Building a new box

[Venom 2099]

To start here is some info:

1. What YOUR PC will be used for:
Gaming, lots of gaming. Normal other computer stuff.
2. What YOUR budget is:
3-6K
3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from:
USA
4. IF YOU have a brand preference:
Not really
5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts:
Optical drive, mouse, keyboard, monitor
6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads:
I did try to research parts yes, and read some general builder threads.
7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds:
I will try to do some overclocking of the CPU

Parts:

1. Power supply - Turbo-Cool 850 or Silencer 750
2. Case - CoolMaster 830 Evo
3. Motherboard - ASUS P5N-T Deluxe
4. CPU - QX9650
5. Heatsink/fan for the CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120 extreme with Scythe S-Flex SFF21F
6. Memory - 2GB Corsair Dominator PC28888
7. Primary hard drive - 2-WD Raptor 150s in Raid-0
8. Primary optical drive - reuse
9. Video card - 2- 512 Mb 8800 GT SLI
10. Monitor - reuse 32" 1920x1080 Sharp LC-32GP3U-B
11. Mouse/keyboard - reuse
12. Operating System - Windows XP SP2 (32bit)
13. AuzenTech X-fi Prelude sound card
14. Snacks - none, don't want to get crumbs in the thermal paste.

I would really like to use DDR3, but no nvidia sli chipset supports that yet. I will also like to see what the release of the 9770 looks like, and I am tempted to wait for Nehalem. But waiting always yields new better hw around the corner. The problem is my current system won't do 3d games anymore with out crashing, I suspect a bad AGP port. I would just get a new mobo but If I am going to do that I might as well build a new system. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Roguestar]

1: That's overkill, no-one needs an 850 Watt PSU. Get something in the 500W range from Seasonic or Corsair.
2: That memory is overkill too, don't just spring for the most expensive and assume it's the best. You'll literally never be using the overhead that expenso-RAM gives you. Go and get 2x 2GB of DDR2-800.
3: Don't SLI two mid-range graphics cards!. With your budget there's absolutely no excuse right now for not using a better single-card solution. Go buy the 8800 Ultra, or wait for the 9800 series in a short while.
4: Snacks are good, as long as you're well disciplined enough not to eat over the motherboard .
5: Don't RAID-0. Even though you've heard other people boasting about it, slapping the internet in the face with their e-peen and lapping up the performance placebo effect, it's a waste of cash, reduces MTBF and doesn't give any real-world performance. All it does is races through synthetic benchmarks and looks good in a sig in Xtreme Overclocker type forums.

In fact I'm going to break out raid0.txt

Originally posted by: AnandTech HD Review
Half-Life 2: Lost Coast loading times
The results speak for themselves with the RAID 0 setups offering extremely minor performance improvements in actual game load testing. You will likely not be able to notice any differences during actual game play with a RAID 0 setup. We know it was impossible for us.

BF2 Daqing Oilfields loading times
Once again we see a minimal difference between our RAID 0 and single drive configurations in this benchmark with only a one second difference in load times. In repeated testing it was difficult to discern any differences between the RAID 0 and single drive setups.

Nero Recoding
If you do a lot of video encoding then RAID 0 could end up saving you some precious minutes each day. Is it worth the cost or effort? Probably not, but it is one area besides benchmarking where RAID 0 actually made a difference. Of course, if you don't already have the fastest CPU for encoding available, that would have a far greater impact than RAID 0.

File Copying
We finish our tests with a benchmark that should have favored the RAID 0 setups due to a pure write scenario. Unlike our iPeak test (and for that matter a similar test in PCMark05) where the largest differences in scores between setups were generated, we have RAID 0 making no difference in this test and actually scoring worse than a single drive setup in two instances.

Final Thoughts
If it is not obvious by now, RAID 0 will provide outstanding results in synthetic benchmarks but really does nothing in actual applications.
RAID 0 sounds impressive in a system configuration and provides a performance placebo effect when viewing synthetic benchmarks. However, RAID 0 is just not worth the trouble or cost for the average desktop user or gamer, especially with the software RAID capabilities included on most motherboards.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: Venom 2099

1. What YOUR PC will be used for:
Gaming, lots of gaming. Normal other computer stuff.

2. What YOUR budget is:
3-6K

You need a good hardware based RAID conrtoller card.
Set up a RAID 6 array using 6 x 150GB Raptors.

Crossfire with 3870's.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: Blain
Set up a RAID 6 array using 6 x 150GB Raptors.

:shocked:

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: Roguestar

Originally posted by: Blain
Set up a RAID 6 array using 6 x 150GB Raptors.

:shocked:

That's only $1,049.94. For someone with a $3k-$6k budget, it's peanuts. :laugh:

I can tell by the OP's information that he's a "take no prisoners" kind of guy. Not like most of the tightwad players lurking around here.
Finding a "good" RAID 6 card that's compatible with a Crossfire MB will be the real trick.
"RAID 6"... Have two drives die on you and the thing still keeps chugging along. Now that's what I call RAID!

BTW OP, don't forget to buy a beefy PS for running the 6 Raptors and twin 3870's.

 

[DSF]

There's something funny to me about the fact that you've got a budget up to 6,000, you're willing to go RAID 0 Raptors for that extra .1% performance, but you're reusing your old optical drive.

Your old computer was apparently AGP. Is your old optical PATA? If so, and I were working on that kind of budget, I'd replace it with a SATA drive just to get a bulky cable out of the way.

 

[MegaVovaN]

You have several thousand dollars budget yet you get 2 gb RAM and 32 bit OS???

Buy Vista 64, 8 gb RAM.
If you HATE Vista (on this fast PC it will gg pwn all games anyways) get Xp Pro 64bit.

 

[Roguestar]

Eugh, I'd never recommend XP x64 to anyone with the money to buy themselves out of that hellish destiny . Grab a copy of Vista Ultimate and throw 4x 2GB of RAM in.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Not sure if your budget will allow it, but
1) Get several SSD (Solid State Drive) in RAID for amazing speeds and zero latency! Games and OS will load in seconds!!!!!!

2) Two or three 8800GTXs in SLI or wait for new nV CPUs (high end 9 series) OR four ATI cards.

That should be HOLY SHIT YOU PWN.

 

[Venom 2099]

Ok, well I have a decent budget, but that doesn't mean I want to waste money. I want to make sure I can run every thing at my full resolutions with all the eye candy and still get top notch performance.

1. So if Raid-0 is a dud is it still worth getting the 10k rpm drives?
2. Is it worth doing SLI at all, or will the single card technology move forward at a fast enough pace that it just makes sense to pop in the top card every 1-2 years?
3. If I don't do SLI should I then go with the intel X48 chipset and DDR3?
4. I hadn't really thought about getting a sata optical drive makes sense to me from a cabling perspective.
5. I haven't heard anything good about vista and all the game performance info I have seen shows it slower than 32 bit xp on same hardware.
6. I have also heard of people having quite a few problems with sound cards in vista.
7. Was basing the memory off of the review here about the DDR2 - 10000+ spec stuff

Thanks for the feedback so far!

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Venom 2099

Ok, well I have a decent budget, but that doesn't mean I want to waste money. I want to make sure I can run every thing at my full resolutions with all the eye candy and still get top notch performance.

1. So if Raid-0 is a dud is it still worth getting the 10k rpm drives?
2. Is it worth doing SLI at all, or will the single card technology move forward at a fast enough pace that it just makes sense to pop in the top card every 1-2 years?
3. If I don't do SLI should I then go with the intel X48 chipset and DDR3?
4. I hadn't really thought about getting a sata optical drive makes sense to me from a cabling perspective.
5. I haven't heard anything good about vista and all the game performance info I have seen shows it slower than 32 bit xp on same hardware.
6. I have also heard of people having quite a few problems with sound cards in vista.
7. Was basing the memory off of the review here about the DDR2 - 10000+ spec stuff

Thanks for the feedback so far!

not trying to sound like a dick but it probably will, you sound kind of ignorant thinking you need to spend $6K on a gaming rig. i would think 1500 would be well more than enough.

you don't the kind of psu power you think, read around and see what actual rig draws are. in all reality, a 430W earthwattts will more than likely suffice, maybe go to 500-550W for a bit of "futureproofing" but you don't need 750 or 800W - plus the earthwatts are usually on some type of a rebate deal so you can get them cheap - usually the 380W for ~$20, the 430W for ~$30AR and the work very well.

m/b - you don't need a top of the line m/b to go fast or the newest chipset - the p35 based m/bs are running very good and can be had for ~$100

stay w/ ddr2 - $50-$70 for 2GB of decent stuff

cpu - up to you but w/ a gaming rig gpu is more important, hell a 6750 would be excellent and still leave you w/ o/c room

hdds - 1 raptor and then 1 larger 7.2k hdd

gpu - wait to see what nvidia is coming out w/. the new ones will probably run you $500 but they should be excellent based on their current role, but we don't know that yet, so i would wait on them as you will need some gpu power @ 1920x1080

there really is no benefit for moving to a sata optical drive just for the sake of the drive - imho a waste of $$$

i approach building machines different than you are thinking - computers, no matter what lose $$$, so why not get what you need that will do the job you need and not waste it. hell, put the extra $4500+ in at least something like ing and get a bit back on your $$$, putting $6K into a computer is a huge waste of $$$.

and don't be afraid to upgrade when you need to. trying to build a futureproof machine in an enviornment that changes at least every 12mos is not good because no matter what, that gpu you spent $500 is now worth $150 on the for sale forums if you are lucky

 

[Venom 2099]

Originally posted by: bob4432

not trying to sound like a dick but it probably will, you sound kind of ignorant thinking you need to spend $6K on a gaming rig. i would think 1500 would be well more than enough.

you don't the kind of psu power you think, read around and see what actual rig draws are. in all reality, a 430W earthwattts will more than likely suffice, maybe go to 500-550W for a bit of "futureproofing" but you don't need 750 or 800W - plus the earthwatts are usually on some type of a rebate deal so you can get them cheap - usually the 380W for ~$20, the 430W for ~$30AR and the work very well.

m/b - you don't need a top of the line m/b to go fast or the newest chipset - the p35 based m/bs are running very good and can be had for ~$100

stay w/ ddr2 - $50-$70 for 2GB of decent stuff

cpu - up to you but w/ a gaming rig gpu is more important, hell a 6750 would be excellent and still leave you w/ o/c room

hdds - 1 raptor and then 1 larger 7.2k hdd

gpu - wait to see what nvidia is coming out w/. the new ones will probably run you $500 but they should be excellent based on their current role, but we don't know that yet, so i would wait on them as you will need some gpu power @ 1920x1080

there really is no benefit for moving to a sata optical drive just for the sake of the drive - imho a waste of $$$

i approach building machines different than you are thinking - computers, no matter what lose $$$, so why not get what you need that will do the job you need and not waste it. hell, put the extra $4500+ in at least something like ing and get a bit back on your $$$, putting $6K into a computer is a huge waste of $$$.

and don't be afraid to upgrade when you need to. trying to build a futureproof machine in an enviornment that changes at least every 12mos is not good because no matter what, that gpu you spent $500 is now worth $150 on the for sale forums if you are lucky

Honest feedback doesn't make you sound like a dick. I was basing my budget on a maxed out Dell system and guessed you could do it for half and why I chose 3-6k. I haven't built a system before, since I always felt time was more valuable, but I thought it might be fun. I agree money into a computer isn't a good investment for sure. I could always just spring for a new 939 mobo and swap out the one I have now to hold me over.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: Venom 2099
I haven't built a system before, since I always felt time was more valuable, but I thought it might be fun. I agree money into a computer isn't a good investment for sure. I could always just spring for a new 939 mobo and swap out the one I have now to hold me over.

A 939 it is then. You just saved yourself thousands of dollars. :thumbsup::laugh:

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Venom 2099

Ok, well I have a decent budget, but that doesn't mean I want to waste money. I want to make sure I can run every thing at my full resolutions with all the eye candy and still get top notch performance.

1. So if Raid-0 is a dud is it still worth getting the 10k rpm drives?
2. Is it worth doing SLI at all, or will the single card technology move forward at a fast enough pace that it just makes sense to pop in the top card every 1-2 years?
3. If I don't do SLI should I then go with the intel X48 chipset and DDR3?
4. I hadn't really thought about getting a sata optical drive makes sense to me from a cabling perspective.
5. I haven't heard anything good about vista and all the game performance info I have seen shows it slower than 32 bit xp on same hardware.
6. I have also heard of people having quite a few problems with sound cards in vista.
7. Was basing the memory off of the review here about the DDR2 - 10000+ spec stuff

Thanks for the feedback so far!

1. As fast as 7200RPM drives are getting, I would say no. Some would disagree with me.
2. Don't bother with SLI as an upgrade path. Single-card performance progresses quickly enough.
3. No. Go with a solid P35 chipset board and DDR2.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Venom 2099

Originally posted by: bob4432

not trying to sound like a dick but it probably will, you sound kind of ignorant thinking you need to spend $6K on a gaming rig. i would think 1500 would be well more than enough.

you don't the kind of psu power you think, read around and see what actual rig draws are. in all reality, a 430W earthwattts will more than likely suffice, maybe go to 500-550W for a bit of "futureproofing" but you don't need 750 or 800W - plus the earthwatts are usually on some type of a rebate deal so you can get them cheap - usually the 380W for ~$20, the 430W for ~$30AR and the work very well.

m/b - you don't need a top of the line m/b to go fast or the newest chipset - the p35 based m/bs are running very good and can be had for ~$100

stay w/ ddr2 - $50-$70 for 2GB of decent stuff

cpu - up to you but w/ a gaming rig gpu is more important, hell a 6750 would be excellent and still leave you w/ o/c room

hdds - 1 raptor and then 1 larger 7.2k hdd

gpu - wait to see what nvidia is coming out w/. the new ones will probably run you $500 but they should be excellent based on their current role, but we don't know that yet, so i would wait on them as you will need some gpu power @ 1920x1080

there really is no benefit for moving to a sata optical drive just for the sake of the drive - imho a waste of $$$

i approach building machines different than you are thinking - computers, no matter what lose $$$, so why not get what you need that will do the job you need and not waste it. hell, put the extra $4500+ in at least something like ing and get a bit back on your $$$, putting $6K into a computer is a huge waste of $$$.

and don't be afraid to upgrade when you need to. trying to build a futureproof machine in an enviornment that changes at least every 12mos is not good because no matter what, that gpu you spent $500 is now worth $150 on the for sale forums if you are lucky

Honest feedback doesn't make you sound like a dick. I was basing my budget on a maxed out Dell system and guessed you could do it for half and why I chose 3-6k. I haven't built a system before, since I always felt time was more valuable, but I thought it might be fun. I agree money into a computer isn't a good investment for sure. I could always just spring for a new 939 mobo and swap out the one I have now to hold me over.

time is something that only you can put a $$$ amount on. for all i know you make $2-3M/yr and your time if extremely valueable and the $$ spent allows you to make more $$, don't know. fwiw, there is a possibility that you could get a bad stick of ram or a finicky m/b - this happen every so often, and there are sometimes issues even w/ the best picked out parts w/ the best gameplan, and that can take time to figure out and be frustrating.

imho i don't think going a 939 is the way to go, it is old and you would still need a new gpu for run the better games anyway - you will not save time doing this route. i am still on 939 as i don't need more cpu power atm, but if i were to build today if say my wife needed a new machine (she would get my old one) i would do a c2d setup - the bang for buck is extremely high right now for certain computer setups but with anything, going excessive kills the bang for buck.

and in regards to DSF's - 1. As fast as 7200RPM drives are getting, I would say no. Some would disagree with me. - there is a difference between fast and quick hdds. the raptor may not be the str king in the sata arena anymore but it is still the latency king, and this will result in a more snappy computing experience for the most part. i have used a faster, smaller main drive w/ a larger secondary data drive configuration for at least the past 5yrs and it is a recipe i won't change as it works very well. my current setup is a fujitsu max 15k 74GB main drive and a seagate 15k.5 300GB data drive, and regardless of what people say, these drives run very well - but i didn't pay anywhere near full price for them.

 

[angry hampster]

Originally posted by: DSF


1. As fast as 7200RPM drives are getting, I would say no. Some would disagree with me.
2. Don't bother with SLI as an upgrade path. Single-card performance progresses quickly enough.
3. No. Go with a solid P35 chipset board and DDR2.

I agree with you 100%. However, I do have faith in AMD's crossfire techonology. I think we'll see a lot more future support and top-notch scaling in CF configurations.

 

[MegaVovaN]

OP give us a hard number you're willing to lay out. Until then we are just wasting limited bytes in speculation!

 

[richwenzel]

here is a nice inexpensive high quality psu:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...ctCode=10006237&ps=hw4

gets very good reviews and has to be one of the best bargains in components today....


i got the 850w version for $70...not cause i needed that much power, but because its a very good power supply that is dirt cheap....(that deal is gone though)

good luck with your build.

 

[Venom 2099]

Ok, good feedback! Things to change:

1. I can go with a smaller PSU
2. Drop SLI, wait for nvidia 9xxx series
3. standard DDR2 800 ram
4. No RAID-0

Re: MegaVovan, budget is same just seems unnecessary to spend that much based on the feedback here, so the goal is to support the latest and greatest games with full eye candy at 1920x1080, upgrade parts as needed going forward.

Question for Bob, I do like the high rpm drives. The 15k fujitsu are SAS drives so you need hba for those correct? Are there any drives other than raptors that are 10k + and sata?

Still some question on the suitability of vista, does anyone have any current threads on vista driver support and game performance? Has that situation changed enough to de-throne XP as the gamers choice? There are hardly any DX10 only games out there.

 

[Blain]

Dude, I had such high hopes for you after reading your first post.
Now you've just become just another "tightwad player".

You went from building a "Gaming, lots of gaming", rig for "$3k-$6k" to dropping this and dropping that...

 

[Venom 2099]

Originally posted by: Blain
Dude, I had such high hopes for you after reading your first post.
Now you've just become just another "tightwad player".

You went from building a "Gaming, lots of gaming", rig for "$3k-$6k" to dropping this and dropping that...

hehehe, sorry to disappoint. If the money isn't going to deliver the top bang for the buck and is just hype why waste it. Who knows if the 9xxx series is fantastic maybe I will SLI two of those together. If my machine wasn't shitting on me now I would hold out a bit longer, as there is some nice up in coming tech (Nehalem). What if I put a window in, and some cold cathode tubes, maybe some fancy stickers ooh and a spoiler?

 

[Roguestar]

I have 18" alloy fins on all my case fans.

 

[bob4432]

i run u320 scsi drives, not sas as the $$ for the sas controllers are still quite high. i run mine in a 32bit pci slot so a u160 controller works fine even though it keeps my str and burst = @ around 96MB/s for the 15k.5 (this drives has a higher str, but 96 is good enough for me). also i buy refurbed drives -- they are cheap and work very well. between my 2 drives, controller card and cable i have less in the 2 of them than a single raptor x. also, if you go scsi people are going to have all these claims that the raptors are superior on the desktop, but when i have used friends of mine's computers that have raptors in them, the still seem a bit sluggish - but have the same overall specs. and it is not like a loyalty - imho my rig feels faster, if the raptor felt faster i would buy one of them. also i like the fujitsus as the main os/app drive - it seems to be better for a desktop than other scsi drives i have used including the 15k.5 (was the first perpendicular recording scsi drive and i think the first 15K 300GB scsi drive)

as far as sata, only wd has the 10k drives.

 

[richwenzel]

the cooler master real power pro 750w for $50

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2138338&enterthread=y

clubit is running a special on a 8800gts 512mb for $290

http://clubit.com/search.cfm?keyword=pny+8800&cat=all

however according to tomshardware ati moved up the 3870x2 card to jan. 23rd...rumors are $400ish, but that should be the king of the hill card (for now) and if you really wanted you can crossfire...

me, im more modest, building 2 systems...first is on a cooler master ammo (cost me $0 AR), cooler master extreme power 550w ($10 AR), 3850 512mb ($165 w/ free shipping), abit op35-3 $60, 2gb mushkin 4-5-4-11 800 $35, zerotherm btf92 OC $35, e8400 ($200ish, havent bought it yet), samsung optical $30, 500gb seagate 7200.11 $120, some extra fans ($15), for $670...

other system, xclio windtunnel ($70), cooler master real power pro 850w ($70), e8500 ($300ish havent bought yet)...and not sure on the mother board/ram yet, but this will have at least a 8800gts, i may take the plunge on ddr3 since you can get the super talen 1800 for $300 now....but that probably wont happen, ill probably keep costs low with a dfi blood iron, 4gb of geil esoteria 4-4-4-12...

if you really want top performance, for maybe not so much minimal gain...dfi lan party x48 when it comes out 8gb ddr 1800+ ram, etc....2 of the new nvidia or crossfire dual gpu cards....

 

[Venom 2099]

Well the last of my parts are supposed to be here on 4/4 then I get to put it all together. Here is what I ended up with:

Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Heatsink
Minebea NMB Silent IC Middle Series Fan - 64CFM, 27dba.
OCZ Silencer 750W Quad PSU
2- Plextor Internal CD/DVD RW Drive (PX810SASWBL)
2- HD 150G|WD 10K 16M SATA WD1500ADFD - OEM,
SDCD AUZENTECH|AZT-XFPRELUDE RT
CASE CM|RC-830-KKN3-GP BK
P5E3 PREMIUM/WIFI-AP
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 Processor
Patriot Dual Channel Viper 2048MB PC15000 DDR3 1866MHz
XFX 8800 GT 512Mb - PV-T88P-YFH4
THERMAL GREASE TUNIQ|TX-2

Did I economize? no. Could I have saved more? Yea. Am I excited and looking forward to putting it all together? YES! I figured I can upgrade the Video card when I need to to a 9 series later on down the road. I hope I can get this to 4.0Ghz on air, at least that will be my target.

Total damage after shipping & tax where applicable - $3,629.59