Building first computer

[Cycophant]

I'm looking to try my hand at building my first computer. I'm moving out to my own place in June and need a new computer (so, no waiting for better or new technology unless it arrives in the next 2-3 weeks).

I've tried to do as much research as possible, but I'm behind the times in technology now, and the task has become rather daunting.

I'm looking to build the best gaming machine on a budget. The parts should focus on best "bang-for-buck", but further on the side of performance. My limit is $1200, but lower is better. Keep in mind, that's CDN Dollars, so the limit is probably closer to $800 or $900 USD.

There are a few pieces I've been looking at, like the Radeon 9800 Pro for a VG Card and the AMD Athlon 64 3400+ for a CPU, but they are both looking to be a little expensive perhaps.

So, can anyone offer me some suggestions to make sure I can run the newer games (specifically ones like Thief 3, WoW, etc.), but still keep the machine reasonably priced? Thanks for your help.

 

[SSibalNom]

you could always drop the 3400 to a 3000.... and then OC it to 2.2... you wont lose too much in real gaming... and for the vid card.. check out AT hot deals... compgeeks is sometimes selling refurb 9800pro's for ~$129!

 

[nick1985]

drop the 3400 to a 3000

get a gig of mushkin 3500 level 1

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: nick1985
drop the 3400 to a 3000

get a gig of mushkin 3500 level 1

Ditto ... But don't forget the 9800pro

 

[Cycophant]

All right, I've done some re-tooling, and I'm still coming up a little high. I've got new prices from Newegg because even with the rediculous exchange rate to Canada, it's still cheaper than the prices I can get here.

An Athlon 64 3000, Radeon 9800 Pro, Antec 400w PSU, 1 gig of PC3500 Mushkin RAM and a Seagate 120gig 7200 RPM is hovering at $1199.58. That doesn't include a monitor, motherboard, case, optical drive, or any of the usual extras (mouse, keyboard, etc.).

Can anyone recommend some further cutbacks? Or should I stick with what I have, and try and get some better deals on the prices?

 

[ponyo]

I would get mobile XP 2500, 512 mb of value ram like Geil, Antec SLK3700AMB case w/ 350W PS, Shuttle AN35N-Ultra motherboard, 9800 Pro, and hard drive of your choice.

 

[Davegod]

Nicely priced case with quality PSU that should be ample: Antec SLK3700BQE. the -AMB version is a little cheaper but has less noise reduction stuff, BQE worth the little extra. Lots of good reviews (including silentpcreview) to find on google.

Remember you can cut back in some areas to upgrade later, for example get a 512mb stick of RAM and add the second one later - RAM prices are ridiculous right now anyway. Any intentions to overclock? You can do cheaper than PC3500 Mushkin lvl1 if not (though I suggest against the Generic quality lottery). An 80gig HDD will likely be fine for quite a while, can add another drive for more storage when you need it. Do you need, or how much do you want a DVD burner right now? I'm not saying you should drop these things, just some ideas on where you can prioritise

 

[Markfw]

I get $863.50. Is that $1200 CDN ?

SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9800 PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -BULK
Specifications:
Chipset/Core Speed: ATI RADEON 9800 PRO/380MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/680MHz
BUS: AGP 8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video Out)+DVI Connector
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®2.0
Cable/Accessories: 4 Cables, VGA via DVI Adapter, PowerDVD, Driver CD
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz more info-> N82E16814102268 $204.00 $204.00

Antec P4 ATX12V 400 Watt Power Supply With 2 Fans, Model "SL400" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Type: ATX
Maximum Power: 400W
PFC: No
Power Good Signal: 100-500ms
Hold-up Time: < 17ms at Full Load
Hold-up Time: < 17ms at Full Load
Efficiency: >=68%
Over Voltage Protection: +5V trip point<+6.5V;+3.3V trip point<+4.1V;+12V trip point<+15.6V
Overload Protection: Latching Protection+5V @<53A;+3.3V @ <48A;+12V @ <23A
Input Voltage: 115 VAC / 230VAC
Input Frequency Range: 47-63 Hz
Input Current: 10A for 115VAC;5.0A for 230VAC
Output: +3.3V@28A;+5V@38A;-5V@0.5A;+12V@18A;-12V@0.8A;+5VSB@2A more info-> N82E16817103912 $47.00 $47.00

AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail
Specification
Model: AMD Athlon 64 3000+
Core:Newcastle Operating Frequency: 2GHz
FSB: Integrated into Chip
Cache: L1/64K+64K; L2/512K
Voltage: 1.5V
Process: 0.13 Micron
Socket: Socket 754
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, 3DNOW!, 3DNOW!+
Packaging: Retail Box (Heatsink and Fan included) more info-> N82E16819103424 $223.00 $223.00

Kingston HyperX Series 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3500 Specification
Manufacturer: Kingston
Speed: DDR433(PC3500)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 2-3-3-7-1T
Support Voltage: 2.6V
Bandwidth: 3.5GB/s
Organization: 64M x 64 -Bit
Warranty: Lifetime more info-> N82E16820144102 $150.00 $300.00

Seagate 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model ST3120022A, OEM
Specifications:
Capacity: 120GB
Average Seek Time: 8.5 ms
Buffer: 2MB
Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM
Interface: IDE ULTRA ATA100
Features: 350 Gs non-op shock, 3D Defense System
Manufacturer Warranty: 1 year
Packaging: OEM more info-> N82E16822148020 $89.50 $89.50

 

[Cycophant]

Naustica: One quick concern - why would I want a Mobile CPU in a desktop computer? Seems a little inefficient to me.

Davegod: I'll take a look at that case. I'm really not too worried about a good-looking case; I couldn't care less what it looks like. I just want it to be sturdy, and have a good reliable PSU.

Cutting back on the RAM might not be a bad idea - I was wondering if RAM prices seemed a little rediculous right now. I have no intentions of overclocking. It's not worth the possible drop in reliability or problems with warranties/etc. for the amount I'd really need it, I feel. Besides, I'm running a 500mhz box with an old TNT2 32 meg video card right now, so getting a new machine will seem pretty fast to me for a while You're probably right about the 80gig, too. Any suggestions for brands of HD's or RAM? And in all likelihood, the DVD burner is probably superfluous. A regular CD burner will likely suffice for a long time, if not permanetly. I've heard great things about LiteOn CD burners - perhaps I'll cut out a DVD burner and invest the money in a good quality CD writer?

Markfw900: Yep, total comes to $1207 or so. Factor in a little more for the shipping charges that US Companies usually tack onto Foreign orders, but it's still not too bad. Problem is, I'm at my $1200 limit now, and I would still need to invest in a few more parts (Mobo, case, monitor). I'd say ideally all those main components should come up to about $1000 CDN for me to hit my limit after paying for all the other pieces needed. I don't mind if the monitor brings me over $1200, though - so we can ignore that for now.

 

[wseyller]

Originally posted by: SSibalNom
you could always drop the 3400 to a 3000.... and then OC it to 2.2... you wont lose too much in real gaming... and for the vid card.. check out AT hot deals... compgeeks is sometimes selling refurb 9800pro's for ~$129!

it will not oc to 2.2 The 3200 won't even do it being stable. These processors do not overclock much at all. But I can say a 3000 will be plenty without overclocking.


For gaming especially newer games you need at least 1gb ram. Some games will use 75 to 95 percent of 1gb ram when game loads. With only 512mb you will get occasional lag and minor latency throughout in newer games.

 

[Markfw]

Ditto on the Antec SLK3700BQE, just a little more than the 400 PSU. And 512 meg memory is fine for now, add more later.

 

[ponyo]

I only suggested XP mobile because it overclocks well with unlocked multi and default vcore is only 1.45. Mobile Barton XP is basically same as desktop Barton except it's handpicked best of the best.

If you don't plan on overclocking then plain desktop XP2500 Barton for $80 would be sufficient. Also just buy PC3200 value ram if you don't plan on overclocking. Geil value ram has decent timings at 2.5-3-3-6 at 200 FSB.

Buy 512mb ram. If you find you need more ram later you can always add another stick when prices are more reasonable. AMD systems don't benefit much at all from dual channel unless you run onboard video so you can go with single stick.

 

[Cycophant]

The system appears to be doing a little better now. Thanks to everyone for all your help. But I still need a few more suggestions.

RAM: Cheapest stick of PC3200 512mb RAM, but nothing that's unreliable either.
CPU: A good heatsink/fan for an AMD 64 3000+, since the cheapest source in Canada appears to be OEM only.
Mobo: A high-quality motherboard. I'm not looking for anything fancy (no need for firewire/etc.) but I do want an onboard network card (just easier that way) and soundcard (since the apartment means no big speakers or surround sound).

One final cry to any Canadians or those who simply know: are there any online suppliers of computer parts IN CANADA? I've obviously found a few, but I haven't a clue if their prices are good, if they're reliable, or anything else. Newegg won't ship to Canada, unfortunately.

Thanks again, fellows.

 

[Lyfer]

Get a 1GB of RAM.

 

[wseyller]

Originally posted by: Lyfer
Get a 1GB of RAM.

Yes Get 1gb of ram. The newer games will eat one 512 stick and more. I have an lcd in my tower that show me memory usage. For example when playing Desert combat or BF vietnam before I even click to run the game I use about 20 percent of 1gb of memory. When I click to run the game in the menu it is at about 35 percent. When I start a game, by the time it loads up the map its about 75 to 95 percent depending on the map and how many people are in the server. With 512mb you get lag spikes every few seconds due to having to access data from the harddrive.

 

[ForceCalibur]

I have 512 megs and everything from Farcry, call of duty, BFV, etc runs fine. No accessing HD whatsoever, don't know whats up with yours.

 

[SkaarjMaster]

Get 1GB of RAM (2-512 sticks), 9600Pro or 9700Pro, and Thermalright SLK-947U heatsink with Panaflo 92mm fan! Use black cable ties to latch this fan to the heatsink, but only through the bottom holes. Use the top holes to attached a fan grill, especially a good idea in a mid-tower case. I wasted a 92mm fan in my Mom's mid-tower system with my finger because of no grill. You can get away with no grill in a full-tower system because there's plenty of room. Good Luck!

 

[Davegod]

Far Cry and Battlefield are the only games I can think of that benefit from >512mb. Given the budget here and the current price of ram, getting 512mb (with easy upgrade to 1gig later if need be) seems an obvious choice to me.

wseyller, your comp is taking up about 200mb of RAM, without running anything? Either you run a LOT of crap in the background or you need to get that fixed: my XP Pro uses about 130mb - a large chunk of which is the ridiculous hog that is NAV2004's processes - and most of that is in the swapfile.

PC3200 (or faster) Kingston Value RAM, Samsung, TwinMOS should be OK, or most stuff about the same price -- though might be worth checking compatibility with your motherboard, I gather some of these Athlon64 boards are a bit picky. About any harddrive brand will do - seagate, western digital, samsung, not sure about smaller Hitachi drives. TBH I'm a bit dissapointed with my Maxtor 160gig, makes an annoying whine all the time, wish I'd gone with a Samsung Spinpoint. I beleive http://www.storagereview.com/ is the most highly rated site. for harddisk performance analysis, though also worth mentioning silentpcreview seem to reccomend the samsung drives.

I wouldnt bother with an expensive thermalright heatsink seeing as budget is tight, no overclocking going on and no mention from OP about noise being a particular issue. Stock HSF with the retail CPU should be fine. Again, it's something that can be upgraded later if need be, last I looked the retail cpu wasnt even anything significantly more than the OEM CPU.

 

[wseyller]

Mine runs fine with 1gb, but I've seen others systems with 512mb have more latency when playing these games. Maybe you have all settings on low detail, but i'm talking about building a system that all the newest games can be ran at the absolute highest settings flawlessly. If you were able to see how much memory you were using you would understand just how many resources these games use.

 

[Davegod]

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Cycophant
Naustica: One quick concern - why would I want a Mobile CPU in a desktop computer? Seems a little inefficient to me.

the mobile XP's are exactly the same core as the desktop versions (no sacrifice of cache or anything), but they are unlocked and run at a lower vcore stock. Which means you can raise the vcore to 1.65 (stock for desktops) with no danger, and most people run these chips at 1.75-1.8 without any trouble. Also, since they are unlocked you can get a good overclock even after your RAM won't go any higher.

My 2400+ mobile is currently running at 2.3GHz, 210FSB, 1.75V. Faster than a 3200+, Sandra tells me it's faster than a P4 3.2C in everything except SSE2 (duh), so I'm pretty happy.

 

[Cycophant]

I know that sooner rather than later, 1 gig of RAM is going into the computer. However, as mentioned, I just don't think I can fit two 512 sticks into my budget. I'm used to a VERY antiquated computer, so if I have to turn down the settings on a few games for the time being, until I get another stick of RAM, then so be it.

Davegod:Yes, I have noticed that the few motherboards that support Athlon 64 are quite picky about their RAM. I'll go with one of the manufacturers suggestions, but certainly use the brands mentioned as a price guide.

I think I've decided on a 80gig Seagate, but there is one thing I'm a little confused about. What's the difference between RAID, SATA, Ultra ATA, etc.? Can anyone point me to a site that explains these a little bit? I've noticed most of the Athlon 64 mobo's support RAID and a plethora of other options, and I just want to know what it's all for.

I did some more searching, and found a few places in Canada that will sell the Athlon 64 3000+ in a retail package, not just OEM, so more need for a heatsink/fan. Good to know the stock pieces will be just fine, though.

jagec: thanks for the information about mobile CPU's - I had no idea. I don't really have the desire to overclock right now - but some day I might want to try it, and I'll certainly keep that all in mind.

 

[Wahsapa]

u really should drop the athlon 64, you are on a budget and they're gonna get better down the line anyway so now really isnt the time. i highly suggest the athlon xp mobile for you.


ata/ide = what everybody uses now(old hd connection)
sata = what everybodys gonna use in the future(new hd connection)
raid = what everybody should be using now

what motherboards are you looking at?

 

[Cycophant]

The XP Mobile may seem like a really good deal, but I just don't know if I should bother. Sure, they overclock great, but I doubt I'm going to have enough time, money, patience and knowledge to overclock it. My girlfriend will be going back to school, and I don't want any random downtimes from an overclocked CPU that I can't afford to fix because the warranty is void or something.

I was looking between the 3 motherboards that were reviewed here on AT; FIC K8-800T, Chaintech ZNF3-150, and the MSI K8T Neo. They all look pretty dead-even, and they all seemed priced about the same. I'm not really sure which way to go. But then again, this all largely depends on what CPU I go with.

 

[wseyller]

Raid is redundent array of independent drives. Practically means 2 or more hard drives that work together for optimal speed. There are many different modes, but the 2 used in the motherboard you may possible get is mirror and stripe.

Raid is expensive because you would have to buy more than one drive.

I would get one SATA drive (Serial ATA) they are a little faster than ATA133 drives and the standard ones are not much more expensive than the ATA133 drives. This are a couple versions that are 10,000rpm instead of the standard 7,200 which will perform at little better but just cost more.