points about the drainage. From previous behavior I have to assume the floor is almost level - when it rains sideways water gets in and rarely runs out on its own. I figured I'll worry about the outside first, and get the inside worked out later. Worst case I could build a 'dam' by simply running a bead of caulk 1/4" away from the footer... I assume I don't want to caulk the inside edge of the footer in case water seeps in from the outside?[/quote]

It's not uncommon to use a treated sill (the bottom plate), but pretty unnecessary for the top plate. You can most likely caulk the seam on the inside if you really want to, but I would call it a better bet to panel the inside (drywall or whatever) and put vinyl trim around the bottom. that'll give you a ~3" 'splashguard'. I certainly wouldn't run a bead on the cement off of the wall, that'll look pretty tacky.

You definitely want to concern yourself with the outside first, and this is where you might have some issues. generally you don't want the sill less than 6" from the ground, but from the pics it looks like it is (probably a good idea that you used a treated sill, if that's the case). You will really want to make sure that whatever you do for the exterior covers that seam, and good.

I do have a question - my ceiling joists were 16" on center but dumb me, I didn't follow the same pattern when I built (I didn't even notice until I had the whole wall finished) ... because of the centered window, I started 16" on one side and 16" on the other side and met in the middle. Is there a standard to follow here? Does the centering always begin on an exterior wall?

generally, spacing starts from one side and moves to the other, but mainly for efficiency - you only have to cut down (at most) one set of sheathing that way, and it's fewer seams that are potiential points of leakage for air & water.

Also, since you mentioned sheer strength - I sheathed (well the contractor started and I finished) the wall with 1/2" CDX. Would I have been better off going with something different? I actually asked the guy to use 3/4, not for strength but because on the inside of the wall I need to figure out how to even it up now with the 8" thick block that is everywhere else. If he had indented the wall a bit more and gone a little thicker, would have saved me some aggrivation on the inside. Grr.

obviously 3/4" would have given a stronger wall, but given the non-structural nature, sturdy bracing on all 4 sides...it's unlikely it'll ever matter (maybe if your wall gets charged by a bull). You generally want to avoid using particleboard or OSB for sheathing (goes to sh!t if it ever gets wet), but again for your scenario you'd probably be fine using OSB, as long as there's a good siding system keeping it dry.

odd trivia - a lumber distributor told me a couple years ago that the price of plywood was skyrocketing at the time becase the government was buying it all to send to Irag :roll:

not sure if I understand your spacing problem, but I'm guessing it's something you could even out with interior sheathing?