Building code/zoning TX vs FL

[Fanatical Meat]

Storm is mostly over and it appears FL did pretty well property damage wise.
Leading up to the Storm I heard a lot about stricter building codes regarding roofs and stuff that can come off houses. They started being more strict after the 1992 storm.
I usually dump on Red States for allowing lax inspections & code because FreeDumb! I won't today, appears Florida made some smart decisions.
From what I understand TX has almost no building codes, will they learn from this?

 

[local]

We regulate by city not state. Each city establishes which version of the building codes they will use and the state just sets the minimum, currently 2006 IBC and related codes or newer required. Usually it is within the last 3 years as changing every year is counterproductive. Codes are stricter near the gulf as we are generally required to have hurricane straps on rooftop equipment, coated coils, etc. I would imagine that extends to new construction as well.

And to be fair the direct hurricane damage is probably pretty similar between the two. Our big problem came from the feet of rain that fell in one area and is now the largest amount of rain on record in the US. Had Irma stalled like Harvey you would have seen the same kind of situations.

 

[WHAMPOM]

What does a RED state being smart have to do with it? Insurance providers threatened to deny coverage if strict building codes were not adopted. Blackmail works.

 

[kage69]

I sure hope Texans learn.

Do I think they will? No. The state who feared being 'taken over' by Obama via Jade Helm isn't going to dismount that sacred cow, not willingly anyway.

 

[1sikbITCH]

There are quite a few articles printed after Harvey explaining how Texas leaders for 50 years have built with reckless abandon, ignoring the environment, resisting and killing off all types of regulations that protect the land, swamps, lagoons, tidal basins, etc. in favor of allowing construction to boom unrestricted across the land (giving lots of illegals lots of work btw). This urban sprawl has essentially filled in all the marshland etc and paved everything over into one big parking lot with lots of Mexicans and no drainage.

Oops.

Florida on the other hand got flattened by Andrew in 1992 and in many places the whole town was rebuilt in 1993. Houses are now concrete, building codes updated, lessons learned, etc.

Edit: Here is an article explaining why all the other articles are wrong, and that lack of planning had nothing to do with it. Just to present both sides. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/8/30/houston-hurricane-harvey-land-use

 

[kage69]

Edit: Here is an article explaining why all the other articles are wrong, and that lack of planning had nothing to do with it. Just to present both sides. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/8/30/houston-hurricane-harvey-land-use

Wow. Daniel Herriges is a reactionary moron. 50" of rain would not have devastated other cities to the degree it did Houston simply because no other American city has ignored their water pumping needs for decades like Houston has, or the hardscape issue almost entirely. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/08/why-cities-flood/538251/

And when people spoke up about what a time bomb this was, how Houston can only get rid of a ridiculous 30cm of water in a 24hr period, how climate change was going to exacerbate the problem, those people were marginalized, dismissed and ignored for 'bringing a political agenda' to the issue.

Selfish, short sighted snowflakes and natural disasters just don't mix. Shocker.

 

[Meghan54]

Yet another article about Texas/Houston:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-31/a-hard-rain-and-a-hard-lesson-for-houston

Last year the National Association of Home Builders boasted of its prowess at stopping codes for 2018 that it didn’t like. “Only 6 percent of the proposals that NAHB opposed made it through the committee hearings intact,” the association wrote on its blog. The homebuilders demonstrated their power again this year, when President Donald Trump reversed an Obama initiative restricting federally funded building projects in flood plains. “This is a huge victory for NAHB and its members,” the association blogged.

http://www.greenbuildermedia.com/blog/author/ron-jones

Ron Jones, a member of the NAHB board who builds houses in Colorado, says that while the first priority now is helping the victims, he hopes the storm will force new thinking. “There’s no sort of national leadership involved,” he says. “For them it’s just, ‘Hell, we’ll rebuild these houses as many times as you’ll pay us to do it.’ ”

 

[Bitek]

Yet another article about Texas/Houston:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-31/a-hard-rain-and-a-hard-lesson-for-houston

During the media coverage up to the storm I saw one Texas official say "don't worry about it, that's what flood insurance is for!" when asked about endangered communities and in reference to city planning.

Just look up what is being paid out to Houston and it's clear they don't give AF.

 

[Exterous]

Storm is mostly over and it appears FL did pretty well property damage wise.
Leading up to the Storm I heard a lot about stricter building codes regarding roofs and stuff that can come off houses. They started being more strict after the 1992 storm.
I usually dump on Red States for allowing lax inspections & code because FreeDumb! I won't today, appears Florida made some smart decisions.
From what I understand TX has almost no building codes, will they learn from this?

Yet another article about Texas/Houston:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-31/a-hard-rain-and-a-hard-lesson-for-houston

Its unlikely structure building codes would have made much of a difference in Houston. The biggest issue was flooding which is more the purview of zoning\city planning.

Zoning and development needs to be the focus along with changing how water flow is managed. Velocity is one of the biggest issues that almost no one is dealing with. This is more of an issue in TX than Florida due to the much higher presence of clay. Dealing with this is going to be a NIMBY issue though as, for example, even existing drainage would need to be redone and enlarged to allow for curves instead of straight lines. Given the scope of impact to existing plots of land it would make sense to be a requirement to receive FEMA resources that certain guidelines are met but there are some pretty serious questions about FEMA's ability to create those guidelines.

Title: Houses build under FEMA guidelines suffer more damage than pre-guidelines houses
http://heinonline.org/HOL/Page?handle=hein.journals/rcatorbg37&div=26&g_sent=1&collection=journals

I can also understand some of the NAHB's stance on building codes (but not flood plain development). Many are not well thought out. Requirements for sprinklers in single family homes is questionable as are the benefit of arc fault breakers. The ADA public pool requirements originally enacted would have been detrimental and had to be scaled back. More locally the Michigan lowering of skyscraper qualification height by 5' saddled many businesses and institutions in tens of millions in present and future compliance costs.

The abundance of hardscapes also needs to be addressed and Houston is more hampered by its size than any comparable in Florida. There is more than a flooding aspect to this as hardscapes affect local weather patterns due to concrete's heat retention abilities and adds to the Urban Heat Island affect. Sadly very few cities really take a good approach to city planning. Its a tight rope walk between over and under regulation for a very expensive operation with very long term payoff goals - which is an impossible task for many politicians and property owners on both sides. I've not been to TX yet but I have been to plenty of very liberal cities\institutions and the prevalence of hardscapes remains even at places that should know better and have the $ to do it better.

Edit: You'll also see a lot of changes that only affect new structure (or a renovation affecting more than 50% of the structure). So an area that's been flattened more recently than another will often fare better as many structures that don't meet current minimums were previously destroyed to be replaced by sturdier construction. I believe this would be the case in Florida compared to Houston given Florida's more frequent hurricanes

 

[Paratus]

During the media coverage up to the storm I saw one Texas official say "don't worry about it, that's what flood insurance is for!" when asked about endangered communities and in reference to city planning.

Just look up what is being paid out to Houston and it's clear they don't give AF.

Don't worry about that. News here was reporting that only. 1 in 6 actually had flood insurance.

I helped a couple of flooded co-workers who didn't have insurance. One said his insurer said he didn't need it. The other said the same and then talked him out of buying it when he persisted.

The mortgage companies also DGAF unless you are in a 100 year flood plain. A neighbor who didn't quite flood said her mortgage company had dropped flood from her escrow this year.

(Flooding from Harvey was designated been an 800 year and a 40,000 year flood depending on the area.)

Windstorm however the mortgage companies care about. Every time we make an adjustment to our windstorm coverage the mortgage company freaks and threatens to buy some for us until we prove we are still covered.

As for building codes, the costal counties do have some for windstorm. Houses have to have hurricane straps. The roof has to meet certain minimums. All the newer developments also have significant drainage setups. So it's not quite the free for all you might think, depending on the area and age of the construction.

 

[Jaskalas]

Texas building codes? #blueshed
/thread

 

[Genx87]

Let us know which building codes prevent damage from flooding. Then we can discuss red vs blue.

 

[JSt0rm]

Let us know which building codes prevent damage from flooding. Then we can discuss red vs blue.

Let's ignore zoning and talk about building codes.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

The mentality down here is very much that regulation is almost as evil as illegal immigrants and the gays. The increase in cost associated with any sort of regulatory compliance is viewed as a scam by construction, mortgage and insurance companies.

It would require some serious federal strong arming to get Houston to change anything, the urban sprawl in Texas has been far too lucrative to even think about slowing it down. Sadly, lots of the conservatives down here (Looking at you Cruz, Abbott) would turn such a measure into political grand standing about States rights vs Federal regulation.

My stance is they absolutely should do something about the drainage system, a city of 6.5 million people can't be this dangerous of a flood hazard. It's reckless both ethically and financially, to expect federal aide to rebuild with the idea that "we'll just build it again!" 300,000 homes are going to need to be rebuilt, there's no way we can afford to do this more than once.

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm sure Texas construction loves those federal dollars

 

[kage69]

Yeah wait, where are all the proud upright Texans pulling those bootstraps while flipping the bird to Washington and it's swamp money?

Remember their howling at Obama for 'you didn't build that'?

This storm better jog some fucking memories, in more ways than one. Or will the goal of short-term profit win out, again?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Gotta love all the hate some in here feel for people affected by Harvey, specially considering the majority of them voted Democratic party/Clinton last year. Houston is one of the Democratic strongholds in the state.

 

[kage69]

Gotta love all the hate some in here feel for people affected by Harvey, specially considering the majority of them voted Democratic party/Clinton last year. Houston is one of the Democratic strongholds in the state.

No, you're just being defensive and lame again is all.

Noting people can be hypocrites doesn't involve hate. If being at odds with earlier professed beliefs irritates people, well there's a pretty easy fix for that: shut the fuck up, quit talking down to people who are willing to accept a helping hand. Or act in accordance with your stated beliefs, start building your own versions of those roads and schools you hate paying taxes over. Whatever works.

Hate? Haha, I'm not going to brag about what I've sent, but suffice to say amounts like that aren't usually construed as hateful. I couldn't care less if it goes to Democrats or not, it went to Americans in Texas, but yes let's pretend the State of Texas isn't known for right-wing control and a certain zeal for anything than can be remotely viewed as anti-growth. Having real drainage? Modern pumping stations, buffer zones, etc? Hippy nonsense, the kind that requires taxes no less!