building new system

[Dakaron]

I am looking to perhaps get a dual core machine, however im not sure as to which way to go here, should i go with AMD? or should i go with Intel?

i know that amd 64 = good, however the max speed on those is like 2.4 gig and the dual core 2.4 gig costs in the 700 dollar range

i know that you can get a much faster Intel but im sure they are same price, and i dont know if they support 64 bit technology, and even though they are faster, do amd processors still put out more juice? i know that my 2.0 gig thoroughbred will stomp a good deal of the early 3.2 gig p4's

this is my first home build in a couple years, so my knowledge is limited with all of the new technology out.

i know that i want my new machine to support hyperthreading, i know i want SLI and 2 PCIe slots (gonna throw 2 x850XT's in it cause they are cheep like me hehe) MoBo has to support performance memory not just budjet memory (biostar dualcore amd 64 MoBo only supports value ram)

I will be using Antec PSU 500-600 watt (love antec 12v rails)

will also be dropping 2x 250 gig SATA drives in it, along with DVD rom and DVD W/RW+/- dual layer
will also be trying to go with a quiet machine this time, my last machine operated at about 40 Decibles requireing me to keep my dang 5.1 bumping all hours of the night, so any help with a quiet case, or case quieting tips would be much appreciated here.

 

[Dakaron]

bump

 

[Dakaron]

bump

 

[mc866]

I guess it all depends on your budget and whether or not you plan on OC'ing. I would definitely go with AMD, seems to be the better performer hands down.

As far as the processor, I would suggest the AMD X2 3800+, or the Opteron 165, the opty is probably better for OC'ing.

Next thing is if you want to use SLI you won't be able to use those x850XT's. You would need a cross-fire MB like the DFI RDX200. That and don't worry about the hyperthreading, you'll have dual core.

Personally I think that if you don't have the money to get 2 graphics cards right now that its probably not worth it to go with the cross-fire or the SLI mobo, it better to use the money to buy one good graphics card now.

For non SLI mobo's check out:

Epox's EP-9NPA+Ultra
DFI's LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultr

With the PSU, antec is good but have also had some problems recently. Also check out PC Power & Cooling if you want the best, OCZ, Seasonic, or Fotron.

Graphics cards check out the 7800GT or 7800GTX, 6800GS if you don?t have a lot to spend.

 

[stevty2889]

You are a bit confused on several things. You can't look at the clock speed to figure out which is faster. AMD and Intel have completely differant architectures. AMD uses a more efficiant design, and doesn't need the same clock speeds to do the same amount of work. Look at it this way. Intel is like a 2 lane highway with a speed limit of 65mph. AMD is like a 3 lane highway with a speed limit of 50mph. Sure the Intel is running at a higher top speed, but AMD has more lanes, so they can do more work without running at the same speed..

Just look at the benchmarks. The 2ghz AMD dual core, beats the 3.2ghz Intel dual core in almost everything. Another thing about Pentium-D's are that they run very hot, and are very power hungry. AMD runs cooler and uses less power. Both Intel and AMD dual cores have 64bit.

Another thing..any current Intel board will support hyperthreading..but the only dual core with hyperthreading is the $1000 extreme edition..and hyperthreading actualy makes it slower in a lot of cases, because windows sees it as 4 logical cores, and doesn't know the differance between the real cores, and the virtual cores.

I have both a 4200+ X2, and a Pentium-D 830. At stock speeds, the X2 is faster at everything. The pentium-D won't overclock at all. The X2 is running overclocked to 2.618ghz from 2.2ghz, using the stock AMD heatsink and has the vcore raised, and runs at 51c max load temps. With the stock Intel heatsink, and stock speeds, my pentium-d was getting as high as 80c under load, and throttling. With a better heatsink, it went down to 71c and stopped throttling. Water cooled, at stock speeds, it's now running at 47c, 4c lower than my overclocked X2 thats using it's stock heatsink..

 

[BOLt]

Originally posted by: Dakaron
I am looking to perhaps get a dual core machine, however im not sure as to which way to go here, should i go with AMD? or should i go with Intel?

i know that amd 64 = good, however the max speed on those is like 2.4 gig and the dual core 2.4 gig costs in the 700 dollar range

i know that you can get a much faster Intel but im sure they are same price, and i dont know if they support 64 bit technology, and even though they are faster, do amd processors still put out more juice? i know that my 2.0 gig thoroughbred will stomp a good deal of the early 3.2 gig p4's

this is my first home build in a couple years, so my knowledge is limited with all of the new technology out.

i know that i want my new machine to support hyperthreading, i know i want SLI and 2 PCIe slots (gonna throw 2 x850XT's in it cause they are cheep like me hehe) MoBo has to support performance memory not just budjet memory (biostar dualcore amd 64 MoBo only supports value ram)

I will be using Antec PSU 500-600 watt (love antec 12v rails)

will also be dropping 2x 250 gig SATA drives in it, along with DVD rom and DVD W/RW+/- dual layer
will also be trying to go with a quiet machine this time, my last machine operated at about 40 Decibles requireing me to keep my dang 5.1 bumping all hours of the night, so any help with a quiet case, or case quieting tips would be much appreciated here.

Hello and welcome to the forums!

Okay, before we decide on dual core or not, you need to examine your computing habits and what you want to get out of your comptuer. Know that there are many more single-threaded applications compared to multi-threaded applications, which are where dual core processors really come into their own. Unless you want to do something like design work (i.e. CAD) or heavy, heavy multitasking, you will not see much benefit to a dual core system vs. a single core system. Also, if money is an issue, know that baseline A64s run about $120 whereas Intel's lowest dual core is $245 and AMD's lowest is $350 (my prices are probably not spot on, but you get the idea).

Now, Intel vs. AMD: Intel runs hotter, needs more power, is less efficient, and does not perform as well as their A64 counterparts except in a few things like multitasking, encoding, and decoding. Also, they cannot overclock very well because even their stock speeds cause them to run very hot. AMD is also cheaper on the low end, while their 64-bit processors can overclock very well. I would highly suggest AMD over Intel, so I am going to make recommendations based on that. AMD supports HyperTransport, which is essentially the same thing as HyperThreading.

For an A64 motherboard, I suggest the EPoX EP-9NPA+ SLi or the Ultra version. SLi is pretty pointless in my opinion because by the time you'll actually need to use SLi for games, there will be something better available for less money. This is different if you have multiple monitors or have some other circumstance that clearly warrants SLi. I chose the Ultra version myself because I know that it's an amazing motherboard and I know that I will not be using SLi.

For OC'ing RAM, I suggest Ballistix. For ValueRAM, I suggest Corsair ValueSelect in 512MB x 2 or 1GB x 2. Remember, A64s' memory controllers do not perform as well on 4 DIMMs of RAM than 2 DIMMs. A 1T command rate is highly suggested for your RAM if you can.

Your power supply choice is good. Antec makes great PSUs, but know that even a 400W PSU will be more than enough for most setups (excluding CF or SLi systems, which need at least 500W).

I highly suggest Seagate Barracuda 250GB SATA HDDs. I have two myself. Couldn't be happier with them and their warranty is still in effect for another 4 years! w00t!

NEC ND-3550A Burner. 'Nuff said.

You didn't say anything about a GPU, so I'd suggest a 6200 PCI-e at the very least. The 6600 GT is an excellent choice for a budget gamer, and if you have money to spend or really want to go balls to the wall for gaming, the eVGA 7800 GT is a great, great video card for a decent price ($300, yes, but consider its performance and the alternatives).

Get 120mm fans on your case. A PFC of some sort on your PSU (either active or passive) will keep it quiet (for instance, the Antec SmartPower 2.0 400W PSU that I used to have -- I highly suggest this PSU -- turned off its rear fan when it wasn't running warm enough to need the fan running). Don't get Raptors because they are LOUD. Try and Arctic Silencer custom GPU HSF if your GPU is too noisy and a custom HSF on your CPU if the stock one is too loud.

Let us know what you do!

 

[moonsite]

If you want best bang for the buck, go with the Opteron 165 and the cheap ASROCK board for around $65.

 

[Dakaron]

Thank you for the welcome.

i was actually trying to figure out which way i was going to go with the video, as i understand and have read here, the SLI is really not that great compared to the GTX cards which have the dual GPU's.

this machine is going to be primarily used for gaming, but also for a media center. i watch a lot of movies, edit and create my own movies, and edit and create my own music.

if i do not go with Dual Core, what should i go with? i do not really wish to go to 64 bit honestly but i know that in a year or two thats where we are headed. i might as well go ahead and get myself set up now so that i can be up to date then.

as far as memory goes, should i go with higher volume? or higher quality? as i understand it 2 gig's of high performance memory on 2 modules is much better than 4 gigs of budget memory on 4 modules. is this correct?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Dakaron
Thank you for the welcome.

i was actually trying to figure out which way i was going to go with the video, as i understand and have read here, the SLI is really not that great compared to the GTX cards which have the dual GPU's.

the GTX cards that have dual GPUs are merely SLI on a single board. in fact, they may cost more than 2x regular GTXes.

this machine is going to be primarily used for gaming, but also for a media center. i watch a lot of movies, edit and create my own movies, and edit and create my own music.

you'll probably want an ATi x1x00 card, they help with video transcoding, speeding the process up by 5x. x1800xls are going for just over $300 now, while x1800xts are going for just over $400.

if i do not go with Dual Core, what should i go with? i do not really wish to go to 64 bit honestly but i know that in a year or two thats where we are headed. i might as well go ahead and get myself set up now so that i can be up to date then.

you can get an amd athlon 64 without going 64 bit. windows xp 64 isn't exactly the greatest operating system in the world at the moment. you can just use regular 32 bit xp on an a64 just fine. if you don't go dual core the current processor of the moment is the 3200+ A64.

as far as memory goes, should i go with higher volume? or higher quality? as i understand it 2 gig's of high performance memory on 2 modules is much better than 4 gigs of budget memory on 4 modules. is this correct?

athlons must run much looser timings using 4 modules of memory. go with 2 gigs in 2 modules.

 

[Dakaron]

if you don't go dual core the current processor of the moment is the 3200+ A64.

there are so many of those lol, which would you suggest?

AMD Athlon 64 3400+ Newcastle 800MHz FSB Socket 754 Processor Model ADA3400AEP4AX - OEM this is 180 bucks and operates at 2.4 gig frequency.

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3200CGBOX - Retail

operates at only 2.0 gig BUT has 1gig fsb costs 170

which is better?

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: Dakaron
I am looking to perhaps get a dual core machine, however im not sure as to which way to go here, should i go with AMD? or should i go with Intel?

Intel's dual core CPUs are unstable, slow, and generally inferior to AMD's dual core CPUs. The choice is pretty obvious.

i know that amd 64 = good, however the max speed on those is like 2.4 gig and the dual core 2.4 gig costs in the 700 dollar range

You can't compare an Athlon 64 @ 2.4 GHz to a Pentium 4 @ 2.4 GHz. The Athlons are simply more powerful, and can do more operations per clock cycle than Pentium 4s. Go find some benchmarks and you'll see what I mean.

i know that you can get a much faster Intel but im sure they are same price, and i dont know if they support 64 bit technology, and even though they are faster, do amd processors still put out more juice? i know that my 2.0 gig thoroughbred will stomp a good deal of the early 3.2 gig p4's

You seem to have confused things a bit. Athlon 64s are always faster than Pentium 4s at the same price point. There's really no good reason to get an Intel chip right now.

this is my first home build in a couple years, so my knowledge is limited with all of the new technology out.

Well, you came to the right place!

i know that i want my new machine to support hyperthreading,

Only Intel supports hyperthreading, and it's really just a gimmick. Hyperthreading does help sometimes, but not enough to tip the balance in Intel's favor. Again, just look at the benchmarks.

i know i want SLI and 2 PCIe slots (gonna throw 2 x850XT's in it cause they are cheep like me hehe)

I'm no gamer, but most folks tell me SLI is too over-priced at the moment to be of much use.

MoBo has to support performance memory not just budjet memory (biostar dualcore amd 64 MoBo only supports value ram)

I'm not sure where you're getting this info. First of all, there's absolutely nothing wrong with budget memory. On the contrary, it's almost foolish to get anything else. So-called "performance" RAM offers maybe a 2-3% speed bump for a hefty sum of cash. Now, if you want to stay away from generic RAM, that's understandable. OCZ Value Series or Corsair ValueSelect are both reliable and inexpensive, and so I'd recommend one of those kits.

Secondly, I've never heard of a motherboard supporting only "budget" memory. Do you mean it doesn't support registered memory? Registered DDR SDRAM is typically for server/workstation setups. For a desktop, you'll want to stick with normal unregistered memory.

I will be using Antec PSU 500-600 watt (love antec 12v rails)

That's enough for almost anything.

will also be dropping 2x 250 gig SATA drives in it, along with DVD rom and DVD W/RW+/- dual layer

NEC ND-3550A, hands down.

will also be trying to go with a quiet machine this time, my last machine operated at about 40 Decibles requireing me to keep my dang 5.1 bumping all hours of the night, so any help with a quiet case, or case quieting tips would be much appreciated here.

I can't help you with a quiet case, however, here's my recommendation for motherboard/CPU/RAM....

High budget:
Opteron 165 (939 version)
ASUS A8N-SLI motherboard
2GB (2x1GB) Corsair ValueSelect kit

Medium budget::
Athlon 64 X2 3800+
ASUS A8N-SLI motherboard
1GB (2x512MB) Corsair ValueSelect kit

Low budget:
Athlon 64 3200+ ("Venice" socket-939)
Epox EP-9NPAJ motherboard
1GB (2x512MB) Corsair ValueSelect kit

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: Dakaron

if you don't go dual core the current processor of the moment is the 3200+ A64.

there are so many of those lol, which would you suggest?

AMD Athlon 64 3400+ Newcastle 800MHz FSB Socket 754 Processor Model ADA3400AEP4AX - OEM this is 180 bucks and operates at 2.4 gig frequency.

You've got to remember clock speed isn't everything. The 3400+ Newcastle will not overclock very well, and will be limited by single-channel memory and the 800 MHz HT.

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3200CGBOX - Retail

operates at only 2.0 gig BUT has 1gig fsb costs 170

which is better?

Definitely the Venice. That thing will get up to 2.6-2.7 GHz on stock cooling, and it has dual-channel memory to boot.

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: BOLt

Originally posted by: Dakaron
AMD supports HyperTransport, which is essentially the same thing as HyperThreading.

Uh no, hyper transport and hypertreading aren't even remotely the same thing. Hypertransport is esentualy a high speed interconnect for the CPU to communicate with the rest of the system, replacing the FSB.

Hyperthreading is basicly a virtual CPU, that makes the operating system believe there are 2 proccessors, which can give a 15-20% performance boost in the right situations..

 

[Dakaron]

man thank you all so much for your help, im compiling this system now ill post what i have decided on soon, still trying to collect a few peices of information and ill get final specs posted soon. while im at it...

for CPU cooling? 120mm?