Building a New System

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KungFused

Member
Mar 9, 2007
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Hey guys,

I've been lurking here for a while, answering most of the questions that cropped up for me while planning this system, and now that I think I have everything picked out, I decided I'd register and post -- hopefully if there's some egregious incompatibility I've overlooked you guys can catch it for me! Suggestions on where I can improve the machine's performance without a whole lot of additional cost, or on where I could cut costs without losing much performance, would also be very welcome. :)

So here's what I've got picked out right now:


My price target is ~$1500 after shipping and rebates, including some things not listed like keyboard/mouse. I'm right about there with these components, but other than the case and the speakers there's still time for adjustment if necessary!

When designing, I opted to spend money first on the parts that I won't need to replace regularly to keep the system up to date -- the peripherals ($120 of the budget went to a set of Klipsch Promedia 2.1's, not to mention the 226BW), the power supply, the case, etc. -- before I started dropping big bucks on the rest of it. In theory, that'll make future builds a little cheaper (yay cannibalism). :p

Also, a couple of newbie questions:

Will there be any hardware conflict with the SATA optical drive and the SATA hard drive, or will the motherboard's SATA controller figure that stuff out on its own (or with driver assistance)?

Will the stock Intel cooling be enough to allow me to overclock to a 333MHz FSB (to match the RAM's speed), or will I need an aftermarket cooler?

Please let me know what you think!

Cheers,
Kyle

[EDIT] Updated motherboard in the list and ditched the sound card for now based on recommendations below!

[EDIT2.0] Updated list to reflect new $1500 budget.
 
K

KungFused

Member
Mar 9, 2007
85
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The two big system-intensive things I use it for are gaming (although I mostly play WoW, which I hesitate to describe as system-intensive) and data generation using a program called Gaussian for my chem research here at the university. Gaussian's a memory hog, but I usually run it while I'm asleep since it doesn't need any user input once I set up a batch to run.

I'd like to be able to install and run Vista, but it isn't a deal-breaker for me. I'd be sticking with XP either way if I didn't have the option of getting a free copy through the engineering college here.

I've also tinkered with the thought of using it as a media center PC, but I'd definitely need more storage to get serious about something like that. So I guess one of my biggest concerns is that this machine be forward-compatible enough that I have to replace as little as possible if I decide to be a lolhardk0re gamer or a miniature media mogul somewhere down the road.

[EDIT] I r gud at speleng.

Cheers,
Kyle
 
S

sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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Do you plan to overclock?

If not, then you don't need 667 RAM, 533 will suffice.

If you do plan to overclock, then I would ditch the SLI board and get this one instead.
 
mcurphy

mcurphy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2003
4,150
8
81
Originally posted by: KungFused

So here's what I've got picked out right now:

Click to expand...



  • Are you planning on OC'ing the system? If so, there are other things to consider...
 
K

KungFused

Member
Mar 9, 2007
85
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I've given some thought to overclocking, particularly after reading the reviews on NewEgg of the E6300. I might overclock a bit, but again it isn't a deal-breaker. If I did want to overclock, what would I need to change?

sjandrewbsme, what is it about that Gigabyte mobo that makes it better for overclocking? Just curious is all, so I know what to look for in the future. :)

Cheers,
Kyle
 
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sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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That board (and chipset) is just very good for overclocking - it's very popular for that very reason. Really the only thing you need for overclocking is good RAM (DDR2 667 will give you a little overhead, DDR2 800 would be better) and a good heatsink and fan.

That chip can be made, with little modification, to outperform significantly faster chips.

Check here for more info:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/18/overclocking-guide-part-1/
 
mcurphy

mcurphy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2003
4,150
8
81
Originally posted by: KungFused
I've given some thought to overclocking, particularly after reading the reviews on NewEgg of the E6300. I might overclock a bit, but again it isn't a deal-breaker. If I did want to overclock, what would I need to change?

sjandrewbsme, what is it about that Gigabyte mobo that makes it better for overclocking? Just curious is all, so I know what to look for in the future. :)

Cheers,
Kyle
Click to expand...

sjandrewbsme has some good advice. I would have suggested a different mobo and RAM if you wanted to OC as well. You may also want to consider a different HSF other than the stock Intel if you want to OC. Make sure your case has plenty of cooling as well.

I own the Gigabyte S3 and can testify to it's remarkable OC'ing capability. It has extensive BIOS features that allow you to tweak it to max performance, and has benchmarked well in every review I have seen.
 
K

KungFused

Member
Mar 9, 2007
85
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Alrighty, I decided to take your advice and swap mobo's. (Sadly, part of that decision comes from how much better the Gigabyte board looks -- ooh, shiny heatsinks!) I've also been reading through that Tom's Hardware article link -- excellent stuff, thanks for pointing me in that direction!

If I'm understanding what's going on in the THW article, it looks like I'd be able to overclock the CPU to a 333MHz bus fairly easily, which would (if I've got the math figured out) match the CPU's speed to the RAM's 667MHz speed? With an effective processor speed of about 2.3MHz? This is probably the overclocking route I'd take to start. Did I get this right?

Thanks to both of you guys for your advice so far!

Cheers,
Kyle
 
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sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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The speed of a processor is the FSB times the clock multiplier. On most all chips, you cannot change the latter so you're stuck changing the FSB.

When you increase the FSB, you increase the speed the RAM is running (unless you have a board which allows you to uncouple these frequencies - I know the high end Asus 680i boards do this). Your chip (E6300) is very capable of running in excess of the stock 533 MHZ FSB. You need to get RAM that will also allow this.

I would get at least 667 (considering the pricing is about the same) or 800. Also, do a forum search here to find out which memory you want. You're looking for something with Micron chips preferably as they are very stable and great overclockers. Then again, if you get DDR800 you will most likely not exceed 800 FSB (due to other limitations) so this may not be necessary (i.e. you won't be overclocking the RAM).
 
S

sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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One other thing - make sure and get a good retail heatsink and fan. The stock intel HS/F is not that good for cooling (one of the major factors in determining how much overclocking performance you can gain).

The one used in the THG article is a good start. And, make sure you get good thermal grease (some should ship with your retail HS/F assembly). This can greatly aid in overclocking. The stock intel unit uses a parrifin based thermal pad (if I remember correctly) that more or less melts into the aluminum heat spreader. It's adequate for stock speeds, but sucks for overclocking.

In fact, I would recommend not using the retsail HS/F at all as the microscopic pores of your chip's spreader will be clogged with this parrifin stuff. You can get chemicals for removing it, but it's better to never install it (if you plan on doing some decent overclocking).
 
K

KungFused

Member
Mar 9, 2007
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Okay, I think I understand now -- the speed rating on the RAM is essentially the fastest it's rated to perform? (Before overclocking, of course.) But because of the 533 MHz FSB clock on the processor, my 667MHz RAM will only operate at 533 MHz unless I overclock and increase the FSB, which is why I'd only need 533 MHz RAM if I wasn't going to overclock?

So if, rather than pushing my CPU to its upper limit, I call it good enough at a 667MHz bus, will I be fine with 667 MHz RAM without having to worry about how well the RAM overclocks?
 
K

KungFused

Member
Mar 9, 2007
85
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Any chance I can squeeze some more opinions/comments out of anyone else before I let this thread sink forever into the dark abyss? :D
 
C

Cheezeit

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2005
3,298
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76
You picked the old version of the HDD. The KS is the new one, with slight improvements.
 
E

engiNURD

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2004
3,975
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The KS isn't any faster than the JS. I have both. Also, for the price of that Enermax, I'd go for the Enhance 5150G 500W PSU from eWiz.com instead. A good quality PSU, more power, and costs a bit less.

E6300 used to have more headroom than the E4300, though it seems like that trend is gone with the new batch of E6300/E6400 CPUs. The math is simple, and you've almost got it:

Stock settings...
E6300: 7x (cpu multiplier) 266Mhz (default base FSB) = 1.86Ghz (CPU clock speed)
Now, the intel platform is quad-pumped, so the effective fsb is 4x the base fsb: 4 x 266 = 1066Mhz FSB
Then, the ram is in dual channel, so 2 x 266 = DDR2-533

Now, the CPU Multiplier's max value is locked, so the only way to overclock is by raising the base FSB. AT found the safest OC for the stock intel HSF to be 2.6Ghz with the E6300; which means an FSB of around 370Mhz, which any DDR2-667 kit should be able to reach. If you want to run at 7 * 400 = 2.8Ghz, its possible with the stock intel HSF, but you'll need some DDR2-800 ram instead. If you want to go past 3Ghz, I'd recommend an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro (~$20, if you can find one), or the Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B ($40 at the egg). Go for some Patriot eXtreme Performance DDR2-800 2GB LLK sticks, for $165AR at the egg, if you want to reach 2.8Ghz+.

Oh, one more thing, I'd change that Centurion 5 to the Centurion 534, which is only $30 @ svc.com (black w/window) -- a great deal. The 534 uses two 120mm fans, which leads to a more quiet computing environment (Centurion 5 has 1x80mm and 1x120mm). Oh, you'll need another case fan, since it only comes with one. Pickup one of the Scythe 120x25mm fans (also at svc.com), as they're quiet and push alot of air.
 
magreen

magreen

Golden Member
Dec 27, 2006
1,309
1
81
Originally posted by: engiNURD
Stock settings...
E6300: 7x (cpu multiplier) 266Mhz (default base FSB) = 1.86Ghz (CPU clock speed)
Now, the intel platform is quad-pumped, so the effective fsb is 4x the base fsb: 4 x 266 = 1066Mhz FSB
Then, the ram is in dual channel, so 2 x 266 = DDR2-533
Click to expand...
You mean the ram is double-pumped, not dual channel. DDR speed is twice the FSB speed at a 1:1 ratio, regardless of whether it's running in dual channel or single channel mode. Same goes for DDR2.

 
K

KungFused

Member
Mar 9, 2007
85
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Updated parts list in original post; budget has been increased to $1500 from the original $1100. Will be ordering this coming weekend, any last-minute suggestions before then are always appreciated! :)

Oh, and please pardon the thread necromancy. ;)
 
J

jkresh

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,436
0
71
Since you still have some room in your budget you might want to consider going to a 8800gts 320 (which after rebates should fit your budget and would be a nice upgrade for future gaming), and/or going to 4 gigs of ram, vista 64 is very nice and significantly more compatible then xp 64, the extra ram might be useful for Gaussian. There are some good deals on ocz memory now (after rebates, and I dont think you can order two sets with rebates but maybe if 1 goes to your house and the other to school)... ocz ddr2 800
 
K

KungFused

Member
Mar 9, 2007
85
0
0
Thanks for the response, jkresh! I'm actually just about at my budget right now, though. (I didn't list boring stuff like keyboard and mouse because those don't usually raise compatibility issues. ;)) I'm currently planning to load XP Pro, at least until I start hearing more good things about Vista, and I don't really want to hassle with 64-bit version of either since I don't think my version of Gaussian (or any other software I have, for that matter) will take advantage of the 64-bit OS anyway. Rest assured, though, I plan to upgrade the video card as soon as I can -- EVGA's step-up program is one of my major motivations for choosing their card over a better ATI card for similar money.

That'll have to wait until I pimp my girlfriend's machine, though... she's inheriting this old Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop, but I promised I'd get her a dock set up so she can still use the peripherals she likes. I might also grab a faster CPU and more RAM for it (it's running 1.6GHz Pentium M and 1gb of RAM right now) to keep it kicking a while longer for her.

Also, I've been looking at non-Creative sound cards, and this Sondigo Inferno looks like another good option. Can anyone more experienced in the computer audio world help me out with a quick compare/contrast between that and the X-Fi card? ie, what if anything is the Sondigo better for, and what if anything is the X-Fi better for?

Thanks,
Kyle
 
P

Phantomaniac

Senior member
Jan 12, 2007
268
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76
The X-Fi is better for gaming, as it supports EAX 3-5. But IMO the Inferno, which uses C-Media's Oxygen HD chip, is better for everything else (music, movies, etc). Its really up to personal preference. The Inferno still supports EAX 1+2 so if you're willing to give up some of the later EAX features I'd definitely recommend it. In fact I plan on getting one myself soon. However if you go with the X-Fi get one of the higher end ones like the Fatality edition. The two recent low end X-Fi cards Creative released, the XtremeAudio and the XtremeGamer, aren't worth the money IMO.
 
P

Phantomaniac

Senior member
Jan 12, 2007
268
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Hmm, I guess I missed that because neither Newegg nor the Sondigo website lists the chip it uses. Anyhow the Bluegears b-Enspirer does feature the CMI8788 for $110, which is still a good deal.
 
R

ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
9,343
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Well, that's because they're hoping for exactly what could have happened here: Someone thinks they're getting something they're not.

I'd recommend the HT Omega Claro. I have the plus version which has better OPs. See thier product page here.
 
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