building a new desktop to use as an server - questions on the processor

[The Stigenator]

1. What YOUR PC will be used for.: General office applications - Accuzip, Quickbooks, Etc. Will act as an server in this regard.

2. What YOUR budget is. : ~$500-750

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from. USA

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. NONE

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are. - ALL new

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds. stock speeds

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using? 1600x900

9. WHEN do you plan to build it? as soon as possible.

X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system Win7 Pro (or Ultimate) or Server2010. Will probably run it in an VM hypervisor environment.

SO here is my problem. I have a piece of software essential to my company that currently runs on a gateway celeron (g530) based system. The program is called 'accuzip', its a single threaded 32 bit app.

My problem is that I cant get the performance I need to get the application to its full speed, doesnt help that is poorly coded in that sense. The manufacturer has been no help but people online have tested that SSD's make a difference. Since its a 32bit single threaded app, it can access no more than 3.5gb of ram and 2 gb data files.

Since this program is a single threaded application, I figure a Intel chip with hyperthreading will go a lot faster than a 4-8 core AMD chip. Since one of the factors that determines its speed seems to be amount of cache and the cache speed (our sales advisor / support person uses a Core i5 based system and its much faster than our celeron at the same speed).

I plan to run the program within a VM environment (so that I can move that application to other servers if needed without registering the program etc). I want to run the program and datasets on a SSD (120gb/240gb). So with that said, it probably will help if I run a hypervisor first and then run multiple instances of the OS in VM environments.

What I need a processor with good single thread performance (includes hyper threading) and VM support.

 

[mfenn]

Hyperthreading and single-threaded performance don't really have anything to do with each other. Hyperthreading is just a way to make a single physical core appear to be two logical cores.

Also, there is no Windows OS called Server 2010. There is Server 2008, Server 2008 R2, Server 2012, SBS 2008, SBS 2011, and Server 2012 Essentials. If you want to use Microsoft's hypervisor (which is totally fine for Windows guests and pretty much free), then you need to be using Server 2008 or later, preferably R2.

The hardware itself is pretty easy:

Xeon E3-1230 V2 $240
ASrock H77 Pro4/MVP $80
G.Skill DDR3 1600 16GB $85
GT 610 $20 AR - no IGP on the Xeon
Intel 335 240GB $180
Lite-ON DVD Burner $18
Corsair CX430 $35 AR
NZXT Source 210 $30
Total: $688 AR

Make sure you have a backup strategy.

 

[The Stigenator]

Well I thought of the hyper threading thing partly because the CPU is one physical unit with 2 logical units. If I remember right windows sees them as individual processors, so that may not work.

In that case I should get the fastest processor (for single thread performance) and the most cache.. in that case it might be useful to have a AMD processor then right? The new Vishera based ones have a lot more cache to comparable AMD's.

then again I have to check the CPU's raw perforamnce.

 

[Carson Dyle]

I'm trying to get a feel for what you mean by "server" in the context of your applications. Is AccuZIP a client/server app, in that users on the network access the program (or perhaps its database) from their own computers, or is it more of a desktop application, in that users sit at that PC to use the software?

Same question with Quickbooks and any other apps. In what sense will this machine operate as a server?

What's your company's current server and network infrastructure? Are you running Windows server in a domain environment?

Is the vendor really so anal that they tie the AccuZIP license to only the original hardware on which the software is installed? I'm wondering whether the VM is necessary. If not, it can only add overhead.

 

[The Stigenator]

AccuZip is a commercial level CASS software, www.accuzip.com is the website. Its something we use to validate our data that we sell to our clients. Its licensing requirements are strict. So yes its coded to the hard drive serial. Lets put it this way, every 3 months they send us a new authorization file.

Our network is decentralized hybrid (as a lot of files stay on laptops), gigabit ethernet / wifi backbone. Our data is currently kept in Linux (mysql) servers, our processing is done in windows on laptops. Data files are stored on a windows 7 home premium desktop (server = the current machine). Our domain controller is actually a Linux box, so we really dont need a full fledged server.

Accuzip is a desktop program, it is run on that machine running Windows 7HP using tightvnc. Or we walk up to it and run it on there. Quickbooks is for me, I had to keep the program centralized so I could access it from anywhere. The datafiles and the program is stored on the central machine, I access it over tightvnc or walk over to the machine. I do believe quickbooks will run over the network on the client laptop if I wanted to do so.
The only other thing that runs on that machine is Open Talend and Automation Anywhere 5.5.2, thats for specific stuff we do and they execute automatically anycase.

Rest of the time that machine just holds files as a file server. It can continue to be a file server, we can move everything else to a newer machine. The whole idea of the VM was so that I didnt have issues with re-registration of Accuzip if we had to change something in the hardware. Plus the program really is slow as it is, currently its processing stuff at 60,000 records per hour. Its too slow for our company.

 

[Mushkins]

Typically those sorts of software licenses are tied to a combination of the hardware profile and the computer name. I know at my previous job we had a handful of programmers that absolutely had to keep their obscure old pc names whenever we had to rebuild their systems because of software licensing issues, but in the event of a serious failure we could always go back to the company and have them issue a new license for the new PC and deactivate the old one. It was always a pain in the ass, but the bottom line is that we were paying them for the software and they had an obligation to work with us for a resolution if they wanted to keep getting our money

I'd say your best bet here would be to contact the vendor directly and get their recommendations, especially if the program is really slow to begin with. It might not make sense to be dumping all this money and time into new hardware if the real answer ends up being that the product no longer meets your needs and its time to find an alternative product.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Sounds like you need to find the fastest CPU that you can manage and an SSD for the OS. Extra memory will help in the running of VMs, but the app itself can't use much. Perhaps an additional SSD for data could also help.

If performance is key, and you run this application a lot, especially if it's remotely (VNC) without knowing who/what is using the machine, then I would consider dedicating the machine to that application.

There's only so much that can be done in hardware to increase the performance of poorly written, outdated software. I was reading a bit in the AccuZIP forums. There were threads started 7 years ago promising basic features that users are still asking about. I've seen software companies like this before. They don't have a clue how to move forward, afraid that they'll wreck something, so they milk what they have. I'd look for new software.

 

[mfenn]

Well I thought of the hyper threading thing partly because the CPU is one physical unit with 2 logical units. If I remember right windows sees them as individual processors, so that may not work.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. If you want maximum single-threaded performance, you will always disable HT on a CPU that has it.

In that case I should get the fastest processor (for single thread performance) and the most cache.. in that case it might be useful to have a AMD processor then right? The new Vishera based ones have a lot more cache to comparable AMD's.

Other way around. AMD can only beat Intel in highly-multithreaded integer workloads. Intel is the king of single-threaded performance.