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Building a System that lasts - A message to the Price Guide Writers.

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danielmd3000

Junior Member
Is it me or these days buying a Vido Card cost more than my building a hole PC back in 1995 ?

How can this be ?

My current system Abit KG7-RAID, AMD Athlon ~1.6Ghz, 512Mb RAM, GeForce GTS2 Pro is getting old, but i have upgraded the periferals, new monitor, new sound card, new DVD-RW, etc... I have this system for 5years now, and it still makes me proud, that i built it.

I was thinking about upgrading only my Video Card and buy me one of those AGP GeForce 6600GT, because games are going all the way with shaders, but with the 64Bit Rave (is it just hype) and multi-core Hype, I am thinking in building a new system.

That is wend i turn to reviews, and reviews, i like anandtech, but i read reviews from many sources, and guides, and one thing they all fail, wend makign these price guides, is go beyond the price/performance.

I want to build an upgradable system, and they provide no information about the UPGRADABLE SYSTEM. So here is my apeal to the anandtech people (if they read the Forums) please include a new section that has upgrade in mind.

For instance. lets say i am building a new system, but i don't want to spend much money on it. the article should point to the fact that you can get a SLI enable mobo, and buy a $200 6600GT PCIe, because in 1 year time I will be albe to upgrade to a Dual 6800GT/Ultra ($250) about the same price that i paid for an original card. Games take 2+ years to build -they are built with dated tools- so the technology side of a new card (APIs, Shaders, etc...) is not going to scale.

What is better to have a Dual 6800GT PCIe, or simply invest again in a say "$300 7600GT card", with all its new features that will only be used by games realeased in 2010 ???

In the future, please bare in mind that people don't have a new system every year -and we don't recieve new parts every day, like you do in the lab- so we rely on you guys to do the rational for us, and give us good advice, all these 64Bit, Muli-core STUFF, is really nice, but i wan't to invest in a system that last at least another 5 years.

Best Regards, and Kudos for the work, but i know you can do better,
Daniel MD
 
Game developers are already developing games for nextgen features. Do you honestly think they get their graphics chips at the same time we do?..

Get a 6600GT now, get a 7xxx a few months after they're released. Better yet, get an x800XT or XL and get an MVP enabled card when they come out. Performance extreme.
 
Originally posted by: hippotautamus
Game developers are already developing games for nextgen features. Do you honestly think they get their graphics chips at the same time we do?..

Get a 6600GT now, get a 7xxx a few months after they're released. Better yet, get an x800XT or XL and get an MVP enabled card when they come out. Performance extreme.
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Well since i am going to be playing the games and since they relly on the same APIs that you and me do have installed, i don't see a point to your point 🙂
 
Originally posted by: danielmd3000
Right and that Work, Thought and Testing ?luck? Should translate into the articles, but in my view it does not.
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Come on, stop being a weenie.

If you read the articles, you should get a slight idea where the industry is going. Using that information, you should be able to see what parts are probably worth picking up, depending on what you want out of your computer.

Luck's important for those little things that just come out of no where, like SLI. 😛
 
Originally posted by: biostud
Actually the prices of hardware has dropped
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Well does not fell like they have, what we have is allot of intermediate unthinked realeases from CPU, Chipset, motherboard manufactures. I don't see a real performance gain from my computer that i built 5years ago, and the brand new P4 that i use at work. The architectures have only changed names or version and have evolved only marginally.

What i would like to have seen these past 5years, is a smooth evolution in the architecture of systems. I am still buying and building the same system: Mobo, CPU, Memory, HDD, peripherals. What has changed, nothing except speed, PCs are still as stupid as they wore back in 1992 -the first PC that i bought- and that makes me real sad, mad at times, and generally disapointed.
 
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: danielmd3000
Right and that Work, Thought and Testing ?luck? Should translate into the articles, but in my view it does not.
Click to expand...

Come on, stop being a weenie.

If you read the articles, you should get a slight idea where the industry is going. Using that information, you should be able to see what parts are probably worth picking up, depending on what you want out of your computer.

Luck's important for those little things that just come out of no where, like SLI. 😛
Click to expand...

A weenie? OK, I don't get it, asking for more information in your thinking is being a weenie? If wanting to meke a more informed and advised decision is being a weenie. Than in that case I am a weenie.

All i am asking is for some little warning or advisors. Like for instance you should buy an SLI motherboard, because it will be upgradable, even if you don't use the SLI features at the time. You should buy a Socket-939 because it is 64bits enabled, and you can use multi-core chips wend they come out, and prices drop. Will it be multicore X2 or X4 compatible? Don't buy the expensive delux P4 motherboard that is not Multi-core, 64bit ready.

Just little reminders and upgrade paths that one might want to take.

Since these are guides, then Guide the reader in more than just the price tag. I can read the price tag on my own, what i can't do, is test it all, compare it, know of the architectural details, test the kind of sotware, games that takes advantage of the features, and then do the thinking in a rational maner of an upgrade path.

Because lets be honest, most of us are using our NEW systems like we are using our brains, at 10% of the available features.

 
Originally posted by: danielmd3000
A weenie? OK, I don't get it, asking for more information in your thinking is being a weenie? If wanting to meke a more informed and advised decision is being a weenie. Than in that case I am a weenie.

All i am asking is for some little warning or advisors. Like for instance you should buy an SLI motherboard, because it will be upgradable, even if you don't use the SLI features at the time. You should buy a Socket-939 because it is 64bits enabled, and you can use multi-core chips wend they come out, and prices drop. Will it be multicore X2 or X4 compatible? Don't buy the expensive delux P4 motherboard that is not Multi-core, 64bit ready.

Just little reminders and upgrade paths that one might want to take.

Since these are guides, then Guide the reader in more than just the price tag. I can read the price tag on my own, what i can't do, is test it all, compare it, know of the architectural details, test the kind of sotware, games that takes advantage of the features, and then do the thinking in a rational maner of an upgrade path.

Because lets be honest, most of us are using our NEW systems like we are using our brains, at 10% of the available features.
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Yes, you're being a weenie. That information is available. Use the noodle.

Read the news articles, read the reviews, see what people are saying about these different technologies. Don't just rely on some "PC building guide." You're got a brain, use it. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Yes, you're being a weenie. That information is available. Use the noodle.

Read the news articles, read the reviews, see what people are saying about these different technologies. Don't just rely on some "PC building guide." You're got a brain, use it. 🙂
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Then why the hell do they call it a GUIDE ?
 
Originally posted by: danielmd3000
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Yes, you're being a weenie. That information is available. Use the noodle.

Read the news articles, read the reviews, see what people are saying about these different technologies. Don't just rely on some "PC building guide." You're got a brain, use it. 🙂
Click to expand...

Then why the hell do they call it a GUIDE ?
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Most of the people that are reading sites like Anandtech aren't here for upgradable business machines. They're here for kick butt gaming machines that don't have to last more than 6 months without an update. And updating a motherboard isn't a big deal to many of the members here.
 
Originally posted by: danielmd3000
You just reminded me why i don't use forums like this again. It's the WHATEVER mindset of most of it's members.
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I don't think it's a totally bad idea, I just think that you can get as much out of it if you do just a little bit of work on your own. I'm one of those "do your own homework" sorta people. 😱
 
danielmd, it's always a risk when considering the upgrades. Since you've built one system already, you have a good sense of what's involved with matching components, and as you've already been upgrading, you know the weak spots in your system. But at some point you have to do a major upgrade that usually involves mb, cpu, and perhaps vcard. A good review for you would be the gaming platforms that are usually broken into high, medium, and economy budget. The mediums will look at solid second generation components that have been thoroughly developed and tested, and have well known parameters. Even the reviewers can't predict how long components will last, so they have to "shoot blind" sometimes, so don't put alot of the burden on them. But from the sounds of it, you are in that major upgrade zone and have to look at components that might be migrated to another platform in a year. Even for a mid level performance system, you should be able to fully enjoy it for at least 2 years before considering an upgrade. The reviews are out there, sometimes it just takes awhile. And the forums are very useful as there are lots and lots of people (me included), who aren't out to build a blazing system with cutting edge componenet. We help when we can. Keep at it 😀
 
Originally posted by: danielmd3000

All i am asking is for some little warning or advisors. Like for instance you should buy an SLI motherboard, because it will be upgradable, even if you don't use the SLI features at the time. You should buy a Socket-939 because it is 64bits enabled, and you can use multi-core chips wend they come out, and prices drop. Will it be multicore X2 or X4 compatible? Don't buy the expensive delux P4 motherboard that is not Multi-core, 64bit ready.
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I agree a few pointers consolidated in a sticky as to what to look for in a mobo for intel and amd would be nice. What emerging technologies to plan on and how to you could take advantage of them now on the cheap and be able to upgrade later.

But it seems we are at the point of "disposable" mobos, there are often enough new feature within a year or two that its easier to toss it and get a new one with the bling. This is opposite of what I had done for many many years, buy the best mobo you can afford, drop a cheap cpu in it and a bit of memory etc. Upgrade to better cpu, more/faster mem as the price becomes reasonable.

I think part of the reason is that in the life of a typical (to me, thats 3 years as a main comp, 3 more as a server, multmedia hub whatever)) pc, the technology advances too much.

The last game rig I built I tried to plan for ugrades. I waited as long as i could but still got burned on a few features because they werent there yet. I did get a mobo with good overclocking support and an 8x agp that allowed me to run my old 4x card for a while till I got my 8x 9600, DDR400 support (but no dual channel however), 400/533 fsb (no 800) to allow a cheap P4a to be used and still run a HT P4b later (still havent replaced it) 6 pci slots (5 occupied now), antec truepower 350 ps and anec plusview 1080 case to stuff lots of future goodies into. And its pretty full now too. Upgrades i did as time went by were a new audigy 2 Platinum, new 8x agp vid, DVDRW, faster mem then the ddr266 stuff I started with (ddr433 now), sata controller so I could run 2 opticals and 4 HDs plus zip100. Still havent replaced the P4a 2.2 🙂

I am happy. I did the best I could at the time, and it has and is serveing me well. But note that even with the best info, I still couldnt get some things I wanted due to progress marching on. When I upgrade Ill replace the mobo with one that uses dual channel DDR2 and has the 800/1000 fsb support (Im an intel guy) and PCIE. If I can wait it out Ill see what other features Ill want in the mobo.

Point is, even if you do your homework, youll still get to watch the technology pass you by. There are very few things can can be reused when you keep a comp as long as you or I. You can stretch your system out a bit but even then only within the limits of the mobo.

I think the fact thet your 5 year old home built system keeps on par with the new P4s at your work speaks well, you probably used top shelf components set up right. So you did it right before, its just there arent as many upgrade paths now. Too much new stuff in incompatible with the old, *sigh*
 
Originally posted by: CrispyFried
I think the fact thet your 5 year old home built system keeps on par with the new P4s at your work speaks well, you probably used top shelf components set up right. So you did it right before, its just there arent as many upgrade paths now. Too much new stuff in incompatible with the old, *sigh*
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I agree with many of your points, it just pisses me off, that today i can buy a top of the line notebook cheaper than I can upgrade my desktop system. It simply does not make sence to me.

It pisses me off the fact that i can't get a DDR2 AMD MOBO, but the Intel MOBO have DDR2 support a long time now. I can't buy this Memory because it is incompatible with this chipset, Crazy stuff.

Honestly some days i don't even know how this bunch of incompatible features, and parts, can all work together, and be a system. I would prefer that the industries worked in a more stable, reliable, and cyclical way.

Huff... :frown: Just lettign some steam off, pay no attention.

 
When DDR2 first came out for system memory, it was not worth it due to latency. And if PCs now are not that much better than PCs 5 years ago, then why do you want to build a new one? If you have such great ideas and the whole industry is doing it wrong, then why don't you go work with them and show them how it's done?
 
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